Is my website legal?

1hsleep

I'm working on a site that lists information from other sites. I'm making it because the current way of finding the information I want is difficult, I'm not planning to monetise or compete with anyone.

I want to list events, times and prices from about 20 other sites - no images or detailed content. I will also have a link to each site beside the information. And of course if I was requested to remove anything I would.

I've read about scraping and copyright, but I haven't found a clear answer. I'm listing basic information that's publicly available, like a directory, so is it just down to the discretion of each site I source?

Also, the info will be updated manually if that makes a difference.

Any help much appreciated.

L.Jenkins

Have you not contacted any of these sites to see their policy on sharing data?

1hsleep

I haven't. Two sites have T&Cs which prohibit taking content from the site, the rest don't.

Would a business not appreciate being listed for free on another site? I know asking them directly is probably common courtesy, but if I want to expand do I have to ask every new site I add?

Creamy Goodness

1hsleep wrote: »

I haven't. Two sites have T&Cs which prohibit taking content from the site, the rest don't.

Would a business not appreciate being listed for free on another site? I know asking them directly is probably common courtesy, but if I want to expand do I have to ask every new site I add?

You've answered your own question. As to them not appreciating their content on your site, no. You're stealing their content.

Graham

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You're stealing their content.

I wouldn't be convinced that listing events qualifies as stealing content.

OP, are these events organised by the other sites or are the other sites similar event listing sites?

1hsleep

Thanks for replies.

The events are organised by each individual site.

I was planning to list events, times and prices in an organised way, with a link to each site. I wasn't going to take more detailed content, like images or event descriptions. Would that be stealing content? I'm not sure where the line is drawn...

L.Jenkins

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't be convinced that listing events qualifies as stealing content.

OP, are these events organised by the other sites or are the other sites similar event listing sites?

If those events posted on another site, diverts traffic from the main site, resulting in a potential loss, then I foresee a problem.

Jack Killian

1hsleep wrote: »

Thanks for replies.

The events are organised by each individual site.

I was planning to list events, times and prices in an organised way, with a link to each site. I wasn't going to take more detailed content, like images or event descriptions. Would that be stealing content? I'm not sure where the line is drawn...

The events, times and prices ARE content.

If two sites explicitly prohibit it, I'd remove those.

And I'd then ask the others.

If any of them rely on advertising or traffic to their own site (even for their owners to justify someone maintaining a paid listing via view counts or other stats) you are adversely impacting on them.

Graham

Itzy wrote: »

If those events posted on another site, diverts traffic from the main site, resulting in a potential loss, then I foresee a problem.

On what basis? Has copyright been extended to cover a date and an event name recently?

Zillah

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You've answered your own question. As to them not appreciating their content on your site, no. You're stealing their content.

Them putting a note on their website doesn't mean it's illegal. I can put a sign up on my house forbidding anyone from taking a photo of it but that doesn't mean it becomes law.

I don't know about OP's question but the site in question having a notice on their page doesn't make it a fait accompli.

Jack Killian

Zillah wrote: »

Them putting a note on their website doesn't mean it's illegal. I can put a sign up on my house forbidding anyone from taking a photo of it but that doesn't mean it becomes law.

I don't know about OP's question but the site in question having a notice on their page doesn't make it a fait accompli.

I'd suggest looking up copyright law. Your comparison is in no way similar.

Graham

Jack Killian wrote: »

I'd suggest looking up copyright law. Your comparison is in no way similar.

Some “works” are too small or unoriginal to be protected as copyright works. For example, single words, names, titles, slogans and headlines are unlikely to be protected by copyright

Jack Killian

Graham wrote: »

Some “works” are too small or unoriginal to be protected as copyright works. For example, single words, names, titles, slogans and headlines are unlikely to be protected by copyright

In denying Power.com’s motion to dismiss the case, the Judge ruled that scraping can constitute copying, however momentary that copying may be. And because Facebook’s Terms of Service don’t allow for scraping, that act of copying constituted an infringement on Facebook’s copyright. With this decision, the waters regarding the legality of web scrapers began to shift in favor of the content creators.

Facebook posts are also too small to constitute traditional protected copyright works, however a judge upheld the Facebook T&Cs.

Graham

Jack Killian wrote: »

Facebook posts are also too small to constitute traditional protected copyright works, however a judge upheld the Facebook T&Cs.

The title of a Facebook post would probably have been copyrightable as an original literary work.

I'd be interested in a link to the case you mentioned.

Jack Killian

Graham wrote: »

The title of a Facebook post would probably have been copyrightable as an original literary work.

I'd be interested in a link to the case you mentioned.

http://blog.icreon.us/web-scraping-and-you-a-legal-primer-for-one-of-its-most-useful-tools/

Note that there is no equivalent of America's "fair-use" law in Ireland.

Zillah

Jack Killian wrote: »

I'd suggest looking up copyright law. Your comparison is in no way similar.

Their having a declaration on their website has exactly nothing to do with copyright. If they have copyright they have it automatically, declaration or no.

Graham

Jack Killian wrote: »

http://blog.icreon.us/web-scraping-and-you-a-legal-primer-for-one-of-its-most-useful-tools/

Note that there is no equivalent of America's "fair-use" law in Ireland.

What about insubstantial copying or fair dealing for reporting current events? The copyright association of Ireland appears to think both are permitted.

Jack Killian

Graham wrote: »

What about insubstantial copying or fair dealing for reporting current events? The copyright association of Ireland appears to think both are permitted.

The only reference in the law to any fair dealing concept is "....for research or private study".

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/28/enacted/en/print

Since the OP's scenario is neither, I didn't feel that caveat necessary.

1hsleep

Jack Killian wrote: »

The events, times and prices ARE content.

If two sites explicitly prohibit it, I'd remove those.

And I'd then ask the others.

If any of them rely on advertising or traffic to their own site (even for their owners to justify someone maintaining a paid listing via view counts or other stats) you are adversely impacting on them.

Thanks, I hadn't considered that.

Also wondering, if I have some information listed incorrectly - through error or not updating - could I held accountable? Would a disclaimer protect me?

Graham

Jack Killian wrote: »

The only reference in the law to any fair dealing concept is "....for research or private study".

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/28/enacted/en/print

Since the OP's scenario is neither, I didn't feel that caveat necessary.

The CAI don't appear to agree and given their board consists of half a dozen solicitors, a professor of law and a representative of the Irish Copyright Licensing Agency, I'd take some convincing they have it wrong.

Jack Killian

Graham wrote: »

The CAI don't appear to agree and given their board consists of half a dozen solicitors, a professor of law and a representative of the Irish Copyright Licensing Agency, I'd take some convincing they have it wrong.

No worries; not being argumentative either - I just tend to play it ultra-safe in these matters.

Sparks

Perhaps we should be even more conservative and not give out legal opinion on something we don't have the full facts on. There's a reason the legal discussion forum has that as one of the main rules of their forum...

OP: If you are worrying about the legality of your site, you probably need to ask a solicitor who works in this area. It will be far, far less costly to do that, than to have to defend yourself in court if you guess wrong.

jmcc

Graham wrote: »

On what basis? Has copyright been extended to cover a date and an event name recently?

It has been a while since I looked at this but there may arguably be database rights involved.

http://www.iftn.ie/legal/CopyrightLaw/

http://www.ivaro.ie/copyright

There was an EC directive on database rights transposed into Irish law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive

Regards...jmcc

Graham

jmcc wrote: »

It has been a while since I looked at this but there may arguably be database rights involved.

http://www.iftn.ie/legal/CopyrightLaw/

http://www.ivaro.ie/copyright

There was an EC directive on database rights transposed into Irish law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive

Regards...jmcc

Agreed, if the OP is obtaining a collection of similar data from a single source then database rights could be involved.

databases which, "by reason of the selection or arrangement of their contents, constitute the author's own intellectual creation" are protected by copyright as collections

I vaguely recall things like TV schedules, phone directories being subject to database rights.

With no idea of the volumes of events and the sources of the data it's hard to say whether it's likely to apply in this case.

jmcc

Graham wrote: »

Agreed, if the OP is obtaining a collection of similar data from a single source then database rights could be involved.

It could also get into the very messy area of derivative works if it is acting as an "aggregator".

With no idea of the volumes of events and the sources of the data it's hard to say whether it's likely to apply in this case.

Yep. Needs more data.

Apart from the sites that don't allow it under the T&C, the only problem may be SEO people who think all that links to a client's site are bad unless they create them.

Regards...jmcc

Talisman

1hsleep wrote: »

I'm working on a site that lists information from other sites. I'm making it because the current way of finding the information I want is difficult, I'm not planning to monetise or compete with anyone.

I want to list events, times and prices from about 20 other sites - no images or detailed content. I will also have a link to each site beside the information. And of course if I was requested to remove anything I would.

I've read about scraping and copyright, but I haven't found a clear answer. I'm listing basic information that's publicly available, like a directory, so is it just down to the discretion of each site I source?

Also, the info will be updated manually if that makes a difference.

Any help much appreciated.

From an SEO perspective the owners of the other websites might not be keen on your site linking to them. Google clamped down on such links in a search engine update a few years ago and now they are regarded as spam. All of the external links to the listings sites should have the rel="nofollow" attribute.

Are your links going to specific pages on the website from which you've taken the information or are they just going to a generic page e.g. the homepage?

If you are just linking to the homepage then the links will be flagged as spam by Google and sooner or later the people responsible for managing the SEO of those websites will be in touch. You can easily improve the quality of the website in this scenario. Add a page to your website with details about the website from which the listings information came, this page would contain a single link to their homepage. This approach would be better for the SEO performance of both websites.