How much money in rearing 150 calves?

Mirror game

OK, a fairly broad question so I'll outline the system and keep as standard as possible.

I'm asking:

If buying in whitehead calves (m&f) at 4-6wks old in early March and selling off grass at 20mths in mid October the following year, what kinda money would be in rearing 150 of um? so for most of the year you'd have 300, 150 calves and 150 yearlings.

and how much good quality land is needed?

I have 75 acres of good land and 30 of poor land, plenty of sheds for both calves and yearlings,
Small tractor with spreader, sprayer, topper, roller.

all silage and slurry would be done by contractors


up to now I've had most of farm rented out but.

I have reared a few since 2014 and the buying and selling costs have been steady enough.
2014 I bought 20 calves, in 2015 I got 25calves

I don't have figures to hand but there was no great variation from the following figures.
Calves coats €250 at 4-6 wks in mart (early march)
Sold for €1000 at 20mths old (€2 per kg early october)

One calf in twenty died while on milk (under 10wks)
only one weanling died over all for the last 2 years.
Other than the test, no vet call out( I understand that compared trials/studies these figures may be luck and if doing a lot of calves I'll have more problems)

I used Trovarx T, Ivomec super

I gave 1 kg ration per day until cattle went out to grass €9 for 25kg bag

I had them inside on bales for 4mths

Mirror game

Also, anyone have an idea of how much silage needed?

Last winter I was giving 25 cattle a bale a day but the weren't finishing it. (they were also getting meal)

going on that I reckon that 850 fusion bales would see me through a 150 day winter. Does that seem right?

Good loser

That's a very, very serious jump in numbers. Disease pressure for a start would intensify. Then the capital invested would increase by 4 times - for stock and feed. A TB failure would be a risk factor. The fencing would want to be good.

The 100 acres should carry that number at high Nitrogen.
Are you sure about your shed capacity?

I only get 1100/1200 for 26/30 mth HER/AA. I find they stay small.

kerryjack

Have you considered contract rearing dairy stock or has that ship sailed ,hope you have a good eye for a calf because buying that amont of calves your inevitable going to buy some rubbish ones you are going to lose some and its always the good ones that crook it, you need descent sheds, certainly worth having a go but sourcing good calves at farm gate is the key to your success.

Sam Kade

Would weanling to finishing fewer cattle be less hassle?

freedominacup

It's a few years ago but we used to buy ho bull calves for €50-€100. Finish them around 370-380kg at 18-20 months. With the low buying price and getting them out at odd times of the year when more conventional systems weren't producing big numbers of prime cattle we used to do fairly well out of them.

Top quality silage is a must. Concentrate only rations will break you. A good rotational grazing system taking surpluses off as bales as soon as they appear and keeping grass quality excellent at the same time will be vital for performance.

You'll never have 150 calves the same and you'd probably be foolish to try. If you're buying two week old calves I think I'd be using my twenty calf system and moving them through it. The capacity to take In and rear 150 calves in one batch will be expensive and then be sitting idle for ten months per year. Batches of thirty every two weeks from mid Jan to mid Mar would be easier to finance and manage.

20silkcut

freedominacup wrote: »

It's a few years ago but we used to buy ho bull calves for €50-€100. Finish them around 370-380kg at 18-20 months. With the low buying price and getting them out at odd times of the year when more conventional systems weren't producing big numbers of prime cattle we used to do fairly well out of them.

Top quality silage is a must. Concentrate only rations will break you. A good rotational grazing system taking surpluses off as bales as soon as they appear and keeping grass quality excellent at the same time will be vital for performance.

You'll never have 150 calves the same and you'd probably be foolish to try. If you're buying two week old calves I think I'd be using my twenty calf system and moving them through it. The capacity to take In and rear 150 calves in one batch will be expensive and then be sitting idle for ten months per year. Batches of thirty every two weeks from mid Jan to mid Mar would be easier to finance and manage.

Yes I would agree anything over 20 calves at a time is murder.
I would never spend more than €100 per week on Milk replacer.

Miname

20silkcut wrote: »

Yes I would agree anything over 20 calves at a time is murder.
I would never spend more than €100 per week on Milk replacer.

2.4 bags might rear 20 jersey but you wouldn't be spoiling friesains with that mix. Throw in a bit of creep and I'd say at 100 euro you'd rear maybe 12.

20silkcut

Miname wrote: »

2.4 bags might rear 20 jersey but you wouldn't be spoiling friesains with that mix. Throw in a bit of creep and I'd say at 100 euro you'd rear maybe 12.

That's what I am rearing 12 Hex bull calves.

blackdog1

freedominacup wrote:

You'll never have 150 calves the same and you'd probably be foolish to try. If you're buying two week old calves I think I'd be using my twenty calf system and moving them through it. The capacity to take In and rear 150 calves in one batch will be expensive and then be sitting idle for ten months per year. Batches of thirty every two weeks from mid Jan to mid Mar would be easier to finance and manage.

Agree with everything you say except I'd buy autumn bull calves. I used to finish them at 15 months with only 1 winter inside getting fed. Used to average €780 a piece in the factory with some spring ones mixed in and have had pure holstein cattle make up to €950 at 15 months. All bullocks. Also killing them when no one else is.

Lady lou

Everyone that has posted on this said they USED to do this.!
What are you's all doing now instead?

Lady lou

Miname wrote: »

2.4 bags might rear 20 jersey but you wouldn't be spoiling friesains with that mix. Throw in a bit of creep and I'd say at 100 euro you'd rear maybe 12.

I thought the rule was a bag and half per calf.?

20silkcut

Lady lou wrote: »

Everyone that has posted on this said they USED to do this.!
What are you's all doing now instead?

I'm doing it. Not at the level of the OP mind you. If you have the time and an off farm job or other enterprise it is viable.

20silkcut

freedominacup wrote: »

It's a few years ago but we used to buy ho bull calves for €50-€100. Finish them around 370-380kg at 18-20 months. With the low buying price and getting them out at odd times of the year when more conventional systems weren't producing big numbers of prime cattle we used to do fairly well out of them.

Top quality silage is a must. Concentrate only rations will break you. A good rotational grazing system taking surpluses off as bales as soon as they appear and keeping grass quality excellent at the same time will be vital for performance.

You'll never have 150 calves the same and you'd probably be foolish to try. If you're buying two week old calves I think I'd be using my twenty calf system and moving them through it. The capacity to take In and rear 150 calves in one batch will be expensive and then be sitting idle for ten months per year. Batches of thirty every two weeks from mid Jan to mid Mar would be easier to finance and manage.

Rearing 30 calves would be over €300 a week on €45 a bag milk replacer.
There is cheaper milk replacer at €35-36 a bag. I think you would have to buy this stuff in bulk to make it work.
Is there any cheaper stuff to be got??

Sam Kade

20silkcut wrote: »

Rearing 30 calves would be over €300 a week on €45 a bag milk replacer.
There is cheaper milk replacer at €35-36 a bag. I think you would have to buy this stuff in bulk to make it work.
Is there any cheaper stuff to be got??

With big numbers cheap milk replacer could cost more.

Sam Kade

I know a man that rears 120 fr bull calves in spring with hired help at calf rearing. He says it pays the bills and you wouldn't go mad on it. Before milk quotas were abolished he used to buy over quota milk from over quota farmers.

freedominacup

Lady lou wrote: »

Everyone that has posted on this said they USED to do this.!
What are you's all doing now instead?

Dairying. The bull calves went a long way towards financing the dairy stock. Calves and cattle went to mad money in 2011 and dairy stock were relatively cheap. Completely mad really. When we were buying these calves in the mid to late noughties we used to attract some very strange looks around the ring as we were buying what no one else other than exporters would touch. A couple of years later every fcuker thought he could pay €100-€150 more for these calves and make a fortune with no facilities or experience.

Sam Kade

freedominacup wrote: »

Dairying. The bull calves went a long way towards financing the dairy stock. Calves and cattle went to mad money in 2011 and dairy stock were relatively cheap. Completely mad really. When we were buying these calves in the mid to late noughties we used to attract some very strange looks around the ring as we were buying what no one else other than exporters would touch. A couple of years later every fcuker thought he could pay €100-€150 more for these calves and make a fortune with no facilities or experience.

There was a man around here that was delighted to get jex calves for nothing, he was so delighted that he decided to pay a tenner for each calf. He never before reared calves and thought that he would make a fortune out of them. He lost almost 2/3 of them before they were reared and tried to sell the rest but nobody wanted them.

20silkcut

If you bought a jersey calf for €2 what sort of money would it come in to after 2 years. Would you get €200 for it??

FineFilly

I know a lad selling milk replacer cheaper,he may also sell it in bulk from his yar,all legit

Sam Kade

20silkcut wrote: »

If you bought a jersey calf for €2 what sort of money would it come in to after 2 years. Would you get €200 for it??

A full Jersey? Feck all I"d say. Even though there are homesteaders in the U.S. That keep a jersey cow for domestic milk and if they have a bull calf they'll kill it for the freezer at 12 months old and they say it's the best beef flavour wise.

Bullocks

freedominacup wrote: »

Dairying. The bull calves went a long way towards financing the dairy stock. Calves and cattle went to mad money in 2011 and dairy stock were relatively cheap. Completely mad really. When we were buying these calves in the mid to late noughties we used to attract some very strange looks around the ring as we were buying what no one else other than exporters would touch. A couple of years later every fcuker thought he could pay €100-€150 more for these calves and make a fortune with no facilities or experience.

Do ye do any beef since getting into milk or would you be tempted to go again if milk price stays low for awhile

freedominacup

Bullocks wrote: »

Do ye do any beef since getting into milk or would you be tempted to go again if milk price stays low for awhile

We had cattle until around two years ago. Stocked at just over 2 last year across all ground. At 2.7 this year with just cows and dairy young stock. No room on the land or in the buildings for them. If we took on a square of ground with buildings Id look at then again for a while until new ground was fully stocked. Them and spring barley for wholecrop and to facilitate reseeding.

Base price

Mirror game wrote: »

OK, a fairly broad question so I'll outline the system and keep as standard as possible.

I'm asking:

If buying in whitehead calves (m&f) at 4-6wks old in early March and selling off grass at 20mths in mid October the following year, what kinda money would be in rearing 150 of um? so for most of the year you'd have 300, 150 calves and 150 yearlings.

and how much good quality land is needed?

I have 75 acres of good land and 30 of poor land, plenty of sheds for both calves and yearlings,
Small tractor with spreader, sprayer, topper, roller.

all silage and slurry would be done by contractors


up to now I've had most of farm rented out but.

I have reared a few since 2014 and the buying and selling costs have been steady enough.
2014 I bought 20 calves, in 2015 I got 25calves

I don't have figures to hand but there was no great variation from the following figures.
Calves coats €250 at 4-6 wks in mart (early march)
Sold for €1000 at 20mths old (€2 per kg early october)

One calf in twenty died while on milk (under 10wks)
only one weanling died over all for the last 2 years.
Other than the test, no vet call out( I understand that compared trials/studies these figures may be luck and if doing a lot of calves I'll have more problems)

I used Trovarx T, Ivomec super

I gave 1 kg ration per day until cattle went out to grass €9 for 25kg bag

I had them inside on bales for 4mths

OP there is a world of difference between rearing 20-25 calves and rearing 150. As freediom said you will be swamped not only from the workload but also from the dangers of diseases/infections/pneumonia etc.
There are saving due to economies of scale - milk powder, vaccines, boluses but costs escalate rapidly too.
Unless you have time, patience, excellent hygiene practices and shed ventilation and a good vet on standby I would not suggest jumping in too big initially. Also access to cheap straw is a must when dealing with numbers of calves.

Markcheese

20silkcut wrote:

If you bought a jersey calf for €2 what sort of money would it come in to after 2 years. Would you get €200 for it??

There was an article recently on agriland that reckoned jersey cross were the most profitable calf to beef... because the calf was cheap... took lads a while to get used to boney ass holsteins bull calves but again they were cheap..

Base price

Markcheese wrote: »

There was an article recently on agriland that reckoned jersey cross were the most profitable calf to beef... because the calf was cheap... took lads a while to get used to boney ass holsteins bull calves but again they were cheap..

Didn't read the article. Did they mention anything about keeping JEx bulls entire to slaughter?

mf240

20silkcut wrote: »

If you bought a jersey calf for €2 what sort of money would it come in to after 2 years. Would you get €200 for it??

You could be better off putting you two euros in the credit union.

Sam Kade

Base price wrote: »

Didn't read the article. Did they mention anything about keeping JEx bulls entire to slaughter?

I bought jex calves and kept them entire when they went to the factory they turned on one another in the pen, ended up breaking even with them.