Building a log cabin onsite before full house build

rolox

Hi Guys,

This is my first post in this forum so mods please feel free to move it is inappropriate.

So basically my situation is this

I have a 0.3 acre site in my name and €50,000 as a deposit for a house.

At the moment I do not satisfy the requirements to get a mortgage as I have not been in permanent employment for a year. When I do satisfy this requirement I am not sure that my income level will be sufficient to build the home that I would like.

What I want to do, but I am not sure if it is possible, is to build a log cabin/prefab home type building at the back of the site and then in the future as my career progresses/savings increase build a full home on the site.

I wish to retain the small dwelling after the new build is complete. I have a link to the type of house I want to build but I am not sure if the link is allowed here.

I have costed this at about €22,000 for a fully habitable albeit small house at 25m2 and feel that I can save this money back in about 1.5 years of having no rent and then increase my saving potential hugely.

What I would really like to know is:

Is this possible, would planners allow this? has anybody done anything like this before?

Are there things I am missing here? I definitely think there is as I am only starting my research into this.

I would really appreciate any help or feedback, good or bad on this as I feel it would be a great idea, but I also feel that I am missing some important points that might make it far less attractive then I imagine.

BryanF

Whats is the zoning ? Ie will you be eligible for plannin?
Do you need waste treatment unit? Or is there mains? .3 acres sounds tight for waste treatment.
Typically planners don't like temp structures.

rolox

Hi,

Thanks for the reply! The land is zoned for residential.

There is no mains connection for waste.

I was hoping on retaining the structure, as it will be fully habitable. So it wouldn't necessarily be temporary.

Google "tiny homes Ireland" these are the type of thing I was thinking of.

Was hoping to live in it for a few years and keeping it once the house was completed.

Water John

Some building on a site, put in a mobile home. I presume if you want to do things 'by the book' you could get temporary 24 month planning on that.
Others build the garage/store shed first. This is usually to keep the tools on site from being stolen. Others again land a steel container on site.

Put in a planning app that includes the dwelling and garage. I think you could put up the 'garage' first. What use you might make of it over the first few years, I couldn't imagine. Build house over the following few years. Planning is usually of 5 year duration.

BryanF

I'll rephrase,

Read the local development. Hire an arch, eng or planning consultant. Approach the planners.

Tiny houses need planning, waste treatment, sight lines/ entrance, oh and must meet Irish building regulations.

In the next thread there will be a guy building a mc'mansion that's 1million sqft - the same planning legislation applies. What you are asking is 'can I build a house, then ms/mr planner when I can afford it, I want to build a bigger house' - the very best you can hope for is the planners will state the first dwelling will need to be returned to a garage or demolished prior to occupation of the actual house.

Birdie Num Num

Hi Rolex, Can't be much help but thinking of something similar to your build. Is it possible to see the link you have or can you direct me to it somehow? Thanks

rolox

Thanks guys,

So basically what I think you are saying is:

For the tiny house - I will need planning permission. Built to building regs etc

To build the larger dwelling - I will planning permission, built to building regs etc and I will have to change the use of smaller dwelling to a garage, or knock it or something else according to what the planners want.

Would that be a good estimation?

So basically what I need to do now is consult an architect/engineer, get a professional opinion and approach the planners?

Also would there be any case for leaving the smaller dwelling as a habitable structure rather than changing it to a garage in yer opinion? Or do you think that is probably a no go area?

EDIT: sent PM Birdie

Metric Tensor

The first thing to check is if your plot of land is big enough to be considered a site in the county in which you are based.

I know for sure in both Galway and Mayo 0.3 acres is not a big enough site for an effluent treatment system and hence you can't build on one unless there is a public sewer connection.

It could be that you don't have a site to start with in which case all the other plans are premature.

Gumbo

rolox wrote: »

Thanks guys,

So basically what I think you are saying is:

For the tiny house - I will need planning permission. Built to building regs etc

To build the larger dwelling - I will planning permission, built to building regs etc and I will have to change the use of smaller dwelling to a garage, or knock it or something else according to what the planners want.

Would that be a good estimation?

So basically what I need to do now is consult an architect/engineer, get a professional opinion and approach the planners?

Also would there be any case for leaving the smaller dwelling as a habitable structure rather than changing it to a garage in yer opinion? Or do you think that is probably a no go area?

EDIT: sent PM Birdie

I don't think any of that will be a runner to be honest.

rolox

Metric Tensor wrote:

The first thing to check is if your plot of land is big enough to be considered a site in the county in which you are based.

I know for sure in both Galway and Mayo 0.3 acres is not a big enough site for an effluent treatment system and hence you can't build on one unless there is a public sewer connection.

It could be that you don't have a site to start with in which case all the other plans are premature.

The site is in Mayo, and just outside of the range of the public sewer system!

Does that mean that I have no hope of getting permission for any type of building on the site?

That would be a massive disappointment....

Metric Tensor

No hope of any permission for a house that includes an on-site effluent treatment system. You need to get on that sewer - and even then the odds are not good if the location is rural.

rolox

Ok, Thank you very much for all your help!

One final question I hope you can help me with and this might be my only hope! Can 2 houses share an effluent treatment system?

My uncle has a 0.5 acre site adjacent to my 0.3 acre site. He is in the process of a planning application on his own site.

Would I be able to share in his system since my site is too small to accommodate it? Or does each independent dwelling need a dedicated system?

Water John

You would certainly need to have a wayleave to it to have any chance.
Technically, this would constitute a Group Sewerage Scheme.
I have seen two family members with two houses, set up a Group water Scheme to bore a well and put in a pump.

rolox

So basically at this point I should really be focusing on finding out if it is possible to set up a group sewerage scheme with my uncle in order to see if I have any hope of building on my site at all.

Who do I contact about this? The council?

Also I assume I would have to get the site assessment done for both sites if it is even allowable for us to share the waste system.

Is there any thing else I am missing here guys? I really appreciate all of the help!

JimmyMW

rolox wrote: »

So basically at this point I should really be focusing on finding out if it is possible to set up a group sewerage scheme with my uncle in order to see if I have any hope of building on my site at all.

Who do I contact about this? The council?

Also I assume I would have to get the site assessment done for both sites if it is even allowable for us to share the waste system.

Is there any thing else I am missing here guys? I really appreciate all of the help!

You need to approach a professional architect to go through all of this with you, and if it has a hope of getting planning s/he will be able to give you a fair idea. Then approach the planning department with your architect with your proposal in a pre-planning meeting.

Angry bird

Site size may well be too small, councils are not fans of shared effluent systems. Ring up the council and seek a pre planning meeting about your options. For me, they may consider a temporary permission for the log cabin and once main house built, to convert it to a garage. But your local planner is the one to be talking to.

Metric Tensor

It is possible. But essentially what you are proposing is a very small housing estate. It would be most likely to work if you apply for the two houses and associated services in one planning application.

I still think it's a very long shot though! You need to get a consultant on board and organise a pre planning meeting and also maybe a chat with the sanitary services section of the council.

rolox

Ok guys, following some phone calls to the council. (0.3 acre not an option, basically really don't like the shared effluent idea.)

An incredibly generous family member has offered to increase the size of my site to 0.5 acre from a potion of their land.

So I am hoping that will be enough to sort out the waste system issue.

So if I decide to go ahead with my log cabin idea, do ye think there are other issues that I am neglecting here?



There most definately is, as the last few posts have brought to light!

Metric Tensor

Hi rolox - I think in Mayo you need 0.75 acres for a new build in the countryside.

Go to the attached link and download file number 2 - then the details are on Page 7.

http://www.mayococo.ie/en/Planning/MayoCountyDevelopmentPlan2014-2020/

Basically in a rural area you will only get away with a half acre site if there is an existing structure on the site to be reused or if you are clustering with an existing farmyard/house development.

rolox

When I called the council earlier they guy I spoke to told me basically that 0.3 acre was never going to happen and that 0.5 was the minimum.

Obviously this was only a phone call and not in a full official capacity.

Anecdotally my uncles planning application, on 0.5 acre seems to be going OK with just a couple of conditions related to widening the road etc.

So I am hoping that the 0.5 acre mark might cut it!

But I now have the problem regarding my tiny home/upgrade in the future. Once you solve problem 1 you find 2 more!

EDIT: There are also quite a few houses in close enough proximity on a quiet country cul-de-sac. I wonder does that count as "clustering with other developments"

Metric Tensor

rolox wrote: »

EDIT: There are also quite a few houses in close enough proximity on a quiet country cul-de-sac. I wonder does that count as "clustering with other developments"

It might just do. Your uncles will set a precedent next door anyway. If he gets away with half an acre you probably will too.

Edit: To add - I think the best option in this regard is to apply to build something small that can be converted to a garage in future.

rolox

I wonder, if our initial residence could be classed an office/work space following erection of the main dwelling.

My partner works in a service industry and could use the smaller dwelling as a studio or workplace environment.

Does the external dwelling need be a garage, or can it be an office/place of business. Albeit limited business?

Metric Tensor

You need planning for business activities.

You may be allowed have a studio/home office as an amenity to the main house - but typically that would not involve paying customers coming to your partner's office.