New Wheels - How True is True?

gaffmaster

I just had a set of Superstar Components ARC CX-RAYs delivered.

Currently setting them up and checking for truth/trueness. I noticed a very slight wobble in the rims when I spin the wheels.

The front seems to wobble in and out of the brake pads a tiny bit (not a flat disc).
The rear seems to wobble up and down (not a true circle).

These tolerances are pretty small (eyeballing it looks to be up to a millimeter.)

So I'm wondering if I need to send them back, ride them, or attempt to correct the issues myself (I don't have a wheel truing stand)?!
What would you do?

Cheers.

doozerie

One perspective from someone who seems well regarded as a wheelbuilder, Roger Musson, is that lateral trueness (side to side) should be within 0.2mm and radial trueness (up/down) should be within 0.5mm (and dish of the wheel should be within 1mm, which is 0.5mm either side). He suggests that these are the maximum gaps you should see to the point you are referencing against. He does makes the very valid point though that 100% accuracy is impossible and that a wheel which maintains its trueness is better than one which starts out “perfect” and degrades quickly from there, basically it’s not an exact science.

I’ve been building wheels for years, I am entirely an amateur but even I wouldn’t consider a wheel with a lateral/radial kick of 1mm to be adequate. I don’t build wheels for other people, but if I did I’d consider myself a fraud if I were to hand over, let alone sell, a wheel that was out by as much as that. It gets trickier to adjust the more true the wheel gets so eliminating those last kicks can be time consuming, so it would be very tempting for someone building a wheel to just call a halt to the process before they really should.

If the rim is really out by as much as 1mm in any direction then I’d send it back. Don’t try to adjust it yourself, as soon as you do you’ll void any warranty. I’d encourage anyone to tackle a problem with a used wheel themselves but a brand new wheel should be ready to go as soon as you receive it and I just wouldn’t accept one that wasn’t.

So I’d suggest measuring how far out it really is, compare with the figures above, and then decide whether you are happy to live with it.

gaffmaster

Great response doozerie, thanks a million.

greenspurs

I agree....
I would contact them straight away. Let them know that youre not happy, and that you want to return them (thats what i would do wheely ...) ...

gaffmaster

UPDATE!

I contacted Superstar Components who were very accommodating. They immediately sent me a UPS return label. So I returned the wheels and ordered new ones separately in order to have them before the weekend just past. They told me over the phone that they'd check the new set were indeed true before shipping them.

When the new set arrived, they were indeed a lot more true than the previous pair, but now after riding on them once, the front seems to have developed a slight wobble (up to one millimeter - again, eyeballing it, I don't have measurement tools that accurate). And the back one also seems less true than it started out.

It's a shame as they felt very comfortable and accelerated very nicely.

I'll contact them again and see what they advise me to do.

greenspurs

jeez,
Is it unlucky or a bad of a poor set of wheels for that to happen?
I think i would get a refund, and buy a set elsewhere?

mp31

gaffmaster wrote: »

UPDATE!
When the new set arrived, they were indeed a lot more true than the previous pair, but now after riding on them once, the front seems to have developed a slight wobble (up to one millimeter - again, eyeballing it, I don't have measurement tools that accurate). And the back one also seems less true than it started out.

Can you tell when riding the bike that the wheels have developed a slight wobble - if not then why worry about it.

Earlier this year, a spoke broke on my back wheel causing a buckle large enough for the tyre to jam against the chainstay and stop the wheel from turning. I had to do a roadside emergency wheel true-up in order to reduce the buckle so that I could get to work. There was still a 5mm wobble but it was enough for me to get to work. In fact, I ended up using the same wheel as-is for almost a week and I didn't notice anything whilst riding and the wheel didn't get any worse.

If you don't notice the wobble then I'd say keep riding - or have a go at trueing up the wheel - it's not that hard doing it whilst it's still on the bike. If the wobble gets much worse then contact the supplier...otherwise just enjoy riding with the new wheels.

gaffmaster

mp31 wrote: »

Can you tell when riding the bike that the wheels have developed a slight wobble - if not then why worry about it.

Yeah I don't notice it while riding. So it's probably nothing to worry about. I've asked Superstar Components what I should do. If they say the tolerances I'm experiencing are nothing to worry about, I'll be happy to keep going on them.

I just find it odd, as I have wheels with thousands more kilometers on them that run truer. They're also heavier... so maybe that's the payoff?!

You must keep a spoke key with you mp31? Don't tell me I need to start carrying one of those as well as everything else!

Konkers

mp31 wrote: »

Can you tell when riding the bike that the wheels have developed a slight wobble - if not then why worry about it.

Earlier this year, a spoke broke on my back wheel causing a buckle large enough for the tyre to jam against the chainstay and stop the wheel from turning. I had to do a roadside emergency wheel true-up in order to reduce the buckle so that I could get to work. There was still a 5mm wobble but it was enough for me to get to work. In fact, I ended up using the same wheel as-is for almost a week and I didn't notice anything whilst riding and the wheel didn't get any worse.

If you don't notice the wobble then I'd say keep riding - or have a go at trueing up the wheel - it's not that hard doing it whilst it's still on the bike. If the wobble gets much worse then contact the supplier...otherwise just enjoy riding with the new wheels.

I'm not sure I'd agree. As someone who bought a set of custom wheels a few years ago from a well known website that were not within the sensible limits advised by Doozerie above, never had the benefit of that advice (unfortunately), took the levels of imperfection to be "normal" and then had further problems with them, with the benefit of hindsight, I would return them. Why take the risk?

harringtonp

gaffmaster wrote: »

UPDATE!

I contacted Superstar Components who were very accommodating. They immediately sent me a UPS return label. So I returned the wheels and ordered new ones separately in order to have them before the weekend just past. They told me over the phone that they'd check the new set were indeed true before shipping them.

When the new set arrived, they were indeed a lot more true than the previous pair, but now after riding on them once, the front seems to have developed a slight wobble (up to one millimeter - again, eyeballing it, I don't have measurement tools that accurate). And the back one also seems less true than it started out.

It's a shame as they felt very comfortable and accelerated very nicely.

I'll contact them again and see what they advise me to do.

Did you ring or email them ? Tried ringing 00448454758338 (not found) and 004408454758338 (decline) but no joy. If you rang don't suppose you have the exact number you dialed ?

Have 2 wheels want to get back to them but would like to see they'll fix them under warranty first.

gaffmaster

harringtonp wrote: »

Did you ring or email them ? Tried ringing 00448454758338 (not found) and 004408454758338 (decline) but no joy. If you rang don't suppose you have the exact number you dialed ?

Have 2 wheels want to get back to them but would like to see they'll fix them under warranty first.

I called them on [+44](0)845 475 8338 - but I called from London, where I'm living at the moment. If you tried calling yesterday, it was a bank holiday Monday so they might not have been working.

magicbastarder

mp31 wrote: »

Can you tell when riding the bike that the wheels have developed a slight wobble - if not then why worry about it.

because if they're not true when brand spanking new, it might not bode well for the future.

Macy0161

gaffmaster wrote: »

You must keep a spoke key with you mp31? Don't tell me I need to start carrying one of those as well as everything else!

Your multi tool might already have one. I have had to do some semblance of trueing on the go a few times (more so when I was heavier), so just assumed an option was an essential for the saddle bag tbh?

mp31

gaffmaster wrote: »

Yeah I don't notice it while riding. So it's probably nothing to worry about. I've asked Superstar Components what I should do. If they say the tolerances I'm experiencing are nothing to worry about, I'll be happy to keep going on them.

I just find it odd, as I have wheels with thousands more kilometers on them that run truer. They're also heavier... so maybe that's the payoff?!

You must keep a spoke key with you mp31? Don't tell me I need to start carrying one of those as well as everything else!

I carry a multi-tool with a spoke key built into it.

I'd keep an eye on the wobble and contact Superstar if it gets much worse.

harringtonp

gaffmaster wrote: »

I called them on [+44](0)845 475 8338 - but I called from London, where I'm living at the moment. If you tried calling yesterday, it was a bank holiday Monday so they might not have been working.

0845 is a surcharge number and I'm being blocked from here, email so.

http://www.area-codes.org.uk/0845-numbers.php

MediaMan

I think that the time you are most going to notice lateral deviations is when braking. If the wheel is braking smoothly, and there is no other adverse affects when cycling the bike, I would be inclined to live with it.

But that's me, if it's bugging you then I'd either bring the wheels to a mechanic who's good with wheels to have them checked, or send them back.