Looking to be self-employed retaining some sort of benefit

ToneW

Hi there!!

I've been unemployed for a while, but have recently discovered I can make a small bit of an income on my own. This would probably average between 40-100 euro a week. I was wondering if there was any option available for someone like me who no longer needs a full jobseekers payment but can't really sustain themselves on the small living they can earn. All I can really see is the back-to-enterprise option, which seems very complicated and also seems to have limited spaces so only very few can be accepted.
I'm also a bit worried about disclosing my previous income, what I mean by that is that I only discovered recently due to the last several months records that it's actually possible I can continue earning this much for at least the short to medium term future. It seems a bit of a Catch-22 situation from what I've read about options available to me, I can either not disclose which is a bad move or disclose and lose my payment and have to become a small business owner with no support and maybe have to repay the profit I've made which has all been put back into the venture. I feel like I might be punished for trying to branch out into a new challenge.
It'd be great if there was a system set up similar to the part-time work scheme but you can't be your own boss on that for some reason.

I'd appreciate any opinions on the matter!!!

Mrs OBumble

Are you on jobseekers, or some other benefit. If Jobseekers, then you need to be available for full time work.

ToneW

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are you on jobseekers, or some other benefit. If Jobseekers, then you need to be available for full time work.

Jobseekers, but lately I've been spending a lot of time on what I have been doing as I feel it could potentially become my livelihood. Is full-time work defined as a certain amount of income made or is it the amount of hours spent in the workplace? I could probably define how much time I will spend on it in the future as full-time if I could commit to it, but unfortunately I probably wouldn't earn the equivalent of a 39+ hour week on minimum wage in that time if that's what it means.

wokingvoter

Are you available to turn up to a full time job at very short notice? That's the criteria

ToneW

wokingvoter wrote: »

Are you available to turn up to a full time job at very short notice? That's the criteria

Sorry I don't understand your post.

njs030

ToneW wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand your post.

To get jobseekers allowance you have to be available for full time work.
That to me would imply work that pays enough to stop you needing jobseekers allowance but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
If you're not available for full time work then you're not entitled to JA.

ToneW

notjustsweet wrote: »

To get jobseekers allowance you have to be available for full time work.
That to me would imply work that pays enough to stop you needing jobseekers allowance but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
If you're not available for full time work then you're not entitled to JA.

Ok, sorry about that. I know the rules around claiming jobseekers allowance as l'm on it, I probably should've made that clearer.
Thanks for answering my question, if that's the way it is I guess I'm driving up a dead end, unless I consider applying for the enterprise scheme. I suppose it wouldn't do any harm.

eastbono

You can commence self employment and continue to receive JA. You will need to notify your local office that you are starting and they will review your means and assess any means from self employment. You will continue to sign on every month (presuming this is the case in your office) and you will have a category of self employment put on your JA claim.

Musicman2000

eastbono wrote: »

You can commence self employment and continue to receive JA. You will need to notify your local office that you are starting and they will review your means and assess any means from self employment. You will continue to sign on every month (presuming this is the case in your office) and you will have a category of self employment put on your JA claim.

This post is the correct information . They will review your income every year so basically bank account statements for the last 6 months , and your earnings from self employment normally your self assessments from revenue . And they will calculate your means from that.

You still need to prove you are looking for full time work. It is an unusual system as you are working for yourself but then your not full time.

ToneW

Interesting. Yes signing is every month. Would I still have to collect my payment at the Post Office every week in that situation?

The assessment part is where it seems muddled. My bank records wouldn't show a whole lot of income and it seems amusing to me that the other records to assess would be my own personal accounts. It seems like it would be pretty easy to just falsify that information in order to achieve a more positive assessment financially. Obviously I'm not attempting to be deceptive as I wouldn't start a thread like this otherwise. Are there any exemptions or extra taxes from particular fields of employment? This would be based in trading and investments.

Thanks for all your knowledge and advice, very good of you. :-)

eastbono

You payment would still be in the post office every week. You will probably meet with an inspector and they will gauge how much you hope to earn from self employment in your first year and this is the figure that will be used for means against your claim. You will have to keep accounts so that the inspector could do a more detailed assessment after say 6-12 months. At the beginning the inspector may deem you with nil means and may ask for a review after you have been self employed for 6 months.

ToneW

Thanks for all that Eastbono, you're very helpful. I'll have to get my accounts in order and arrange an appointment in the week!

njs030

Have you been doing this work and claiming full benefit? If so you will have to pay back any prepayment.

hairyslug

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Short-Term-Enterprise-Allowance.aspx

Have a look at the above link, if your plan is approved, you can keep your benefits for up to 9 months while getting a business up and running

ToneW

hairyslug wrote: »

Have a look at the above link, if your plan is approved, you can keep your benefits for up to 9 months while getting a business up and running

I can't apply for that as I am on Jobseekers allowance, not benefit.

notjustsweet wrote: »

Have you been doing this work and claiming full benefit? If so you will have to pay back any prepayment.

Yes I have, would you know at what kind of rate I would have to pay it back?

njs030

ToneW wrote: »

I can't apply for that as I am on Jobseekers allowance, not benefit.



Yes I have, would you know at what kind of rate I would have to pay it back?

You are going to have to explain why you were claiming and earning money on the side without declaring it. You should have declared it from day one.

ToneW

notjustsweet wrote: »

You are going to have to explain why you were claiming and earning money on the side without declaring it. You should have declared it from day one.

I didn't make any money on day one, I lost money. I lost money initially and almost stopped. The first day I made any money I hadn't made any income because of previous losses. When things began to go well I did do some research and the most relevant thing I could find was the back to enterprise scheme which I didn't think I had a chance of getting or believed I could even succeed with if I got it. I obviously didn't look hard enough for the information that you presented me with. Is there any chance you could link me that so I can get the official explanation of what I'll have to go through?

I should of started a thread here earlier or went and asked the Citizens Advice or the Welfare office itself, but I thought there was a good chance I was going to lose my claim and be declared self-employed with what I was making even though it wasn't substantial. I'd heard different stories about how difficult it is for self-employed people and thought it wouldn't be a good idea for me to enquire, but lately I've been trying to feel more positive about things and I'm getting sicker and sicker of being on the dole so I just thought I'll go for it and see.

somefeen

I am in the same boat as yourself. I am claiming JSA but I want to set up as self employed.

The only option I have found out via the info online etc is that you can claim BTWEA after a year on JSA. I dont really want to wait a year.
There is also some information stating that if you are self employed and experience a downturn in business you can claim JSA. But I am not sure how this works if you want to go the other way.
I have a meeting with a case officer the week after next and I am going to ask then what the story is. It would be good if you could claim earnings on a week by week basis and have that deducted from your payment the next week but I doubt it would be as simple and logical as that because the DSP doesnt do simple and logical and in fairness working out actual earnings is not straightforward with expenses etc.

njs030

Op I wasn't being high handed about it, I can very well imagine your confusion but unfortunately social welfare are going to want an explanation. You can't just claim confusion as the reason you didn't inform them of your earnings so it might be an idea to write down how you want to explain it.

I'm not sure what you're asking me to link to, when you started getting a payment you filled in an application form and on it there was a part saying you will let social welfare know immediately if your circumstances change which you agreed to by signing it. It's fairly common knowledge that earning money while claiming is fraudulent and is regularly highlighted in the media so I would suggest you don't try saying you weren't aware it wasn't allowed.

Hopefully if it has only been a short time and you explain it as you've done here they will arrange a repayment plan that is easily manageable.

Musicman2000

OP you will need to register with revenue as a sole trader . Go into your social welfare office tell them you are now self employed and they will leave a note on your account .

As i mentioned above you will get a meeting with a social welfare inspector . He or she will ask for proof of earnings from self employment this will be your self assessment return sent back from the revenue . Also 6 months of bank statements and if you have any savings .

They will then means test you according to your circumstances and earnings . It can't be done by the week its done once a year . You will sign on every month and collect your claim from the post office .

Also keep looking for full time employment . Self employed are treated like dirt most of the time which is absolutely ridiculous I've been in the same situation as you . Best of luck with it .