Alcohol at humanist ceremony.

Hills30

I'm getting married this year and we are having a humanist ceremony. I had intended on giving champagne to our guests on arrival to the ceremony - however I can't find definitive answer of whether we can do this or not?

Has anyone any experience of this?

lazygal

I can't see why it'd be an issue. Humanist celebrants operate their own "rules" but we found ours followed our lead rather than telling us what we could and couldn't do.

ted1

Hills30 wrote: »

I'm getting married this year and we are having a humanist ceremony. I had intended on giving champagne to our guests on arrival to the ceremony - however I can't find definitive answer of whether we can do this or not?

Has anyone any experience of this?

Why wouldn't you be allowed ? There's probably nothing about have a dwarf carry the rings for you , but it doesn't mean it's not allowed

pwurple

Ask your celebrant. They would probably prefer that the guests aren't blotto during the ceremony and take it seriously, but a glass of fizz won't do that anyway.

westernlass

This will be fine, it'll depend more on your venue space. We were offered the option for this after ours but decided to move to the reception place instead

Keane2baMused

Of course you can have a glass of champagne for the guests, why wouldn't you?

fits

Hmm I think it might be illegal to have the legal ceremony where alcohol is being served. Cant it wait until after the official bit. Otherwise do the legal bit on another day.

ted1

fits wrote: »

Hmm I think it might be illegal to have the legal ceremony where alcohol is being served. Cant it wait until after the official bit. Otherwise do the legal bit on another day.

"I Think", powerful words, being used to spread urban legends for years

fits

:rolleyes:

"I Think", powerful words, being used to spread urban legends for years

I got married last year in a conservatory with a bar in it. It was a humanist ceremony. I was told by the venue that they could not serve alcohol before the ceremony. I am not aware of the law but took their word for it as an experienced venue. Hence the "I think". But thanks for your 'helpful comment':rolleyes:

The Bishop Basher

It would certainly be unusual to want to have your guests drinking through the ceremony but can't imagine it would be an issue from a humanist perspective...

Bear in mind though that if it's a long day, your guests will be starting early which may negatively affect your day later on..

Also worth considering that some guests may take offence at everyone drinking through a wedding ceremony..

Up to you whether that would bother you or not...

ted1

Swanner wrote: »

It would certainly be unusual to want to have your guests drinking through the ceremony but can't imagine it would be an issue from a humanist perspective...

Bear in mind though that if it's a long day, your guests will be starting early which may negatively affect your day later on..

Also worth considering that some guests may take offence at everyone drinking through a wedding ceremony..

Up to you whether that would bother you or not...

The OP said drinks on Arrival not during.

E.g Guests rock up at 3:10, They have a glass of bubbly and then the ceremony begins at 3:30

DavyD_83

ted1 wrote: »

The OP said drinks on Arrival not during.

E.g Guests rock up at 3:10, They have a glass of bubbly and then the ceremony begins at 3:30

OP might want to clarify what he/she meant...

What OP wrote was "I had intended on giving champagne to our guests on arrival to the ceremony"

My reading of the above would be a glass of bubbles handed to people as they head into the ceremony room/space.
This is something we considered, and I honestly can't remember when/why we dropped it.
But as we weren't planning it by the time we got to details of our humanist ceremony it never came up as a question for the celebrant.

I wouldn't have thought it would be an issue, but can see that maybe as at its core the wedding is a legal contract signing and witnessing maybe booze is not allowed.
I have absolutely no idea if there are rules/laws that say you cannot have a glass of something while signing a contract (Irish law probably did think of this though).

fits

DavyD_83 wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought it would be an issue, but can see that maybe as at its core the wedding is a legal contract signing and witnessing maybe booze is not allowed.

This is my understanding. Now maybe it was a requirement of venue or celebrant but in our case, no alcohol could be served until after the ceremony.

If its not a legal ceremony on the day, you could do what you liked.

seamus

fits wrote: »

I got married last year in a conservatory with a bar in it. It was a humanist ceremony. I was told by the venue that they could not serve alcohol before the ceremony. I am not aware of the law but took their word for it as an experienced venue. Hence the "I think". But thanks for your 'helpful comment'

I can see how this might potentially be a problem if you're having the legal ceremony in that location. The rules for venue approval have a number of requirements, but the two which might be relevant are firstly the requirement for the location to be "open to the public". Perhaps the bar being open means that the venue becomes non-public by default.

But more likely is this one:

Having regard to their primary use, situation, construction and state of repair, the place in which a marriage may be solemnised must, in the opinion of the registrar, be a seemly and dignified venue for the solemnisation of marriages. The primary use of such a venue would render it unsuitable if that use could demean proceedings or bring them into disrepute.

Thus, they could have been told by the GRO that the location is suitable for a civil marriage provided that the bar remains closed before and during the ceremony, lest the availability of alcohol "demean" proceedings.

However, this still doesn't mean that providing champagne on arrival is illegal (i.e. no bar available, just some drinks) unless the GRO has told the venue that it is.

If the OP is having a humanist ceremony that doesn't include the legal marriage, then there's no legal reason why you couldn't have alcohol for guests unless the celebrant disapproves.

garbeth

We got married in a restaurant. The room we got married in had to be "dry". It is a legal requirement. You can of course offer a glass before the ceremony but you cannot bring it into the room with you. People cannot be blind drunk either so as to prevent the ceremony being brought into disrepute

I had given the best men a flask of whiskey as a gift and half way through the ceremony they took a swig from it. The registrar gave them a look to put it away and nothing more was said but yes strictly speaking the room must be dry. I'm assuming it's the same for a humanist ceremony as that's the law regarding civil marriage.

DavyD_83

seamus wrote: »

I can see how this might potentially be a problem if you're having the legal ceremony in that location. The rules for venue approval have a number of requirements, but the two which might be relevant are firstly the requirement for the location to be "open to the public". Perhaps the bar being open means that the venue becomes non-public by default.

But more likely is this one:


Thus, they could have been told by the GRO that the location is suitable for a civil marriage provided that the bar remains closed before and during the ceremony, lest the availability of alcohol "demean" proceedings.

However, this still doesn't mean that providing champagne on arrival is illegal (i.e. no bar available, just some drinks) unless the GRO has told the venue that it is.

If the OP is having a humanist ceremony that doesn't include the legal marriage, then there's no legal reason why you couldn't have alcohol for guests unless the celebrant disapproves.

Sounds like you might have hit the nail on the head with that. I'm interested to see if somebody confirm definitively.

Just to be clear, a humanist ceremony can now also be a legal ceremony, since 2013. We were legally married by a humanist celebrant

Hills30

We are having a Humanist ceremony, which is a fully legal ceremony. Yes, we had intended in the guest enjoying one glass while the ceremony is taking place. I have asked the venue and they are fine with it. However, I can't find any full confirmation on the legalities around alcohol consumption at the ceremony.

lazygal

I don't see why the guests would be an issue. It's you, your partner and the witnesses who are the people needed for the legalities.

Mrs OBumble

Surely you need to consider the principles of humanism as well? The first link that Google gave me says:

Humanists seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. They
use reason, experience and respect for others when thinking about moral issues, not
obedience to dogmatic rules. Humanists believe that we should make the best of the
only life we have, avoiding harm (to the individual or community) and increasing
welfare and happiness.

ref: http://www.humanismforschools.org.uk/pdfs/Drugs%20(final).pdf

Given the amount of harm that alcohol goes to both individuals, I could easily see that committed humanists would see it as something to be avoided, and certainly not compatible with a formal ceremony.

bpmurray

Of course there's noting illegal about drinking at the ceremony - what on earth prompted anyone to think there might be? As long as the serving of alcohol is otherwise legal, go for it.

Also, humanism most usually refers to a non-religious lifestyle and, in my experience, rarely refers to being abstemious, so that shouldn't be an issue either. The harm caused by alcohol is, of course, caused by excess, so a glass of bubbly, particularly considering the cardiac benefits touted by the Daily Mail, should be welcome.

Keane2baMused

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Surely you need to consider the principles of humanism as well? The first link that Google gave me says:



ref: http://www.humanismforschools.org.uk/pdfs/Drugs%20(final).pdf

Given the amount of harm that alcohol goes to both individuals, I could easily see that committed humanists would see it as something to be avoided, and certainly not compatible with a formal ceremony.

Honestly it just appears from your posts that unless everyone is agreeable to abide by (supposed) rule/law/doctrine then they should high tail it to the registry office and ignore what they wish for their marriage ceremony.

You seem to have a very negative attitude in general.

Thankfully the vast majority of solemnisers are very open minded and accepting of individuals from all walks of life and beliefs.

lazygal

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Surely you need to consider the principles of humanism as well? The first link that Google gave me says:



ref: http://www.humanismforschools.org.uk/pdfs/Drugs%20(final).pdf

Given the amount of harm that alcohol goes to both individuals, I could easily see that committed humanists would see it as something to be avoided, and certainly not compatible with a formal ceremony.

Do you quiz everyone on their choice of ceremony? Make sure the catholics are in a state of grace before the sacrament of marriage is taken? Make sure the religions that require both parties to be virgins do the right checks? If a couple are having a Christian ceremony but they've already had kids, do you tut tut and tell them to head to a registry office instead?

Keane2baMused

lazygal wrote: »

Do you quiz everyone on their choice of ceremony? Make sure the catholics are in a state of grace before the sacrament of marriage is taken? Make sure the religions that require both parties to be virgins do the right checks? If a couple are having a Christian ceremony but they've already had kids, do you tut tut and tell them to head to a registry office instead?

God forbid a glass of champagne is served, leading the way to alcoholism.

seamus

Hills30 wrote: »

We are having a Humanist ceremony, which is a fully legal ceremony. Yes, we had intended in the guest enjoying one glass while the ceremony is taking place. I have asked the venue and they are fine with it. However, I can't find any full confirmation on the legalities around alcohol consumption at the ceremony.

If the venue and the celebrant have stated no problem with it, then there is no legal problem.

lazygal

Keane2baMused wrote: »

God forbid a glass of champagne is served, leading the way to alcoholism.

Our celebrant drank with us after he married us! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

PhoenixParker

There's a difference between drinking before/during the ceremony and drinking after the ceremony.

The ceremony itself is an important legal contract so it's important that none of the parties to the contract (bride/groom/witnesses/celebrant) have taken anything that could vaguely be considered mind altering at the point of signing & declaration.

Once the legalities are concluded, it's open season.

The guests are another matter and I'd imagine it comes down to the particular registering organisation and solemniser involved.
The definite impression I've gotten from any civil solemnisers is that alcohol in the ceremony room is very much not the done thing. That's in line with sentiments like

Having regard to their primary use, situation, construction and state of repair, the place in which a marriage may be solemnised must, in the opinion of the registrar, be a seemly and dignified venue for the solemnisation of marriages. The primary use of such a venue would render it unsuitable if that use could demean proceedings or bring them into disrepute.

concerning the venue selection.

Secular and religious solemnisers have more leeway but probably best to clarify with them individually.

Mrs OBumble

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Honestly it just appears from your posts that unless everyone is agreeable to abide by (supposed) rule/law/doctrine then they should high tail it to the registry office and ignore what they wish for their marriage ceremony.

Yes, that is exactly what I believe they should do.

Having someone who doesn't subscribe to humanist viewpoints but who still has a humanist wedding is as much a hypocrite as someone who has a church wedding to keep their mammy happy.

Even better, they should lobby their TD to get legal recognition of genuinely non-religious solemnisers who work weekends and in alternative venues, which is what should have been done in the first place rather than setting up weddings as a cash-cow for a few minority creeds.



(And I love the way a woman who has opinion which differ from the norm is immediately labelled as "negative".)

Keane2baMused

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, that is exactly what I believe they should do.

Having someone who doesn't subscribe to humanist viewpoints but who still has a humanist wedding is as much a hypocrite as someone who has a church wedding to keep their mammy happy.

Even better, they should lobby their TD to get legal recognition of genuinely non-religious solemnisers who work weekends and in alternative venues, which is what should have been done in the first place rather than setting up weddings as a cash-cow for a few minority creeds.



(And I love the way a woman who has opinion which differ from the norm is immediately labelled as "negative".)

You consistently question other people's choices. Let other people be happy with theirs, there is no need to force your opinion down anyone's neck or treat it as gospel.

The moral highground doesn't begin and end with you, or anyone else!

Different strokes!

arrianalexander

We were told by a number hotels that you cannot serve alcohol half hour before time after in the room the ceremony is taking place for legal reason.

We can only go by what we were told I'm no expert

You can of course have a drink in a different room. IMO I presumed it was the legal contract been signed dictated the reasonings. It didn't bother us so we didn't follow it up with questions but as I said a number of hotels said us (ones where there was A bar in the room )

I'm not saying this is law I'm just passing on what was said to us

Keane2baMused

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Even better, they should lobby their TD to get legal recognition of genuinely non-religious solemnisers who work weekends and in alternative venues, which is what should have been done in the first place rather than setting up weddings as a cash-cow for a few minority creeds.

Oh and interfaith ministers can perform non-religious ceremony's at weekends.

They can be as "genuinely non-religious" as you want.

Gatica

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, that is exactly what I believe they should do.

Having someone who doesn't subscribe to humanist viewpoints but who still has a humanist wedding is as much a hypocrite as someone who has a church wedding to keep their mammy happy.

Even better, they should lobby their TD to get legal recognition of genuinely non-religious solemnisers who work weekends and in alternative venues, which is what should have been done in the first place rather than setting up weddings as a cash-cow for a few minority creeds.



(And I love the way a woman who has opinion which differ from the norm is immediately labelled as "negative".)

Fair play to you for having a strong moral stand that I presume you live by. As mentioned on another thread already though, the civil registry Mon-Fri wedding isn't for everyone and the options are currently limited. Yes, we should lobby our politicians to allow anyone (within a certain framework) to be able to register to perform marriages, but that is no good to someone getting married now, or even next year.
TBH, the "I am a woman being labelled negative" card isn't really applicable here. Even if you were a bloke your comments would sound just as negative to someone trying to do the best they can under the circumstances for their ceremony.

Gatica

bpmurray wrote: »

Of course there's noting illegal about drinking at the ceremony - what on earth prompted anyone to think there might be? As long as the serving of alcohol is otherwise legal, go for it.

arrianalexander wrote: »

We were told by a number hotels that you cannot serve alcohol half hour before time after in the room the ceremony is taking place for legal reason.

Actually, there is a rule somewhere that if you're having a civil wedding (with registrar, rather than religious or humanist) at a venue other than the registry office that alcohol cannot be served in the same venue for a half hour after the ceremony, and probably before (or some similar amount). This is certainly something that venues may have heard before and would assume it applies to all legal marriages at their premises. However, a humanist wedding is not the same as the civil. The OP should talk to their celebrant and get their input on this as it will be their responsibility to enforce the legality of the marriage ceremony on the day.