Three year leaving cert

MariaK123

Hi I'm new here so I'm not sure if this would be the right place to post it. My son is in 3rd year of school and recently I have discovered that the school has made a three-year leaving cert plan. Back when he was in first year, the school made TY compulsory. I thought this was fine at the time because I thought its a great year to do ty activities and to develop and grow up. However, now that he is heading into TY next September, they have asked him to pick his leaving cert subjects. Apparently while the kids get to do a few activities their timetables for fourth year are mostly full up of leaving cert classes get a head start on the course. I asked the principal if this was allowed and he said that it was however after doing research online I dont think it is, especially since i found the last subject inspection found TY students using leaving cert textbooks and said this was wrong. I personally dont feel it's right for the school to force the students into an extra long leaving cert without giving them a break of the year (or at least the choice to do so). Who can I make a complaint to? I assume the board of management is aware and behind this change so who is above them? surely the department would like to know. Also the school is an etb school if this would make a difference? I'd just like to make my complaint known. thanks for any help

spurious

It's not allowed. I would write to the Department.

TheDriver

Problem is that lots of schools now do this so the maths might be feeling pressure. The maths course is now very long as is English and nearly 3 year courses.
Complain to Dept but don't expect it to change quickly.

Bazinga_N

It's not allowed. I would write to the Department.

My school has a three year leaving cert course and I never realised it wasn't allowed. Surely it would have been discovered on inspections? Would the department not easily figure it out?

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

Problem is that lots of schools now do this so the maths might be feeling pressure. The maths course is now very long as is English and nearly 3 year courses.
Complain to Dept but don't expect it to change quickly.

Well.. the question remains, are they running a legitimate transition year program or not? This seems like they are not.

And as we all know! The department can only advise and give guidelines. They provide 'for' education, as in just pick up the wages tab, while the school provides the education. Subject inspections, drivebys... who cares once there're no sanctions (unless it gets media attention).
Although if the dept is shelling out money to subject teachers to teach a certain curriculum and they're not, then could they withhold the money! Probably not.

So.. not much you can do OP except maybe complain to board of management/ parents council.

Read the ethos, are they breaking their mission statement by claiming to be holistic when in fact they are now focusing on academic results. What does their blurb on the website say about the transition-year program (you don't have to quote it here) , are they mis-selling the school?

I wonder is there competition in the local area from other schools or 'grind schools' some of which are offering a 'TY' program, but start the LC early so students can 'Get a head start on the Leaving Certificate syllabus' and get the college matriculation subjects 'out of the way' in 5th year.

evolving_doors

Black and white:

The Transition Year should offer pupils space to learn, mature and develop in the absence of examination pressure. The school should ensure therefore that, in all areas studied, there is a clear distinction between the Transition Year programme and the corresponding Leaving Certificate syllabus. A Transition Year programme is NOT part of the Leaving Certificate programme, and should NOT be seen as an opportunity for spending three years rather than two studying Leaving Certificate material. (PG 3 HERE )

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

And as we all know! The department can only advise and give guidelines. They provide 'for' education, as in just pick up the wages tab, while the school provides the education. Subject inspections, drivebys... who cares once there're no sanctions (unless it gets media attention).
Although if the dept is shelling out money to subject teachers to teach a certain curriculum and they're not, then could they withhold the money! Probably not.

For a start there is probably a programme coordinator post in the school, be it at special duties or assistant principal level, which isnt being used to coordinate a proper TY programme.

This kind of thing is indicative of the type of culture that will become the norm if the FG government get their way. 'Outcomes' focussed, league tables and soon to follow funding /payment by results.

Grueller

man_no_plan wrote: »

For a start there is probably a programme coordinator post in the school, be it at special duties or assistant principal level, which isnt being used to coordinate a proper TY programme.

This kind of thing is indicative of the type of culture that will become the norm if the FG government get their way. 'Outcomes' focussed, league tables and soon to follow funding /payment by results.

You might be right but the talk of school league tables pre dates a fg government and was actually a kite that was flown during Berties reign. You sound like you might be a ff supporter based on this post.

evolving_doors

Grueller wrote: »

You might be right but the talk of school league tables pre dates a fg government and was actually a kite that was flown during Berties reign. You sound like you might be a ff supporter based on this post.

And I'm sure talk of league tables has been around for donkey years before that too.... Although, did FF put it into their manifesto, or was it just talk?

Anyhow, I'd say the minister for Ed. Does little to nothing, at the moment it's all coming from a ' spokeswoman for the minister',
different minister... same ' advisors' running the show.

evolving_doors

Sorry that's all veering off topic, it's clear that it's the school taking the decision to corrupt 'ty' into a 3 yr lc. I presume others will follow suit once the dept do sfa.

man_no_plan

Grueller wrote: »

You might be right but the talk of school league tables pre dates a fg government and was actually a kite that was flown during Berties reign. You sound like you might be a ff supporter based on this post.

Even if i was so what. I read the FG manifesto which was pretty clear.

More School Accountability for Performance: With
more autonomy will come more school accountability,
to both parents and taxpayers. Parents have a right
to information about their children’s educational
performance. Fine Gael will, within 12 months,
complete a review of options for standardised testing
in our schools, with a view to implementing a single
model by 2018, aimed at delivering clear performance
information for teachers, parents and students.
In the interim, we will require schools to publish annual
reports, taking into account test results, facilities,
extra-curricular activities, ICT resources, and special
education resources. Schools, together with parents,
will set targets against which they will be reviewed.
Self-evaluation will be strengthened and will be the
basis on which schools are inspected. Fine Gael will
also make available – at the request of school parents
and patrons – “School Support Teams” with special
powers to turn around failing schools.

Grueller

man_no_plan wrote: »

Even if i was so what. I read the FG manifesto which was pretty clear.

More School Accountability for Performance: With
more autonomy will come more school accountability,
to both parents and taxpayers. Parents have a right
to information about their children’s educational
performance. Fine Gael will, within 12 months,
complete a review of options for standardised testing
in our schools, with a view to implementing a single
model by 2018, aimed at delivering clear performance
information for teachers, parents and students.
In the interim, we will require schools to publish annual
reports, taking into account test results, facilities,
extra-curricular activities, ICT resources, and special
education resources. Schools, together with parents,
will set targets against which they will be reviewed.
Self-evaluation will be strengthened and will be the
basis on which schools are inspected. Fine Gael will
also make available – at the request of school parents
and patrons – “School Support Teams” with special
powers to turn around failing schools.

I am not disputing any of what you say but I just think it is cheap point scoring against a fg government (which I am no fan of by the way) when previous governments were on the same page thats all. If you look at my previous post you will see that I agreed with you. Like I said, just think it is cheap point scoring like I also think Irish water was by ff after they had agreed water charges with the troika, but that is a whole other can of worms.

man_no_plan

Grueller wrote: »

I am not disputing any of what you say but I just think it is cheap point scoring against a fg government (which I am no fan of by the way) when previous governments were on the same page thats all. If you look at my previous post you will see that I agreed with you. Like I said, just think it is cheap point scoring like I also think Irish water was by ff after they had agreed water charges with the troika, but that is a whole other can of worms.

Yea fg are in power so their policies are most likely to be implemented thats all. Hardly a cheap shot!

Grueller

man_no_plan wrote: »

Yea fg are in power so their policies are most likely to be implemented thats all. Hardly a cheap shot!

Fair enough. I do agree with what you say just hate the way when politicians leave power they criticise policy that they were all for when in power and also the way they almost get a pass on it. I have taken this thread too far off topic so I will bow out now.

Crazyteacher

Grueller wrote: »

Fair enough. I do agree with what you say just hate the way when politicians leave power thwy criticise policy that they were all for when in power and also the way they almost get a pass on it. I have taken this thread too gar off topic so I will bow out now.

It used to be that a third of the course could be completed in TY. Is that still the case? I know we did in Irish, English, and Maths but the rest of the subjects were TY specific courses.

r93kaey5p2izun

I know that none of the LC course can be covered in TY now but I had it in my head that it used to be that 10% was allowed.

spurious

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Sorry that's all veering off topic, it's clear that it's the school taking the decision to corrupt 'ty' into a 3 yr lc. I presume others will follow suit once the dept do sfa.

I'm sure there's a smart lawyer out there could make a case against the Dept. for allowing it in one school and not the one that my precious attends.
Kerching!!

RealJohn

Raiden Howling Graphologist wrote: »

I know that none of the LC course can be covered in TY now but I had it in my head that it used to be that 10% was allowed.

10% was what I understood was allowed. I wasn't aware that that had changed.

I can't imagine it was every allowed to cover a third of the leaving cert material though. Sure that would essentially be giving the go ahead for a three year leaving cert - cover a third in TY and the other two thirds in the following two years? Sure sounds like a three year LC to me.

TheDriver

https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Inspection-Reports-Publications/Whole-School-Evaluation-Reports-List/report9_62520C.pdf

See page 5: clearly states that they don't like the 3 year LC. I still don't see this particular school changing it seeing as many other fee paying schools around it do the same thing