Pope coming to Ireland...lets waste tax payer money!

Cabaal

So the high sparrow pope is coming to Ireland, not sure what bands are going to be playing with him when he does his gig but no doubt we'll waste lots of money protecting him and stuff :pac:

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-ireland-visit-dublin-2779253-May2016/

POPE FRANCIS IS set to visit Ireland in 2018, according to a reports.

This comes after the pontiff was asked by Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin to preside over the World Meeting of Families, an event backed by the Holy See that will be taking place in Dublin in 2018.

I've always said I'll take time off work when a pope visits to protest against the church's position on so many issues, looks like I'll be doing it in 2018 so.

The Randy Riverbeast

Will he be discussing the 250ish million debt his organisation owes?

frostyjacks

Wonderful news. It'll be a great occasion.

Atomic Pineapple

I don't really have an issue with him visiting or the use of public funds to facilitate it as long as they aren't significant. The majority of people in Ireland are catholic and I wouldn't begrudge them a visit from their leader.

Funds are used to facilitate visits from many different leaders from the world whether they be country or religious or something else so I don't think it would be unusual or unexpected for some to be used in the popes visit (again as long as they aren't significant or go overboard on something ridiculous)

silverharp

once he doesn't go through the city centre on a work day because reasons.

Lurkio

Cabaal wrote: »

So the high sparrow pope is coming to Ireland, not sure what bands are going to be playing with him when he does his gig but no doubt we'll waste lots of money protecting him and stuff :pac:

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-ireland-visit-dublin-2779253-May2016/



I've always said I'll take time off work when a pope visits to protest against the church's position on so many issues, looks like I'll be doing it in 2018 so.

It is customary to fly the flag when Il Capo Di Tutti Capi arrives.

ArthurG

frostyjacks wrote: »

Wonderful news. It'll be a great occasion.

Great bunch of lads

Canadel

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I don't really have an issue with him visiting or the use of public funds to facilitate it as long as they aren't significant. The majority of people in Ireland are catholic and I wouldn't begrudge them a visit from their leader.

Funds are used to facilitate visits from many different leaders from the world whether they be country or religious or something else so I don't think it would be unusual or unexpected for some to be used in the popes visit (again as long as they aren't significant or go overboard on something ridiculous)

The majority of people in Ireland are Man Utd fans. Would it have been right for a visit by Alex Ferguson to have been funded by public money?

You're falling into the same old argument here that believers use to defend the lack of a separation of church and state. "Majority of people are Catholics" so there is "no need or reason to separate church and state." No. It's still not right. And neither is the public funding the visit of a religious fundamentalist.

Taxpayers money goes on protection for lots of state visits by foreign heads of state.

Like it or not or believe in God or not, the pope is a visiting head of state.

sabat

Far from being a waste of money, I'd say a visit will create a significant boost to the economy and so an increase in tax paid to the exchequer.
Something that really annoyed the piss out of me though was the army being deployed to accompany the "relics" (ie pieces of her corpse) of St Therese on a tour of the country.

mansize

Canadel wrote: »

The majority of people in Ireland are Man Utd fans. Would it have been right for a visit by Alex Ferguson to have been funded by public money?

You're falling into the same old argument here that believers use to defend the lack of a separation of church and state. "Majority of people are Catholics" so there is "no need or reason to separate church and state." No. It's still not right. And neither is the public funding the visit of a religious fundamentalist.

Where's your evidence of Man United majority?

MayoSalmon

mansize wrote: »

Where's your evidence of Man United majority?

Leicester Fans now!

Timberrrrrrrr

No issue with the hat arriving and having an auld gander, reckon he will draw massive crowds from around the globe and any money spent on protection will be more than covered by money spent.

Sure didn't Lizzy and Phil get the full month when they came over so only fair his popyness gets equal treatment.

Just not looking forward to the 24/7 news of it 3 weeks before/after the event. Also the preaching about how we should all (insert preachy wishy washy stuff) will irk me but hopefully will be out of the country so won't bother me in the least.

mahoganygas

Other than costing the taxpayer money, his visit will have no negative effect on me.

But I think his visit will kick start debate on secular Ireland. Most people don't believe and are happy to just shrug their shoulders and get on with their lives.
This visit will be a great opportunity to compare to JP's visit in the park when half of Ireland turned up for a gawk.

Newspaper column inches will be filled and people will start chatting around the water cooler about Frank's visit. If it gets people talking and realising that Ireland is fast becoming secular then I think that is good thing.

His visit will be an excellent time to debate social issues like abortion, gay marriage, equal access to education etc.

The biggest challenge to those of us who want a secular Ireland is that the average Irish joe soap is apathetic to the idea of secularism. Let's give them something to talk about.

eviltwin

I'd imagine any visit will be timed to coincide with any possible abortion referendum. I know there was talk of him visiting a while back that came to nothing so I think he's waiting until he can maximise it to the church's advantage.

Pherekydes

Hopefully some gay couples will tie the knot in the full glare of papist publicity. :pac:

iDave

Tax money doesn't bother me we've wasted much bigger sums of money on other things in recent years.
It's the cringe talk of people's faith being 'reenergised' that'll annoy me and the inevitable Quinn article declaring we are a Catholic nation when an overhead photo of the crowd surfaces.

_Whimsical_

We're paying 5 million to bring Joe Biden on a little tour of his Irish roots over the summer. A man known almost only for making gaffs during his time in office.

At least the pope, whatever you might think of the religion he heads, has actually said and done some meaningful things in his time in office. He was the first to highlight the refugee crisis,he's brokered the end of sanctions against Cuba by the US, he's regularly speaking on environmentalism, income inequality, social inclusion, ethical economic development. Personally I find he provides an interesting and necessary commentary on the ethics of pressing social issues, from a moral perspective rather than an exclusively Christian one. Signs by it articles on his speeches have often appeared in the likes of Reddit top voted content. He's actually saying things ordinary people want to hear very often and don't hear from any other "leader".I would welcome him more than some.

Also his take on Catholicism is different to what we have known to date. I think incorporating it into Irish Catholicism would be no harm.

Canadel

mansize wrote: »

Where's your evidence of Man United majority?

If it were a question on the census, I think Man Utd would be the majority with Liverpool close behind.

mansize

Canadel wrote: »

If it were a question on the census, I think Man Utd would be the majority with Liverpool close behind.

Would the majority not be any one specific club? I can't imagine over 50% of the Irish people support man Utd

Canadel

mansize wrote: »

Would the majority not be any one specific club? I can't imagine over 50% of the Irish people support man Utd

Yep, you're right. My argument was more an anology about the relevance of religion compared to a football team. Man Utd and Liverpool together are the teams the majority of Irish football fans support.

Atomic Pineapple

Canadel wrote: »

The majority of people in Ireland are Man Utd fans. Would it have been right for a visit by Alex Ferguson to have been funded by public money?

You're falling into the same old argument here that believers use to defend the lack of a separation of church and state. "Majority of people are Catholics" so there is "no need or reason to separate church and state." No. It's still not right. And neither is the public funding the visit of a religious fundamentalist.

I used the word majority but would equally have used the word minority if it were the case. People believe in the religion and would like to see the pope, begrudging them that just because I don't believe in it, is not, in my opinion good human nature.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the separation of church and state which is a much more important issue than a visit that will be insignificant and quickly fade away to nothing in the following months.

seamus

I guess at a fundamental level one can argue that the reason we go to the trouble of spending money on visiting heads of state is for the PR exercise - both because of how bad it would look if they were assassinated on our soil, but also to encourage tourism and FDI from that country by showing their head of state a good time.

The Vatican is a special case though in this regard. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't produce anything. There is no FDI or tourism that we can gain from the Vatican.

Perhaps though it should be looked on as not necessarily what we can get from the Vatican, but get from catholics around the world?

mahoganygas

Canadel wrote: »

The majority of people in Ireland are Man Utd fans. Would it have been right for a visit by Alex Ferguson to have been funded by public money?

You're falling into the same old argument here that believers use to defend the lack of a separation of church and state. "Majority of people are Catholics" so there is "no need or reason to separate church and state." No. It's still not right. And neither is the public funding the visit of a religious fundamentalist.

Did you protest when the Dalai Lama visited in 2013?

flutered

will he have comical alan and redact5ed on stage with him

DK man

If it is on a purely economic evaluation:

He is coming here to preside over an international meeting. His presence at this meeting will no doubt give this event a massive boost in terms of interest and numbers.
Hotels, restaurants and bars will be brimming and this will offer a massive injection of cash into the Irish economy. All the major world media outlets will be parked up to and if the Minister for tourism is cleaver enough will take him and all those will fancy cameras around Irelands beautiful sights some religious and some not / Rock of Cashel / Skellig's and Croagh Patrick by helicopter / etc.... Bord Failte pay millions for this.....

This will be a very good opportunity for Ireland theist and atheist alike. Don't let your anti catholic fervor get in the way of common sense

AlanG

It seems fair enough to spend money appropriate to protect a head of state who is attending a major international event. i don't have any interest but lots of Irish people do.

Absolam

Canadel wrote: »

If it were a question on the census, I think Man Utd would be the majority with Liverpool close behind.

We'd have to discuss whether it was fair to have Man Utd on the top of the list though. And how confusing it is to tick "no interest in soccer" when it's in a box below "other soccer team please specify". Nor less why the question is 'Which sports team in another country do you support'. Can o' worms Joe, can o' worms!

Fleawuss

i will, with the greatest joy and freedom (assuming I'm alive), continue with my everyday life. Imams, mullahs, popes, patriarchs, sensei and high sparrows can come and go. I'm too lazy this Sunday morning to repost my favorite movie clip but it goes like: frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

recedite

DK man wrote: »

If it is on a purely economic evaluation:

He is coming here to preside over an international meeting. His presence at this meeting will no doubt give this event a massive boost in terms of interest and numbers.

Its a bit of a stretch to call it an "international meeting" when its his own gig.
It seems to me that this "World Meeting of Families" may have been planned soon after we voted the wrong way in the same sex marriage referendum.
As a stunt to help point out the eh.. "error of our ways"

As the big hat said himself;

Respect the God-given cycle of life, for this respect is part of our respect for God himself, who created male and female, who created them in his own image, reflecting his own life-giving love in the patterns of their sexual being.

It reminds me of the occasional short visits to this country by British monarchs, often when the natives were seen to be thinking and acting with a little too much "independence". They used to spend a bit of money on bread and circuses, deck the place out in Union Jacks, have a bit of a party for a few days, and then go home, leaving behind an obelisk as a reminder of their great importance.

The Randy Riverbeast

recedite wrote: »

Its a bit of a stretch to call it an "international meeting" when its his own gig.
It seems to me that this "World Meeting of Families" may have been planned soon after we voted the wrong way in the same sex marriage referendum.
As a stunt to help point out the eh.. "error of our ways"

As the big hat said himself;

It reminds me of the occasional short visits to this country by British monarchs, often when the natives were seen to be thinking and acting with a little too much "independence". They used to spend a bit of money on bread and circuses, deck the place out in Union Jacks, have a bit of a party for a few days, and then go home, leaving behind an obelisk as a reminder of their great importance.

Popey is the king pope of PR. He knows his audience and after voting in for SSM I would be surprised if he touches (poor choice of word) that topic publicly in a negative manner. He'll say something about how Ireland has shown it loves all families equally blah blah blah, progressive stuff but we must make sure to protect all children, born and unborn.

It's all about abortion now. The religious in this country are very quick to drop a topic once they lose. Marriage has been lost for them like divorce and contraception. It's not going to be reversed so no need to risk kicking a bigger hole in the boat that is already leaking members.

fisgon

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

He was the first to highlight the refugee crisis,.

This is absolutely not true. There were many other politicians and NGOs highlighting this before Francis was even pope. We just heard more about his raising of the issue because he is very media savvy and has become a darling of the western media in general.

It is true that he has more progressive positions on certain issues than previous popes, or than other clerics, but that is not saying much. He certainly seems more of a real human being than his predecessors, but let's not be fooled. The Pope is still a Catholic.