Tommy McNamara

8-10

TMac, as the American's call him, is an Irish American from New York who holds both an Irish and American passport, and I'm advocating for the FAI to give him a chance to play for Ireland.

I'm expecting plenty of "MLS is shoite" responses, and you wouldn't be wrong - it's pretty poor, but bear with me a sec.

I've watched Patrick Vieira's New York City team a couple of times this season. He's really in at the deep end but definitely appears to be free to experiment with his teams and tactics which is refreshing as you'd get slated in Britain for that.

Tommy McNamara plays in midfield in an attacking role. He's direct and creative and scores a goal here and there. He's training and playing alongside the likes of Andrea Pirlo, David Villa and Frank Lampard (who still hasn't made his NYCFC debut yet!)

Has anybody else seen him play? From limited viewing against questionable opposition in a poor league I admit it's hard to give too much credence to a recommendation - but to me he does look like a player. It seems he would be willing to come if he got a call up.

I'm not saying now, but after the Euro's when some of the more senior players move on, it's clear that we don't have an endless supply of attacking players coming through. I think we could do a lot worse than calling up Tommy to get him into a training camp with the others and do a proper assessment. Not saying we should give him a cap straight off, but since he is willing to listen to the FAI then at least call him up for training to get a gauge for his quality

Recent goals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyfFvvnQf3I

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

TMac, as the American's call him, is an Irish American from New York who holds both an Irish and American passport, and I'm advocating for the FAI to give him a chance to play for Ireland...

You're in the right place, most suggestions here are implemented by the FAI, though it can take a few weeks...

HalloweenJack

Can't be worse than Joey Lapira.

Whatever happened to that goalie that was at New York? Ryan Meara, was it?

I know I could google it but I know there's a few boardsies who watch the MLS so maybe they can give me an idea of how he's been doing.

8-10

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Can't be worse than Joey Lapira.

Whatever happened to that goalie that was at New York? Ryan Meara, was it?

I know I could google it but I know there's a few boardsies who watch the MLS so maybe they can give me an idea of how he's been doing.

In fairness Lapira was an amateur, not even at MLS level (was he a college player?). Should never have been allowed near the team.

I've watched a good few games this season. There's some cracking games but it falls down overall on defending, too many goals for my liking but the locals like that sort of thing.

I reckon with McNamara that if his season continues to go well he'll be in line for a call up to the US team so I'm hoping we at least attempt to give him a shot

Vex Willems

8-10 wrote: »

Frank Lampard (who still hasn't made his NYCFC debut yet!)

eh, he has, last season but hasn't played yet this season

I see no harm in calling the lad up and seeing what he's like

enzo roco

How about giving a chance to our players up and down the country.
How about the fai dont pay to fly over people like Grealish, to play underage when there are 1000s from Ireland that would die to play for the jersey.
Give children a chance, at 15,16,17s

And this isnt a rant at the players we had throughout the years. Many had the commitment to play for Ireland, like Kilbane, james Mccarthy etc.
But the fai pay cash to get Jack to play for Ireland u-15s. When other 15/16 yo around our country dont get a chance, is nothing but a disgrace.

8-10

Vex Willems wrote: »

eh, he has, last season but hasn't played yet this season

Oh really? I'm really showing my ignorance as this is my first season watching. Obviously took up the commentator wrong when he said he hadn't played yet.

Is he still good?

8-10

enzo roco wrote: »

How about giving a chance to our players up and down the country.
How about the fai dont pay to fly over people like Grealish, to play underage when there are 1000s from Ireland that would die to play for the jersey.
Give children a chance, at 15,16,17s

And this isnt a rant at the players we had throughout the years. Many had the commitment to play for Ireland, like Kilbane, james Mccarthy etc.
But the fai pay cash to get Jack to play for Ireland u-15s. When other 15/16 yo around our country dont get a chance, is nothing but a disgrace.

This guy is already a citizen living abroad. It's not like he has a foreign passport and is being enticed to get an Irish one to play for us. Anybody who is Irish deserves a chance if he's good enough, and I'm saying that this guy currently has good form and is willing to come if called up.

SEPT 23 1989

DARK-KNIGHT

enzo roco wrote: »

How about giving a chance to our players up and down the country.
How about the fai dont pay to fly over people like Grealish, to play underage when there are 1000s from Ireland that would die to play for the jersey.
Give children a chance, at 15,16,17s

And this isnt a rant at the players we had throughout the years. Many had the commitment to play for Ireland, like Kilbane, james Mccarthy etc.
But the fai pay cash to get Jack to play for Ireland u-15s. When other 15/16 yo around our country dont get a chance, is nothing but a disgrace.

You seem very passionate about irish players. Can i ask do you go to loi games?

Vex Willems

8-10 wrote: »

Is he still good?

No idea, haven't seen him play

holy guacamole

Given that the standard of the MLS is, imo, lower than the LOI I think our management team would be better served looking at players performing up and down this country on a weekly basis.

8-10

holy guacamole wrote: »

Given that the standard of the MLS is, imo, lower than the LOI

No I don't think that's true - I don't think it's even close. Sure Ireland have more MLS players in their squad at the moment for the upcoming friendlies and possibly Euro's than they have LoI players.

You'd be surprised at the standard, as I say defensively it's poor but overall it's not as bad as 6/7 years ago.

Really if you look at players like Mauro Diaz, Pedro Morales, David Villa, Kaka, Ignacio Piatti, Andrea Pirlo, Michael Bradley, Giovinco, Higuain etc they are a class above their LOI equivalents.

Even washed up players like Ashley Cole, Drogba, Gerrard etc would get into LOI sides also I reckon.

It's easy to dismiss as it's the USA and traditionally a bad league, and if you're talking defenders I agree the standard is very low, but watch a few games and you see some seriously good players - I would suggest that the standard is closer to some of the 2nd/3rd tier European leagues than you'd think.

eagle eye

When Bradley-Wright Phillips looks as good as Luis Suarez you know the league is pretty weak.

doncarlos

8-10 wrote: »

Really if you look at players like Mauro Diaz, Pedro Morales, David Villa, Kaka, Ignacio Piatti, Andrea Pirlo, Michael Bradley, Giovinco, Higuain etc they are a class above their LOI equivalents.

Even washed up players like Ashley Cole, Drogba, Gerrard etc would get into LOI sides also I reckon.

But aren't these all marquee players? If you parachuted these players into the LOI it won't instantly upgrade the quality of our own players.

holy guacamole

8-10 wrote: »

No I don't think that's true - I don't think it's even close. Sure Ireland have more MLS players in their squad at the moment for the upcoming friendlies and possibly Euro's than they have LoI players.

You'd be surprised at the standard, as I say defensively it's poor but overall it's not as bad as 6/7 years ago.

Really if you look at players like Mauro Diaz, Pedro Morales, David Villa, Kaka, Ignacio Piatti, Andrea Pirlo, Michael Bradley, Giovinco, Higuain etc they are a class above their LOI equivalents.

Even washed up players like Ashley Cole, Drogba, Gerrard etc would get into LOI sides also I reckon.

It's easy to dismiss as it's the USA and traditionally a bad league, and if you're talking defenders I agree the standard is very low, but watch a few games and you see some seriously good players - I would suggest that the standard is closer to some of the 2nd/3rd tier European leagues than you'd think.

In terms of its top players than yeah obviously the MLS is superior to our league. But I watched a few games when Sky first started showing it and couldn't get over how amateurish the majority of the players were. There seemed to be no structure or organisation to the teams and the recurring theme was a lack of discipline in terms of defensive responsibilities.

This might just be a coaching issue and maybe some of the lads over there are more naturally gifted than those in the LOI but I still think a player plying his trade in Ireland would fit more seamlessly into our international set-up.

8-10

eagle eye wrote: »

When Bradley-Wright Phillips looks as good as Luis Suarez you know the league is pretty weak.

True alright! Again I put that down to poor defending. But it's still a better standard than LoI

In any case I've already said this in my OP: People will argue the weakness of the league and I'm accepting completely that I could be wrong about this guy because of how little I've seen him play

This isn't really the point. What I'm saying is if he's willing to be called up, and players like Walters and Hoolahan not likely to play forever, then I'm suggesting we call him up for the first training camp or friendly after the Euros to assess him.

What is there to lose? I'm fine with also bringing any outstanding performers from the LoI or any other league if they're Irish, willing to play, and in good form. Just calling out McNamara as many might not be thinking of him right now but I think he's one to look out for if you find a NYCFC game on tv or something

chopperbyrne

eagle eye wrote: »

When Bradley-Wright Phillips looks as good as Luis Suarez you know the league is pretty weak.

I love the LOI, but Wright-Phillips would score for fun in our league.

Overall, MLS is a higher standard than LOI.

SantryRed

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I love the LOI, but Wright-Phillips would score for fun in our league.

Overall, MLS is a higher standard than LOI.

And the MLS x10000000 times a better watch than the LOI.

Johner

holy guacamole wrote: »

Given that the standard of the MLS is, imo, lower than the LOI

It's a much much higher standard than the LOI.

enzo roco

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

You seem very passionate about irish players. Can i ask do you go to loi games?

Yes I do.

But I am coaching, which I am very passionate about.
I am passionate that the fai change their ways.

Arghus

holy guacamole wrote: »

Given that the standard of the MLS is, imo, lower than the LOI...

The MLS might not be all that fantastic, but it's of a much, much higher standard than the LOI. And it's improving all the time, which is something I can't claim of our own.

A fair proportion, if not an outright majority, of the US squad at the last World Cup were US based players, and they acquited themselves well against tough opposition. An Irish team made up of LOI players would have been massacred.

LuckyLloyd

enzo roco wrote: »

How about giving a chance to our players up and down the country.
How about the fai dont pay to fly over people like Grealish, to play underage when there are 1000s from Ireland that would die to play for the jersey.
Give children a chance, at 15,16,17s

And this isnt a rant at the players we had throughout the years. Many had the commitment to play for Ireland, like Kilbane, james Mccarthy etc.
But the fai pay cash to get Jack to play for Ireland u-15s. When other 15/16 yo around our country dont get a chance, is nothing but a disgrace.

Well now, in the real world the FAI are giving a lot of time to the best of our homegrown players in the underage development squads. The very youngest squads will be predominantly selected from the DDSL (there are questions to be asked about how well the DDSL and other leagues are scouted of course and that selection process but it's a separate conversation with its own difficulties). The simple reality is that between 14 and 17 the best players in Ireland end up moving abroad overwhelmingly to UK clubs. Hence any youth coach looking to select his best squad is gradually going to move the ratio of homegrown : UK based players towards the latter.

I really don't care where we get them so long as they want to play for us and are good enough to. Grealish was an unfortunate case in that he ultimately didn't want to play for us, but I don't think it serves to prove the overarching point you're trying to make above.

The FAI has also introduced the national U - 19 and U- 17 leagues to aid the pipeline of talented players into the professional / semi - professional game here. They're almost having to drag domestic clubs by the ear into this sphere tbh, as for so long the big LOI clubs neglected youth football. But nontheless the FAI are trying in terms of what they can control structure wise. Bear in mind that they don't control all aspects of the youth game and there are many involved in the likes of the DDSL with financial motivations that don't align with the greater good of Irish football. The FAI can't just click its fingers on some of this stuff unfortunately.

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The FAI has also introduced the national U - 19 and U- 17 leagues to aid the pipeline of talented players into the professional / semi - professional game here. They're almost having to drag domestic clubs by the ear into this sphere tbh, as for so long the big LOI clubs neglected youth football. But nontheless the FAI are trying in terms of what they can control structure wise. Bear in mind that they don't control all aspects of the youth game and there are many involved in the likes of the DDSL with financial motivations that don't align with the greater good of Irish football. The FAI can't just click its fingers on some of this stuff unfortunately.

Isn't U-15s coming on board in a couple of years also? That's the league that the DDSL clubs are most fearful of. It may also force more intermediate teams into senior football, and an appropriate type of feeder league could be made for the PD with some sort of region split First Division, as opposed to the shambles of a first division that we currently have.

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

Isn't U-15s coming on board in a couple of years also? That's the league that the DDSL clubs are most fearful of. It may also force more intermediate teams into senior football, and an appropriate type of feeder league could be made for the PD with some sort of region split First Division, as opposed to the shambles of a first division that we currently have.

That's the plan.

If I had a magic wand, I'd insist the LOI clubs take up the baton in youth football all the way so that we could have a straight through link from the senior game to our youth talent and also that the fees that are received for young players benefit the professional game here. When the likes of Dunphy, etc talk at a high level about how we don't produce players of a certain ilk or the LOI game is left to die it ignores a myriad of structural complexity that the FAI don't control.

It's not that your Cherry Orchards and St Kevins are bad clubs or don't have some good coaches, but their dual focus of winning as much as possible and using the profile that comes from same to get the best players hopeful of a move to the UK and facilitating that move will always pull against any long term national development plan you want to put in place.

UnitedIrishman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That's the plan.

If I had a magic wand, I'd insist the LOI clubs take up the baton in youth football all the way so that we could have a straight through link from the senior game to our youth talent and also that the fees that are received for young players benefit the professional game here. When the likes of Dunphy, etc talk at a high level about how we don't produce players of a certain ilk or the LOI game is left to die it ignores a myriad of structural complexity that the FAI don't control.

It's not that your Cherry Orchards and St Kevins are bad clubs or don't have some good coaches, but their dual focus of winning as much as possible and using the profile that comes from same to get the best players hopeful of a move to the UK and facilitating that move will always pull against any long term national development plan you want to put in place.

A big issue with youth development is the fact that players coming to the LOI clubs (from my side of the country anyways) are normally brought in as they're the best local players from the surrounding counties. However they only get the same level of coaching when they do join up with the big clubs and have to travel 1-2 hours twice a week to do so. That means players either prefer not to go or it becomes pointless when they realise they're not going to make the breakthrough to LOI senior sides because they haven't been developed further.

From speaking to some of the regional area coaches (the ones responsible for training the coaches) it'll be a while before the correct coaching filters down across the board. The country needs to have a certain way of playing from U-19 downwards. But also like in England, they need to make getting the coaching qualifications more accessible and when they do attain their qualifications, put them in place where they can be of benefit.

enzo roco

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well now, in the real world the FAI are giving a lot of time to the best of our homegrown players in the underage development squads. The very youngest squads will be predominantly selected from the DDSL (there are questions to be asked about how well the DDSL and other leagues are scouted of course and that selection process but it's a separate conversation with its own difficulties). .

Your whole post was interesting reading, but didnt wanna quote it all.

But in the real world of underage football in Ireland, there is more than DDSL. Dublin do not have a monopoly of our best young players. I have done scouting in midlands, longford, westmeath etc.
But any parents and players know that the best way to make a career in Ireland is to travel to Dublin to the big clubs. There are a few exceptions, but Im sick of players travelling on the train from Sligo, longford galway etc each week for their dream.

I have a chip on my shoulder about the fai, so Im just ranting here, as I have had some poor experiences with them. Im guessing you have many positives about them from your post.

Corholio

What's all this 'he's willing to come' business. I should fairly hope that he'd be willing to come if he was called up to anything resembling International football. There's plenty of Irish players playing in England who would be ahead of someone like this guy, I don't think people realise the amount of Irish players who play there. It's when it seems an 'oddity' of an Irish player playing in the MLS that we say we should be giving him a go.

Comparing the MLS and the LOI is pointless as well because the LOI is far separated from International football as can possibly be, the F.A.I. have made well sure of this. It's about whether he should be getting invites or call ups to International training or squads and imo absolutely not. Plenty of players ahead of him playing more competitive football against better players.

FatherTed

8-10 wrote: »

TMac, as the American's call him, is an Irish American from New York who holds both an Irish and American passport, and I'm advocating for the FAI to give him a chance to play for Ireland.

I'm expecting plenty of "MLS is shoite" responses, and you wouldn't be wrong - it's pretty poor, but bear with me a sec.

I've watched Patrick Vieira's New York City team a couple of times this season. He's really in at the deep end but definitely appears to be free to experiment with his teams and tactics which is refreshing as you'd get slated in Britain for that.

Tommy McNamara plays in midfield in an attacking role. He's direct and creative and scores a goal here and there. He's training and playing alongside the likes of Andrea Pirlo, David Villa and Frank Lampard (who still hasn't made his NYCFC debut yet!)

Has anybody else seen him play? From limited viewing against questionable opposition in a poor league I admit it's hard to give too much credence to a recommendation - but to me he does look like a player. It seems he would be willing to come if he got a call up.

I'm not saying now, but after the Euro's when some of the more senior players move on, it's clear that we don't have an endless supply of attacking players coming through. I think we could do a lot worse than calling up Tommy to get him into a training camp with the others and do a proper assessment. Not saying we should give him a cap straight off, but since he is willing to listen to the FAI then at least call him up for training to get a gauge for his quality

Recent goals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyfFvvnQf3I

I've been him play, he is so-so. Also, if he's nowhere near the US national team and he's never been capped at US youth level, why would he be good enough for Ireland?

PS I'm going to Yankee Stadium on Saturday to see this shower Man City-lite against NY Red Bulls.

LuckyLloyd

enzo roco wrote: »

Your whole post was interesting reading, but didnt wanna quote it all.

But in the real world of underage football in Ireland, there is more than DDSL. Dublin do not have a monopoly of our best young players. I have done scouting in midlands, longford, westmeath etc.
But any parents and players know that the best way to make a career in Ireland is to travel to Dublin to the big clubs. There are a few exceptions, but Im sick of players travelling on the train from Sligo, longford galway etc each week for their dream.

I have a chip on my shoulder about the fai, so Im just ranting here, as I have had some poor experiences with them. Im guessing you have many positives about them from your post.

I certainly wouldn't go near that far!! But I have to give them credit for the positive steps they are making and within the constraints of limited budgets and structural control they're taking some positive steps.

I definitely agree that the DDSL centric mindset is a problem, and actually think the National League application could help to somewhat address it as the LOI already has an element of regional diversification built in.

monkey9

Nope. I'd rather see some talented LOI players given a chance.

FatherTed

As for how MLS compares to other leagues, this has been discuss numerous times on this forum and I always say the same thing. As I am in the US I watch a lot of the games weekly and go to as many NY Red Bulls game as I can which is about 10 or so a year given I live an hour away from the stadium. I hate doing comparisons against other leagues because people are always trying to one up each other and disapproving it after watching a game or two. It's not exact La Liga but its fun to follow and there are some good players here and there. And it's fun to go to the games.

But like the LOI, it can only get better with the local support instead of armchair/barstool experts to denounce it. So it might by shyte, but it's our shyte.

tonycascarino

If he is not good enough for the USA he is not good enough for us. If he was any good the USA would have capped him long ago like they do with anyone with a hint of eligibility for another nation.