Anyone here work/ed for VHI in Kilkenny?

Digital Society

If so im just wondering how quickly can you move from a Graduate Software Engineer role to a better paid role?

The starting rate for a Grad is atrocious at 22k but wouldnt be so bad if it meant theres a strong chance of being promoted after a short while.

I cant understand why a company would give 22k when others are giving 30k other than greed or they have intentions to promote good workers very quickly.

BrokenArrows

22k is a joke.

9 years ago i was hired in a basic tech support job out of college on 22k in galway. The same company who hired people just to answer the phone were on 20k.
That same company today is paying 24k for people just to answer the phone and not fix anything.

Just ignore the 22k offer and ask for 30k or atleast get 25k with an agreement that it will be raised to 30k after your probationary period.

BrokenArrows

According to Glass Door they are paying their customer service people between 22-24k so they are really lowballing you on 22k.

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/VHI-Healthcare-Kilkenny-Salaries-EI_IE245833.0,14_IL.15,23_IC2709494.htm

14ned

Digital Society wrote: »

If so im just wondering how quickly can you move from a Graduate Software Engineer role to a better paid role?

The starting rate for a Grad is atrocious at 22k but wouldnt be so bad if it meant theres a strong chance of being promoted after a short while.

I cant understand why a company would give 22k when others are giving 30k other than greed or they have intentions to promote good workers very quickly.

I'd have said €20-22k a going rate for a fresh graduate programmer outside Dublin, Cork or Limerick. Entry level salaries have taken a big hit in the past ten years, a lot more supply than before, just getting your foot in the door at all is hard. I'd expect €30k upwards after five years of experience.

Dublin salaries are obviously a bit higher, but not immensely so. The UK pays a lot better for fresh graduates than here, but cost of living is markedly higher.

Niall

BrokenArrows

14ned wrote: »

I'd have said €20-22k a going rate for a fresh graduate programmer outside Dublin, Cork or Limerick. Entry level salaries have taken a big hit in the past ten years, a lot more supply than before, just getting your foot in the door at all is hard. I'd expect €30k upwards after five years of experience.

Dublin salaries are obviously a bit higher, but not immensely so. The UK pays a lot better for fresh graduates than here, but cost of living is markedly higher.

Niall

20-22k for a graduate is a bit of a kick in the teeth when you consider the full minimum wage is 9.15 an hour. If someone is working a 40 hour minimum wage job they are on over 18k a year and probably have the ability to work overtime for extra cash.

14ned

BrokenArrows wrote: »

20-22k for a graduate is a bit of a kick in the teeth when you consider the full minimum wage is 9.15 an hour. If someone is working a 40 hour minimum wage job they are on over 18k a year and probably have the ability to work overtime for extra cash.

I think you're being unrealistic. Entry level salaries for the civil service are around €22k. The median income in Ireland is €28k, so half of all employed people of all ages is earning less than that. You're already well along the way towards that median, more than average non-graduates of your age.

You don't enter a profession for high income, especially initially. You do it for the job security and other benefits and knowing with hard work that in the fullness of time, it'll pay competitively to other things you could have chosen in terms of total lifetime earnings.

If you want to earn a lot of income when young, becoming a TD or an import/export drug dealer are the two highest guaranteed income options I know of for twenty somethings. Both lack job security however, and both require an enormous amount of both luck and hard work to succeed. Nothing comes for free.

Niall

Digital Society

14ned wrote: »

I think you're being unrealistic. Entry level salaries for the civil service are around €22k. The median income in Ireland is €28k, so half of all employed people of all ages is earning less than that. You're already well along the way towards that median, more than average non-graduates of your age.

You don't enter a profession for high income, especially initially. You do it for the job security and other benefits and knowing with hard work that in the fullness of time, it'll pay competitively to other things you could have chosen in terms of total lifetime earnings.

If you want to earn a lot of income when young, becoming a TD or an import/export drug dealer are the two highest guaranteed income options I know of for twenty somethings. Both lack job security however, and both require an enormous amount of both luck and hard work to succeed. Nothing comes for free.

Niall

I notice that in each of your posts you compare all jobs as one rather than say any job should be paid more than others.

The average wage for an IT graduate last year was 28k and that has risen 10% over the last 12 months so im also not sure what you mean when you say graduate wages have taken a hit over the past 10 years.

I never actually asked was it a bad wage as it most certainly is no matter what you compare it to. I didnt even think that part was up for debate to be honest. Paying someone with a valuable degree in CS a bit more than minimum wage is ridiculous no matter what way you look at it.

Basically i wanted to know if anyone here worked there and how likely it is to move up quickly.

Just to compare ive been offered 25k and 28k in other jobs but i think VHI would be the better experience. My main priority is experience and not pay now but i still need something sustainable which 22k or less than 400 euro a week isnt.

14ned

Digital Society wrote: »

I notice that in each of your posts you compare all jobs as one rather than say any job should be paid more than others.

The average wage for an IT graduate last year was 28k and that has risen 10% over the last 12 months so im also not sure what you mean when you say graduate wages have taken a hit over the past 10 years.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The national average includes Dublin and Cork and most of the jobs are in urban centres, so it has a disproportionate effect of raising that number. The job you mentioned is in Kilkenny. You should therefore be comparing to salaries outside the big urban centres.

Here in Mallow, Cork a graduate would expect maybe €18k-20k judging from the jobs I've seen posted locally. Cost of living here is a fraction of Dublin's though, so it's probably not that bad really.

Digital Society wrote: »

I never actually asked was it a bad wage as it most certainly is no matter what you compare it to. I didnt even think that part was up for debate to be honest. Paying someone with a valuable degree in CS a bit more than minimum wage is ridiculous no matter what way you look at it.

I was replying to the person I replied to, not to you the OP.

CS degrees aren't particularly valuable incidentally. They are at the very bottom of the STEM qualifications because there is an enormous supply of graduates every year. And if you think just over minimum wage is bad, talk to a freshly graduated nurse sometime.

Basically i wanted to know if anyone here worked there and how likely it is to move up quickly.

Just to compare ive been offered 25k and 28k in other jobs but i think VHI would be the better experience. My main priority is experience and not pay now but i still need something sustainable which 22k or less than 400 euro a week isnt.

Nobody working for a company will ever publicly comment on that company if they value their job.

As a general rule, large employers tend to advertise one thing in the job spec but actually deploy you onto a small subset of the job requirements. They intentionally make jobs sound far more interesting than they are partially to improve the pool of choice, but also to hire better people than is actually needed in order to build capacity.

tl;dr; Either get what you'll be doing written into your contract before starting (you'll need to be very senior) or accept that the job in practice may vary hugely from the advertised role. It's basically a crapshoot. Therefore most people follow the money and take whatever the highest paying job is, irrespective of what you do at the job. You then upskill yourself in career enhancing skills outside of work.

Niall

mightyreds

Graduate salaries from others in my software development course are ranging from 32 to 39. I was on 22 doing a internship last year I see that as low

Digital Society

14ned wrote: »

Here in Mallow, Cork a graduate would expect maybe €18k-20k judging from the jobs I've seen posted locally. Cost of living here is a fraction of Dublin's though, so it's probably not that bad really.

Ive been searching every site for months and havent seen a single Software job that pays less than 22k. Funnily enough i got 22k for my Work experience aswell.

Can you link me to the jobs you're talking about? Im just curious to see what role it is.

Incidentally today i was offered 28k and a nice annual bonus in a graduate role in Waterford City. The company are also looking for people with 2 years experience for 35-40k so i assume thats what im working towards.

14ned

Digital Society wrote: »

Ive been searching every site for months and havent seen a single Software job that pays less than 22k. Funnily enough i got 22k for my Work experience aswell.

Can you link me to the jobs you're talking about? Im just curious to see what role it is.

I'm not sure if it was advertised online. It was the crowd up in Market Square, they seem to mostly provide outsourcing services for local businesses so basically taking off their hands admin, websites, VoIP, updates, some small bespoke software development. There is another crowd on Main street who do much the same thing, I nearly rented an office from them.

Bread and butter local IT services in other words. Not multinationals. But there are an awful lot of those sorts of job around Ireland, they just don't tend to appear online because they aren't willing to pay recruiters to spam the internet with job postings, and they are locals providing a local service and therefore wanting to hire locals. The large number of these sorts of job tend to drag down the CSO figures, it's why there is such a disconnect between advertised pay rates and the national statistics.

I wouldn't look down on such jobs with mom and pop outfits though. As much as the pay is lower, they tend to be awfully nicer places to work, and family friendly in a way no large employer ever is. You also don't usually need to work too hard, so you've plenty of energy left when you get home for open source work or playing with the kids. I worked for a few years at a place where a 25 hour week was the norm and we all went to the pub for a few drinkies every lunchtime before rolling back into the office. Fond memories.

Digital Society wrote: »

Incidentally today i was offered 28k and a nice annual bonus in a graduate role in Waterford City. The company are also looking for people with 2 years experience for 35-40k so i assume thats what im working towards.

Looks hard to refuse. Seems a bit far from Kilkenny though.

Niall

Digital Society

14ned wrote: »

I'm not sure if it was advertised online. It was the crowd up in Market Square, they seem to mostly provide outsourcing services for local businesses so basically taking off their hands admin, websites, VoIP, updates, some small bespoke software development. There is another crowd on Main street who do much the same thing, I nearly rented an office from them.

Bread and butter local IT services in other words. Not multinationals. But there are an awful lot of those sorts of job around Ireland, they just don't tend to appear online because they aren't willing to pay recruiters to spam the internet with job postings, and they are locals providing a local service and therefore wanting to hire locals. The large number of these sorts of job tend to drag down the CSO figures, it's why there is such a disconnect between advertised pay rates and the national statistics.

I wouldn't look down on such jobs with mom and pop outfits though. As much as the pay is lower, they tend to be awfully nicer places to work, and family friendly in a way no large employer ever is. You also don't usually need to work too hard, so you've plenty of energy left when you get home for open source work or playing with the kids. I worked for a few years at a place where a 25 hour week was the norm and we all went to the pub for a few drinkies every lunchtime before rolling back into the office. Fond memories.



Looks hard to refuse. Seems a bit far from Kilkenny though.

Niall

Its actually about 8 mins from my house.

Kilkenny looked like good experience but the expense of commuting then the low wage wasnt as sustainable as i would like. I was hoping someone would come in and say that you have a good chance of being promoted after 6 months or something.

14ned

Digital Society wrote: »

Its actually about 8 mins from my house.

Kilkenny looked like good experience but the expense of commuting then the low wage wasnt as sustainable as i would like. I was hoping someone would come in and say that you have a good chance of being promoted after 6 months or something.

Personally speaking I'd choose an easy commute over almost anything else. I've had jobs in the past with two hours of commuting per day packed like sardines into some transport tin can, it's great for getting through books and catching up on albums, but otherwise has nothing to recommend it.

Especially given the local job pays a full 27% more and your commute costs will be close to zero, I think you'd be mad to choose the Kilkenny job personally. Use that time saved on your commute to upskill and diversify your skill base outside of work. That's far more likely to get you a promotion.

Niall

Elessar

14ned wrote: »

I'd have said €20-22k a going rate for a fresh graduate programmer outside Dublin, Cork or Limerick. Entry level salaries have taken a big hit in the past ten years, a lot more supply than before, just getting your foot in the door at all is hard. I'd expect €30k upwards after five years of experience.

Dublin salaries are obviously a bit higher, but not immensely so. The UK pays a lot better for fresh graduates than here, but cost of living is markedly higher.

Niall

Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Graduate salaries for software dev positions are in and around 25-30k depending on company, in my experience. After 5 years at it, a good dev can command 60-70k. Obviously depending on the area/stack, and that is a generalisation. But I know exceptions to that on either side (i.e graduate offered 45k with one company after impressing them during placement, and companies employing graduate 'interns' for 0 pay).

Obviously not a hard and fast rule, but from what I've seen, if you've 5 years experience in any particular development area, you won't be earning anywhere as low as 30k.

Digital Society

Elessar wrote: »

Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Graduate salaries for software dev positions are in and around 25-30k depending on company, in my experience. After 5 years at it, a good dev can command 60-70k. Obviously depending on the area/stack, and that is a generalisation. But I know exceptions to that on either side (i.e graduate offered 45k with one company after impressing them during placement, and companies employing graduate 'interns' for 0 pay).

Obviously not a hard and fast rule, but from what I've seen, if you've 5 years experience in any particular development area, you won't be earning anywhere as low as 30k.

My company starts on 28k with annual bonus.

They are now advertising for positions for people with 2 years experience for 40-45k. I can only assume the lads here a few years are on that. If their cars are any indication id guess thats true.

This is in Waterford where a very good house can be had for 120k.

Sad to see companies think that after 4 years of hard work a graduate is worth the same as someone who works in a call center. I use that as an example as VHI is mainly a call centre and i know people in there who had zero interest in education.