A Premiership Season in Review 2015 / 16

LuckyLloyd

It's review time:

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/barclays-premier-league/23/blog/post/2873956/premier-league-report-cards-how-did-your-team-do-this-season

Final Standings

And it's also time for those early predictions for next year that can be mocked relentlessly from a few months time on.

1st: Leicester

Last 10 games form: 2.4ppg

What I'd love to see happen is them keep the current squad together, add one or two starters and play the CL games like Cup Finals - league form be damned. What I expect will happen is at least one high profile sale and the addition of CL football to stratospheric expectations to leave a nasty taste in the mouth come spring 2017.

2nd: Arsenal

Last 10 games form: 1.7ppg

What happens now? Wenger looks to have come to end of the road in my mind.

3rd: Spurs

Last 10 games form: 1.6ppg

Two points from their last twelve allowed Arsenal to pip them much to the (understandable) fury of elements of the fanbase. The much maligned AVB garnered one point more over the course of a season as part of a fifth place finish in 2013. The decision to punt the Europa League tie against Dortmund now seems shortsighted in retrospect. My expectation is a rough ride next season and a potentially rash move from Levy if they don't start at 2ppg or above.

4th: Man City

Last 10 games form: 1.6ppg

Looked a tired team bereft of ideas to finish out the season and practically fell over the line to CL football. The second leg in Madrid underlined the fact that Toure and Kompany are washed up in different ways. Guardiolaball awaits and will be accompanied by a significant overhaul in the summer. I expect them to occupy one of the top four positions in the league at a minimum.

5th: Man Utd

Last 10 games form: 1.9ppg

Third best league form over the last 10 games. :eek: CL football was there to be snatched away and Utd fans will rightly rue a couple of the games down the stretch. Van Gaal should go irrespective of the result on Saturday. What comes next is anyone's guess. Maybe Mourinho is refreshed and ready to play that winning Mourinhoball as opposed to the farceball that defined his last couple of months at Chelsea. Two out of three seasons with no CL football is certainly an odd period for this club and you feel something drastic is required to end the post Ferguson hangover.

6th: Southampton

Last 10 games form: 2.4ppg

Championship winning form to close out the season. It's time for those running the club to show some ****ing ambition; keep the current squad together and try and add a quality player or two to the starting XI. My guess is they won't do that, but there is the possibility of riding their late season form through to a very successful season next year. Dream big, etc.

7th: West Ham

Last 10 games form: 1.6ppg

Had a look at CL down the stretch, but only winning four of the last ten wasn't quite good enough. The new stadium should ensconce a feeling of real positivity around the place during the summer. However, my feeling would be that a real chance has been squandered and I wouldn't be so sure of West Ham pushing on for next season. They'll need to hit bullseye on their transfers as a starting point.

8th: Liverpool

Last 10 games form: 1.6ppg

Must do better (in the league). I could obviously write at most length about Liverpool but my hope for the summer is a focus on quality rather than quantity in terms of additions to the first XI. A full preseason under Kloppball could produce a significant amount of excitement next season, we shall see...

9th: Stoke

Last 10 games form: 0.9ppg

Hughes couldn't maintain good early season performances through the full run of the season and two wins in the last ten tell their own story. If Stoke continue their innovative approach in the transfer market there is no reason not to think of them as safe midtable prospects for next season. I would expect the remaining Irish contingent to be prime candidates for outward shipping as Hughes completes the shaping of the squad in his own image.

10th: Chelsea

Last 10 games form: 1.1ppg

Hiddink couldn't rekindle magic in the CL and the league campaign the second half of the season was rightly compromised by a decision to blood youth and perform a squad development / assessment of sorts. The biographies that spill the beans on exactly what went on during Mourinho's last days will be electric reading no doubt.

The main thing for people to understand however is this aberration is unlikely to be repeated. A new manager and a summer of spending await. I'd as good as lock up one of the top four spots in May 2017 for Chelsea anyway.

11th: Everton

Last 10 games form: 0.9

Martinez has rightly been sacked and leaves an intriguing squad to his successor. Everton's depth is not great, but the core of the starting XI is very good indeed. The likes of Stones and Barkley have probably been overrated and the former's development will benefit from a new manager less retarded when it comes to keeping the ball out of the net. Possibility to jump a few places next year depending on who they appoint and bring in over the summer.

12th: Swansea

Last 10 games form: 1.7ppg

An example of an excellent mid season managerial change, Swansea have finished out the season well becoming a force to be reckoned with again. I find it hard to envisage them finishing many places away from 10th next season barring some disastrous or unexpectedly brilliant transfer moves during the summer.

13th: Watford

Last 10 games form: 0.8ppg

They have made the change and - on a closer review of post Christmas form - it's the right decision. Bournemouth should be doing something similar. If they can keep Deeney and Igahlo and make a couple of additions elsewhere they can be hopeful of staying up.

14th: West Brom

Last 10 games form: 0.7ppg

Were pretty much safe from early March and proceeded to play out April in their flip flops. They managed a couple of gritty draws in recent weeks and I'd imagine will sign well over the summer. I think it is becoming clear that Pulisball is a recipe for survival in the Premiership but not a whole lot more. I would think that long term that will not satisfy the club or the fans.

15th: Crystal Palace

Last 10 games form: 0.9ppg

A win on Saturday would be a fine achievement for the club and Pardew. Maybe the focus of the FA Cup is an excuse for waning league form but - whatever happens Saturday - things need to pick up next year otherwise Pardew will be under pressure relatively early in the season.

16th: Bournemouth

Last 10 games form: 0.4ppg

4 points from their last 30. They are going down next year unless they experience a miracle summer. They will have a very difficult question about whether to ride all the way down with Howe at the helm.

17th: Sunderlandr

Last 10 games form: 1.5ppg

All hail the great escape. Sam delivered as he usually does and while Sunderland fans might feel the club is incapable of keeping themselves out of the mire for any length of time, I would expect them to push on from here and have a much more comfortable year next time out.


General:

8 teams finished the last 10 games of the season running a ppg average of 1.5 - 1.9ppg, and only two teams were above 2ppg (Leicester and Southampton ). This has in many ways been the year where we had a clump of teams all flawed in different ways dragging everyone else down to their level. Looking forward to next year, it is obvious that Leicester and Spurs will not secure CL, and Chelsea will be due a return to normality. So while we may never enjoy a season quite like this one every again, next year should prove to be extremely exciting and a different type of unknown.

It is tempting to suggest the league as being very low in quality, but that statement would exist in the context of a superior return from European football that helped keep the spectre of losing the fourth CL place at bay.

Interested to see what people will take umbrage with from the above. Have at it.

MD1990

I think Sunderland will win the league by 10 points next season. Watmore to lead them to the title. Probably get a new Italian manager in the summer too.

greendom

happy to see your conclusion that Spurs won't make the top 4 next season but not sure why? A young squad who came very close last year and probably the better for that experience. A couple of additions and there's no reason why they shouldn't be challenging again. (hope I'm wrong and you're right though)

enzo roco

Do you write for the sun???
This is awful reading.
You only talk about the last ten games for each team, in a season review????

The words you use really grind my gears, Guardiolaball, Kloopball, Pulisball.
You think managerial changes are good and should happen more often.

Why is it obvious that spurs and Leicester will not get champions league next season????
You forgot about the Newcastle, norwich and villa. So this must be a preview for next season???


This is an awful opening post.

LuckyLloyd

greendom wrote: »

happy to see your conclusion that Spurs won't make the top 4 next season but not sure why? A young squad who came very close last year and probably the better for that experience. A couple of additions and there's no reason why they shouldn't be challenging again. (hope I'm wrong and you're right though)

How close did they come really? 71 points will fail to garner CL most seasons and when they did come really into the league picture after Leicester's West Ham draw they fell apart. I actually think they are too young a squad to deal well with heightened expectations and an additional six high pressure CL fixtures before Christmas.

enzo roco wrote: »

Do you write for the sun???
This is awful reading.
You only talk about the last ten games for each team, in a season review????

The words you use really grind my gears, Guardiolaball, Kloopball, Pulisball.
You think managerial changes are good and should happen more often.

Why is it obvious that spurs and Leicester will not get champions league next season????
You forgot about the Newcastle, norwich and villa. So this must be a preview for next season???


This is an awful opening post.

I focus on the last 10 games of the season because I think that's what matters in terms of predictive value for next season. I also find the question of what happens next season interesting. People are free to talk about the broader stroke of the season if they wish.

I have my own writing style, it's not to everyone's taste.

I do believe managerial changes are good, you are free to argue the opposite to that should you wish?

I didn't forget about the relegated teams. They are gone and have all had poor seasons. Bye bye. Again, discuss their season should you wish!

KaiserGunner

Yeah I don't agree with you when you say that it's obvious Leicester and Tottenham won't get a top 4 place and that Man City and Chelsea are two shoe ins for the top 4. There is no evidence to suggest this yet.
It's way too early anyway IMO to be making predictions about next season.

Chelsea literally finished mid table and there is a lot of work to do there to get them back to the top 4. Man city are hugely flawed too and need a lot of change to their personnel.

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

6th: Southampton

Last 10 games form: 2.4ppg

Championship winning form to close out the season. It's time for those running the club to show some ****ing ambition; keep the current squad together and try and add a quality player or two to the starting XI. My guess is they won't do that, but there is the possibility of riding their late season form through to a very successful season next year. Dream big, etc.

Good write up, but I think you're being very, very harsh here.

2009/10 – 7th (League One)
2010/11 – 2nd (League One)
2011/12 – 2nd (Championship)
2012/13 – 14th (Premier League)
2013/14 – 8th (Premier League)
2014/15 – 7th (Premier League)
2015/16 – 6th (Premier League)

They've made steady progress every year, and for all the plaudits for West Ham, Southampton ended up doing better than them this year.

MD1990

Thread seems more of a look to next season tbh. I don't think the last 10 games of the season has a bearing on next season. Transfer window will as usual be crucial.

Spurs are being overated. They have a small squad & not huge money with a new stadium to fund & a demanding style as well. Pochettino has never managed a team in the CL either. I suspect they will have much more injuries as well.

Icaras

My quick predictions:
Leicester: At the very best will get to the quarter final of the CL (not a bad achievement). With the extra games and pressure they will struggle unless the strengthen with 4 or 5 good signings. Top 6 if they only focus on the league and CL.

Arsenal: Top 4. If they avoid injuries (doubtful) and sign a few tougher players they have a good chance of winning the league.

Spurs: Their self destruct especially in the Chelsea last 20 mins and Newcastle games show they need a bit more experience and leadership on the pitch. I think 1 good signing could have them very close to winning. If Kane, Allie, Alderweireld and Lloris stay injury free they are in a strong position.

City and Chelsea: It depends on how the spend. As above Toure and Kompany have to be replaced, Costa, Hazard, Oscar and Fabregas all under performed this season, I dont think Cahill is great and Terry is obviously on the way out.

Man Utd: I think could be pushing for the title, if De Gea stays (I have heard bits that he want to leave), Rashford stays injury free, Rooney seems to be embracing the midfield roles, signing a solid CB and midfielder and they will be very strong. If Mourinho came in I would put money on them winning (with a lot of boring football). The only trickey bit for them is Thursday night football. If Liverpool win Europa this season Utd will be under pressure to win it next season.

Liverpool: If Chelsea and City spend well Liverpool will finish behind them. I dont think they have the squad to win the PL but with Klopp may attract some good summer signings.

Harry Palmr

A senseless season by many measures - and yet ultimately what happened?

The three worst sides duly went down (the only real debate was whether Sunderland would get relegated), City, Arsenal both qualified for the CL, Man Utd missed by less than a point, Spurs despite going all Spursy at the end improved a bit (points wise) and that was enough for a CL spot. Soton likewise have been on an upward curve and may actually keep the players that matter this time. West Ham did well and yet might well not be in the EL, Liverpool started poorly and with the change of manager took a while to find some consistency and get the goals flowing but made two finals and may win tonight which could have a transforming effect.

Stoke flattered to deceive ultimately, they had some great games. While Hughes has bought well they probably need someone with more flair to push them on a bit. Chelsea along with Leicester City winning the title are the only genuine shock this season, a slow pre-season was never improved upon, they looked a bit old and gassed suddenly.

Swansea acted as Chelsea should have and turned things round quite nicely, they'll never be more than what they are but at the Liberty that should be enough really. Everton ended up reflecting their manager - aesthetic but flaky. He had to go.

Watford did much better than expected in 2015 but 2016 was a bit of a desert for them, whether ditching Quique Flores is the right thing to do is a moot point, the owners do things their way and it's tended to work.

Crystal Palace went from near heroes to near zeros in four months, Pardew seems to be able to work his magic for only so long, once his early energy is expended there appears to be nothing of substance to buttress the success. I could see a change in the summer if they lose the FA Cup. I like Bournemouth, plucky little team trying to play the game in the right spirit, this arguably cost them plenty of points, but so did the injury crisis of important players. Eddie Howe should be backed not sacked.

Sunderland did a Sunderland, surely Allardyce will have enough about him make sure they don't need to do a Sunderland next season.

Norwich are a Championship side and that's where they should stay, Newcastle will be back esp if they keep Rafa Benitez while Villa have been a thoroughgoing disgrace. Worst PL side since Derby Co in 2006/7 I think. Could be a long journey back for them.

Oh yes, West Brom - why?

LuckyLloyd

MD1990 wrote: »

Thread seems more of a look to next season tbh. I don't think the last 10 games of the season has a bearing on next season. Transfer window will as usual be crucial.

Spurs are being overated. They have a small squad & not huge money with a new stadium to fund & a demanding style as well. Pochettino has never managed a team in the CL either. I suspect they will have much more injuries as well.

Surely Leicester's catapult forward off the back of their late season form to round out 2014 / 15 surely challenges that assumption? In a similar way to Liverpool enjoying a good run to end 2012 / 13 and a bad run to finish 2014 / 15 were indicative of how they started the following season.

It's not that signings don't matter of course, but I believe you can see the sides that need much more work than others quite easily.

Sanity_Saviour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I focus on the last 10 games of the season because I think that's what matters in terms of predictive value for next season. I also find the question of what happens next season interesting. People are free to talk about the broader stroke of the season if they wish.

Just a note on this, the last 10 games are probably the least effective predictor of overall form so for all others it would be best to ignore all sections of this article which make reference to it (whatever that leaves!); Last year 1-7 were Chelsea, Leicester, Arsenal, City, Everton, Crystal Palace, Swansea, United

The year before: Liverpool, City, Everton, Stoke, Arsenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace.

What the ppg. from the last 10 games actually shows is how good these teams were in the last 10 games of the season: Barca's ppg. over the last 10 games is 1.5. Stating that this a good metric for predicting how good they will be next year is ludicrous.

Also, the column is strangely knee-jerk considering how good Spurs, Watford and Bournemouth's seasons were:

If Bournemouth were to inexplicably sack Howe they would undoubtedly be relegated.

Do you always rate a whole season on the last game you see? Swansea "a force to be reckoned with"?

Southampton not showing ambition? Did they not just come 5th due to ambitious purchases and performances?

Spurs definitely not getting top 4? Their performances speak otherwise (Double over City, unbeaten against Arsenal, 3rd place?). And the last 10 minutes against Chelsea were an anomaly of a previously impressive and composed season.

If going from 4th to 3rd to 2nd in 3 seasons is the end of the road for Wenger's Arsenal, I'm not really sure what you consider progression to be?

Honestly, this does read like a post-defeat Football365 mail-in section or Sun/Mirror article where anger at losing has to go somewhere, so it transforms into "X manager needs to go" because the real answer requires a bit of thought.

I understand short-term thinking is usually the easier option as there's no actual foresight needed, just pure emotion, but that does write headlines, which is possibly what this is about. And you've gotten a good response so fair enough, job done!

citytillidie

Table spreadsheet style
81 Leicester
80
79
78
77
76
75
74
73
72
71 Arsenal
70 Tottenham
69
68
67
66 Man City Man Utd
65
64
63 Southampton
62 West Ham
61
60 Liverpool
59
58
57
56
55
54
53
52
51 Stoke
50 Chelsea
49
48
47 Everton Swansea
46
45 Watford
44
43 West Brom
42 Crystal Palace Bournemouth
41
40
39 Sunderland
38
37 Newcastle
36
35
34 Norwich
33
32
31
30
29
28
27
26
25
24
23
22
21
20
19
18
17 Aston Villa

LuckyLloyd

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

If going from 4th to 3rd to 2nd in 3 seasons is the end of the road for Wenger's Arsenal, I'm not really sure what you consider progression to be?

Honestly, this does read like a post-defeat Football365 mail-in section or Sun/Mirror article where anger at losing has to go somewhere, so it transforms into "X manager needs to go" because the real answer requires a bit of thought.

To address the latter point first - I don't have any 'post defeat' anger about the league season to work through! Liverpool are in a European final after changing to Klopp mid season. Sunderland have stayed up after bringing Allardyce in following a terrible start. Sacking Monk was good for Swansea. Utd fans are bemoaning the fact Van Gaal wasn't given the bullet and Newcastle fans wish Benitez came in earlier.

The idea of changing managers regularly and not giving them eons of time as was the default thinking in previous eras seems incredibly controversial? I think ideally for Chelsea they would have sent Mourinho on a sabbatical and brought in Hiddink on a short term deal but maybe he wouldn't have bought into that idea himself.

Now to talk about Arsenal specifically, they garnered four fewer points this season than they did in 2014 / 15. I think most Arsenal fans would view this as a tremendous wasted opportunity to win the league considering the way the season developed and will be asking the question about whether Wenger is going to ever be able to put it together so that he can win additional knock out ties in the CL or manage towards 85 points in the league. Their issues as a squad seem similar year in, year out. I'm not seeing the progression and - as part of a post that criticizes me for a limited outlook - simply looking at final placings after an outlier season like this appears to be a flawed line of thinking.

LuckyLloyd

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Just a note on this, the last 10 games are probably the least effective predictor of overall form so for all others it would be best to ignore all sections of this article which make reference to it (whatever that leaves!); Last year 1-7 were Chelsea, Leicester, Arsenal, City, Everton, Crystal Palace, Swansea, United

The year before: Liverpool, City, Everton, Stoke, Arsenal, Chelsea, Crystal Palace.

What the ppg. from the last 10 games actually shows is how good these teams were in the last 10 games of the season: Barca's ppg. over the last 10 games is 1.5. Stating that this a good metric for predicting how good they will be next year is ludicrous.

That seems interesting and those challenge a fundamental assumption I've made about the relevance of late season form as a predictor for the coming season. I'll take it away.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Also, the column is strangely knee-jerk considering how good Spurs, Watford and Bournemouth's seasons were:

If Bournemouth were to inexplicably sack Howe they would undoubtedly be relegated.

Do you always rate a whole season on the last game you see? Swansea "a force to be reckoned with"?

Southampton not showing ambition? Did they not just come 5th due to ambitious purchases and performances?

Spurs definitely not getting top 4? Their performances speak otherwise (Double over City, unbeaten against Arsenal, 3rd place?). And the last 10 minutes against Chelsea were an anomaly of a previously impressive and composed season.

I wouldn't say 'knee jerk' at all! Watford were brilliant before Christmas but have been very poor since then, achieving relegation level results in 2016. Similarly, Bournemouth secured safety in the early portion of the season and have fallen off a cliff since then. Watford have acted, Bournemouth have not. I would say Bournemouth are a certainty to be relegated if Howe stays, barring some utterly unexpected transfer activity in the summer. And for Swansea, they are back to the Swansea we've known for most of their tenure in the Premiership - a tough game for anyone.

Southampton have had a propensity to sell their best players during the previous couple of summers and they took a while to get going this year as a consequence. My suggestion is that resisting moves away for the core of their XI could reap tremendous benefits considering just how good they've been the second half of the season.

My prediction on Spurs is discussed above. People obviously disagree, and that's cool.

Sanity_Saviour

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To address the latter point first - I don't have any 'post defeat' anger about the league season to work through! Liverpool are in a European final after changing to Klopp mid season. Sunderland have stayed up after bringing Allardyce in following a terrible start. Sacking Monk was good for Swansea. Utd fans are bemoaning the fact Van Gaal wasn't given the bullet and Newcastle fans wish Benitez came in earlier.

The idea of changing managers regularly and not giving them eons of time as was the default thinking in previous eras seems incredibly controversial? I think ideally for Chelsea they would have sent Mourinho on a sabbatical and brought in Hiddink on a short term deal but maybe he wouldn't have bought into that idea himself.

Now to talk about Arsenal specifically, they garnered four fewer points this season than they did in 2014 / 15. I think most Arsenal fans would view this as a tremendous wasted opportunity to win the league considering the way the season developed and will be asking the question about whether Wenger is going to ever be able to put it together so that he can win additional knock out ties in the CL or manage towards 85 points in the league. Their issues as a squad seem similar year in, year out. I'm not seeing the progression and - as part of a post that criticizes me for a limited outlook - simply looking at final placings after an outlier season like this appears to be a flawed line of thinking.

I don't understand. Looking at the last 10 games of a season rather than the final placings of a season is more sensible?

And for changing managers mid-season gaining success: Swansea came where they usually would, Newcastle were still relegated, Liverpool came 8th and have historically (if we take the recent past) performed rather well in cup competitions, Sunderland have historically had strong end of season pushes for safety. This evidence suggests teams have regressed to the mean for the most part.

Chelsea is an odd one given last year's success. However, to place their failures (and continued mediocrity under Hiddink) on a slow trigger finger in sacking their manager doesn't seem to add up given key players' consistent lack of form in the post-Mourinho era.

Chopping and changing managers, despite what back page sensationalist articles would tell you, has almost never been successful for teams.

Also you seem to have misunderstood the "post-defeat anger" line. Your way of thinking is in line with those articles/mail-in pieces after defeats, i.e. pure emotion-based short-termism and lack of foresight.

mansize

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialFootballFeed/videos/530013673870899/

A Spurs' fan's view...

LuckyLloyd

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

I don't understand. Looking at the last 10 games of a season rather than the final placings of a season is more sensible?

I didn't say that in the post you quoted. I think looking at 2nd as "progress" for Arsenal when their expectation would have been a minimum of 76 points is not sensible - it ignores all context.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

And for changing managers mid-season gaining success: Swansea came where they usually would, Newcastle were still relegated, Liverpool came 8th and have historically (if we take the recent past) performed rather well in cup competitions, Sunderland have historically had strong end of season pushes for safety. This evidence suggests teams have regressed to the mean for the most part.

Chelsea is an odd one given last year's success. However, to place their failures (and continued mediocrity under Hiddink) on a slow trigger finger in sacking their manager doesn't seem to add up given key players' consistent lack of form in the post-Mourinho era.

Chopping and changing managers, despite what back page sensationalist articles would tell you, has almost never been successful for teams.

- Swansea were not on course to achieve their usual finish. If you are suggesting Monk would have turned them around given more time I guess I can't disprove you - I can definitely disagree however.
- Newcastle looked much better organised and improved their ppg under Benitez to a level that would have seen them safe if stretched out over the full course of a season. They made the change too late.
- Liverpool have had good runs in Cup competitions, but were extremely poor in European competition under Rodgers.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Also you seem to have misunderstood the "post-defeat anger" line. Your way of thinking is in line with those articles/mail-in pieces after defeats, i.e. pure emotion-based short-termism and lack of foresight.

I'm not sure you're one to throw stones given the bolded statement above, but okay I understand your jibe now - thanks for clarifying.

mansize

4,3,2,...

LuckyLloyd

mansize wrote: »

4,3,2,...

As an Arsenal fan, what's your view on Wenger? Do you believe progress is being made?

enzo roco

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The idea of changing managers regularly and not giving them eons of time as was the default thinking in previous eras seems incredibly controversial? I think ideally for Chelsea they would have sent Mourinho on a sabbatical and brought in Hiddink on a short term deal but maybe he wouldn't have bought into that idea himself.

This idea is just nuts...


From your posts, you must love the drama of managers getting the sack.
What managers do you think deserve to stay out of the 17 teams???

I suppose Ranieri might just make it until October. Will Klopp finish out next season?


Sanity saviour is correct in post #16.

LuckyLloyd

enzo roco wrote: »

This idea is just nuts...


From your posts, you must love the drama of managers getting the sack.
What managers do you think deserve to stay out of the 17 teams???

I suppose Ranieri might just make it until October. Will Klopp finish out next season?


Sanity saviour is correct in post #16.

I don't particularly care about the drama, I just think there is an old way of thinking that reckons unless you give managers endless amounts of time you'll never achieve anything. The Ferguson / Wenger dynasty stuff doesn't exist anymore. And it isn't even a question of success - Guardiola wasn't being pushed out the door by Barcelona / Bayern Munich. When the most successful club managers don't want to create long term dynasties it's indicative of the fact the game has changed.

The rest of your post isn't worth addressing.

mansize

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan, what's your view on Wenger? Do you believe progress is being made?

Yes, I am very happy with Arsene Wenger.

Looking at the bigger picture his results and consistency speak for themselves.

Would like a more sustained challenge for the league, but Leicester was awesome this season and wouldn't want to take that from them
2nd in the league is what it is, others faltered early or late, Arsenal did their usual post Xmas slump but recovered well to claim 2nd spot.


A formidable partner for Koscielny, a quality holding midfielder and an World Class Striker would see Arsenal be able make a serious assault on the league next season.

But its easier to say it than get it, and a lot of clubs are hunting for that elusive World Class striker.

I'm happy with Arsenal overall. Maybe if they had been in the Cup a bit longer, but no one has won it more times than Wenger (even though Johnny Giles always claims he disrespected it...)

But 2nd in the league is no mean feat and to pick yourself back up and take it at the end is a credit to all at Arsenal.

I predicted 2nd at the start (was expecting Chelsea to be first....) so Arsenal have met my expectations for the season.

enzo roco

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The rest of your post isn't worth addressing.

Dont address it then, but you are the kind of football fan that will be calling for a manager to get sacked when the PPG is not good enough. Sack em, sack em all.
Which could happen to managers that had great seasons this year.

This time last year, who would have predicted that Jose would be sacked half way through the season???

With fans like you, managers are only as good as their last ten games!!!

Pretty difficult to take any Arsenal fan serious who is happy with Wenger.

SantryRed

How many years have Arsenal been a top class defender, midfielder and striker away from winning the league? I don't think they ever win it under Wenger.

Also, football is in a new era. Sacking underperforming managers is the way forward. No point in taking the risk that they may turn things around if you believe you have found a better man. I'm happy with Watford's decision to not renew Flores second year option and sign Mazzarri. I think Bournemouth are destined for failure next season too (not to say Watford won't be either, but if Sheffield Weds come up too, I'd be pretty confident in staying up.

mansize

SantryRed wrote: »

How many years have Arsenal been a top class defender, midfielder and striker away from winning the league? I don't think they ever win it under Wenger.
.

They already have. 3 times.

mansize

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty difficult to take any Arsenal fan serious who is happy with Wenger.

I don't need you to take me serious(ly) you're alright in that regard.

LuckyLloyd

mansize wrote: »

They already have. 3 times.

True, the Wenger era through to 2006 was a beautiful thing. However, I would suggest that Arsenal look as far away from winning the league now as they ever have done - "2nd" notwithstanding.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

True, the Wenger era through to 2006 was a beautiful thing. However, I would suggest that Arsenal look as far away from winning the league now as they ever have done - "2nd" notwithstanding.

Loving the inverted commas :pac:

HalloweenJack

At the end of the day, Palace, Bournemouth and Watford stayed up on the strength of the first half of their season.

I think it'd be mad to sack the managers there. In the end, Bournemouth and Watford were expected to struggle but they survived relatively comfortably, they weren't involved in the relegation scrap in the last few months of the year. Palace are no great shakes either. They had a great one at the start of the year but fell off the boil and it's their lowest finish since returning to the PL so I think Pardew (especially as a more experienced PL manager than Howe and Flores) deserves more stick than the rest. That said the Cup's saved his skin.

I think Howe and Flores earned the shot at another season in the PL and don't see why people think Howe will get Bournemouth relegated. He might have done poorly in the second half of the year but he's also the manager who got the points in the first half of the year.

Hammer Archer

When you look at West Ham's ppg in the last 10, it does look mediocre. But in 4 games in a row of those last 10 we had massive, game changing and ultimately wrong refereeing decisions go against us. We drew each of those games and without those decisions it would almost certainly have been 4 wins in a row. Those 8 extra points would have technically had us up in 4th had everything else been the same (which obviously isn't guaranteed).

Don't see why we can't push on next season. It was our best ever PL season points wise and the first ever one that we ended with positive goal difference. Our transfers have been fantastic in general (Payet and Lanzini together cost less than Benteke) and our only main needs over the summer are a right back and striker.

As long as Payet doesn't get crocked during the Euros, I'd actually be fairly confident of another good season. Watch us fall flat now.

Icaras

Hammer Archer wrote: »

When you look at West Ham's ppg in the last 10, it does look mediocre.
As long as Payet doesn't get crocked during the Euros, I'd actually be fairly confident of another good season. Watch us fall flat now.

How do you think moving to the new stadium will affect the team and style of play? If ye fill it (and I think it will be filled as long as the team are doing okay) it will be a great atmosphere. Payet staying injury free is the key.

eagle eye

The last ten games of the 14/15 season had Leicester on 2.4ppg, Southampton 2.3, Arsenal 2.0 and Manchester United 1.9 as the top four over that period.

So Leicester finish as they did last season, Southampton up .1, Arsenal down .4 and United remain the same.

patmac

LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.
If you said to any club you would finish 10 points behind Leicester they would deem the season a failure.
My ratings:
Magnificent, Stupendous, Brilliant: Leicester City,
Good: Spurs, Southampton, West Ham, Watford, Bournemouth.
Average: Arsenal, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton, Swansea, WBA, Norwich.
Poor: Crystal Palace, Man City, Sunderland.
Pure shíte: Man Utd, Chelsea,Newcastle.
Utter,utter shíte: Aston Villa.
LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.

LuckyLloyd

HalloweenJack wrote: »

At the end of the day, Palace, Bournemouth and Watford stayed up on the strength of the first half of their season.

I think it'd be mad to sack the managers there. In the end, Bournemouth and Watford were expected to struggle but they survived relatively comfortably, they weren't involved in the relegation scrap in the last few months of the year. Palace are no great shakes either. They had a great one at the start of the year but fell off the boil and it's their lowest finish since returning to the PL so I think Pardew (especially as a more experienced PL manager than Howe and Flores) deserves more stick than the rest. That said the Cup's saved his skin.

I think Howe and Flores earned the shot at another season in the PL and don't see why people think Howe will get Bournemouth relegated. He might have done poorly in the second half of the year but he's also the manager who got the points in the first half of the year.

Ideas go stale. Players stop responding to the same old thing. Opposition coaches and scouts figure you out after playing you before and analysing you in more detail. The idea that you should just ignore the second half of a season because the objective was achieved in the first seems crazy to me.

Bournemouth's premier league form since Christmas:

DLWDWLLDWLWLLWLLLDL

Pts: 19; 1ppg; GD -10

It's been trending in the wrong direction quite obviously. If you bring in a new manager it's a gamble, but to discount the fact it's a gamble in keeping him is folly imo - you're gambling that he manages a re invigoration of things over the summer and addresses creeping weaknesses.

eagle eye

patmac wrote: »

LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.
If you said to any club you would finish 10 points behind Leicester they would deem the season a failure.
My ratings:
Magnificent, Stupendous, Brilliant: Leicester City,
Good: Spurs, Southampton, West Ham, Watford, Bournemouth.
Average: Arsenal, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton, Swansea, WBA, Norwich.
Poor: Crystal Palace, Man City, Sunderland.
Pure shíte: Man Utd, Chelsea,Newcastle.
Utter,utter shíte: Aston Villa.
LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.

No rating for Spurs?

Also United had an average to poor season. People are just failing to realise that Alex Ferguson has retired and there aren't many managers in history that could do what he did.

patmac

eagle eye wrote: »

patmac wrote: »

LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.
If you said to any club you would finish 10 points behind Leicester they would deem the season a failure.
My ratings:
Magnificent, Stupendous, Brilliant: Leicester City,
Good: Spurs, Southampton, West Ham, Watford, Bournemouth.
Average: Arsenal, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton, Swansea, WBA, Norwich.
Poor: Crystal Palace, Man City, Sunderland.
Pure sh te: Man Utd, Chelsea,Newcastle.
Utter,utter sh te: Aston Villa.
LEICESTER WON THE LEAGUE BY 10 POINTS.

No rating for Spurs?

Also United had an average to poor season. People are just failing to realise that Alex Ferguson has retired and there aren't many managers in history that could do what he did.

Spurs are there under good, as a United fan results wise average to poor, football wise utter shoite.