Septic tank perculation area in field.

redbeaard

Is it OK to have cows in a field with a peculation area in it?

The neighbour has their peculation area for their septic tank in my field. It's been there for about 20 years ago, my father agreed to let them at it, didn't see any harm to it.

About 2 years ago I noticed that there was a broken pipe above ground and asked them to sort it out.
It took them a while but they only use it as a holiday home these days so I didn't see much harm in it but a year later they replaced the whole peculation area. Dug a pit about 30 feet square and about down about 2 feet deep. Filled bottom with 2 inch stone then layed pipe on top of that with holes in them. Then put topsoil back on top of that and seeded it.

Looked alright at the time, I stuck a strand of electric around it and kept the cows off it for 6 months.

The problem is now the cows have pouched the hell out of it and it looks like a couple of inches of soil has washed off the top exposing some pretty massive rocks. It is rocky ground to begin with and on a fairly steep hill but this is the only area with stone exposed and sitting about ground. I was even planning on cutting hay on it this year for GLAS.

So I called up yer man that did the work just to ask him to come out and clear up the stones. He didn't sound to happy about it, says he told the neighbour that no cows or heavy machinery should ever be allowed near the whole thing. He's coming out this week to take a look at it.

Would I be right in saying that if he'd just compacted the ground on top of the whole thing that it'd be grand? Is it common to have animals grazing above it?

Base price

I (and my brother) inherited a simular problem when my Uncle died 10 years ago. A neighbours house which was originally part of an out farm that my Uncle bought in the late 80's had their septic tank on the farm land. There was never a problem with the original owners after my Uncle bought the land but when they died the house was sold and a retired couple from the UK bought it.
When my Uncle died the couple tried to claim the piece of ground as theirs even though it was 15'/20' on our side of the hedge and they never to my knowledge ever stood on that side of the fence. They sent a solicitors letter to "the beneficiaries of the estate of ... my late Uncle"
Let's just say I'm no shrinking violet but my Mother intervened to prevent an all out row. The outcome was that they have no claim to the ground but both parties (my brother, I and them) sign a recurring 5 year agreement that allows them to maintain their septic tank but only by prior written agreement until their day. The agreement is not transferable.
We cut the area (except over the septic tank) for hay/silage every year.

Muckit

Big problem all over the country. First thing banks and solicitors look out for now at time of sale of a property because of the legalities and possible disputes that can arise. It was a big problem where an old dwelling house was bought with a farm and subsequently the farmer would purchased sold off the farmhouse if surplus to requirements. Everyone thought it was dandy to just go with the original site boundaries. No regard was given to where the septic tank was or more importantly it's percolation area, if it even had one.

Ideally septic tank and percolation area has to all contained within the house site it pertains to. One of the main reasons a site nowadays has to be a min of half an acre. It allows room for a house and the septic tank/percolation serving it. Years ago it was perfectly acceptable to build or sell a site on quarter/acre with no regard given to septic tank or more importantly the percolation.

Inevitably years down the road rows broke out between the purchasers of the house and the neighbouring farmer regarding the percolation area and septic tank access for emptying. Right of ways or way leaves are messy.

Of course cattle trampling on percolation areas will ruin it. Fecks up soakage and then won' do their job properly . Anyways septic tank and percolation areas on their own are a thing of the past now. Treatment system nearly mandatory at rhis stage in most situations and soil types.

sako 85

Septic tanks maybe a thing of the past. However a mechanical aeration treatment system requires a percolation area too. The only difference is the standard of effluent discharged from a mechanical aeration treatment system is of a higher standard that a septic tank. My opinion in this case is the soil cover over the percolation trenches was not deep enough if the cattle pouched the hell out of it, especially if it had been given 6 months to settle.

49801

Percolation should of been trenches rather then big square cut. Then could of put membrane on top of finall stone layer to prevent soil migrating into stones and blocking it up. This is what we did a number of yrs ago and cattle are on it just fine.

kowtow

sako 85 wrote: »

Septic tanks maybe a thing of the past. However a mechanical aeration treatment system requires a percolation area too.

Is that always the case?

We put one in 20 odd years ago in an environmentally sensitive area in the UK and the council allowed us to discharge straight into the drainage ditch - in fact IIRC they came and tested the effluent at some point to give it all a certificate.

Plant was a bio-digester, klargester - but afaik that's just a bubbling thing?

redbeaard

Thanks for all the replies.

Good to know I'm not the only one anyway and that it can be done right. I'm still waiting on yer man to come out to look at it but at least now he can't try and tell me that cows are never let near peculation areas which I think he was kinda hinting at over the phone.

Good to know the legal aspect too, I don't think they have a right of way to it. As long as they fix it so that it is still functioning farm land then good luck to them.

I must look up the treatment systems that don't need the peculation. My granny's old house next door to us is just after being sold and their tank is caved in, it never worked right, and theirs no space for peculation due to the road, the yard and a stand of trees.

Muckit

If you look at the deeds to your land, any way leave will be shown. I'd be fairly confident that there's nothing. Which leaves that houseowner in a pickle. legally he would have no right to come onto your land or tell you where to put your stock.

That house that was bought next door was it bought by the neighbouring land owner? It was more than likely bought for cash and they tried to save money by not getting an engineers report. Good luck to them now!

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

If you look at the deeds to your land, any way leave will be shown. I'd be fairly confident that there's nothing. Which leaves that houseowner in a pickle. legally he would have no right to come onto your land or tell you where to put your stock.

That house that was bought next door was it bought by the neighbouring land owner? It was more than likely bought for cash and they tried to save money by not getting an engineers report. Good luck to them now!

I wouldn't be that confident it's as cut and dried as you think muckit. I know a case where a landowner was supplying water as part of an access deal to a number of houses. The access deal came apart and the farmer turned off the water. He now has a court order forcing him to supply water in perpetuity to these houses but no longer has his access. The law and judges can be funny on things like this.

ganmo

freedominacup wrote: »

I wouldn't be that confident it's as cut and dried as you think muckit. I know a case where a landowner was supplying water as part of an access deal to a number of houses. The access deal came apart and the farmer turned off the water. He now has a court order forcing him to supply water in perpetuity to these houses but no longer has his access. The law and judges can be funny on things like this.

I don't know if i'd be drinking the water being supplied by someone I'm having a row with, too much opportunity for divilment

Bullocks

ganmo wrote: »

I don't know if i'd be drinking the water being supplied by someone I'm having a row with, too much opportunity for divilment

Or another opportunity to bring him to court !

redbeaard

If you look at the deeds to your land, any way leave will be shown. I'd be fairly confident that there's nothing. Which leaves that houseowner in a pickle. legally he would have no right to come onto your land or tell you where to put your stock.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing on the deeds, I'll have to check with our solicitor. Reminds me, I really need to get photocopies of all these deeds. Basically now I can tell them to fix it the way it isn't interfering with me or they can move it somewhere else.

That house that was bought next door was it bought by the neighbouring land owner? It was more than likely bought for cash and they tried to save money by not getting an engineers report. Good luck to them now!

The granny's house was bought by a Northern couple as a holiday home and I actually warned them that the septic tank was an issue before they bought it. I didn't go into details as I didn't want to be interfering with the sale, wouldn't want to be getting on the wrong side of my auntie. There was an engineer or 2 about a different times but the buyers mightn't have had one. They do have one more option and that's to cross a road and put it into my field there but I presume that'd be much more costly than a modern treatment option.

Miname

redbeaard wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there's nothing on the deeds, I'll have to check with our solicitor. Reminds me, I really need to get photocopies of all these deeds. Basically now I can tell them to fix it the way it isn't interfering with me or they can move it somewhere else.



The granny's house was bought by a Northern couple as a holiday home and I actually warned them that the septic tank was an issue before they bought it. I didn't go into details as I didn't want to be interfering with the sale, wouldn't want to be getting on the wrong side of my auntie. There was an engineer or 2 about a different times but the buyers mightn't have had one. They do have one more option and that's to cross a road and put it into my field there but I presume that'd be much more costly than a modern treatment option.

Are you for real? Are you not just moving the problem from one spot to the other? Why do you have to supply a percolation area for your neighbours.

shrek008

Slightly off topic, but my problem is that my neighbours sewerage has contaminated my well. I bored a well about 5 years ago to suplly water to farm and dwelling house. My neighbours septic tank system is flowing into a drain in my field,it has seeped through the ground and is getting into my water supply. I have told him about this but he just avoids meeting me now, if i insist that he sorts this mess out, can he turn around and tell me that i shouldnt have bored the well there! Anyone with any experience of this kinda thing?

49801

shrek008 wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but my problem is that my neighbours sewerage has contaminated my well. I bored a well about 5 years ago to suplly water to farm and dwelling house. My neighbours septic tank system is flowing into a drain in my field,it has seeped through the ground and is getting into my water supply. I have told him about this but he just avoids meeting me now, if i insist that he sorts this mess out, can he turn around and tell me that i shouldnt have bored the well there! Anyone with any experience of this kinda thing?

Maybe no harm if tank inspectors were doing their rounds in the area

Miname

shrek008 wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but my problem is that my neighbours sewerage has contaminated my well. I bored a well about 5 years ago to suplly water to farm and dwelling house. My neighbours septic tank system is flowing into a drain in my field,it has seeped through the ground and is getting into my water supply. I have told him about this but he just avoids meeting me now, if i insist that he sorts this mess out, can he turn around and tell me that i shouldnt have bored the well there! Anyone with any experience of this kinda thing?

He shouldn't be releasing any pollution I don't think there's any laws on where you put a well.

shrek008

49801 wrote: »

Maybe no harm if tank inspectors were doing their rounds in the area

Yeah i thought of that, but fcuk it id rather not drop him in it, id say they would make him put in a proper pumped system, i hear they cost circa 15-20k! Much prefer if he would agree to compensate me or pay to relocate well, need to know if i on solid ground before i suggest that though!!

J.O. Farmer

Miname wrote: »

He shouldn't be releasing any pollution I don't think there's any laws on where you put a well.

There might be no laws on where to put the well but not much consolidation being right when you're drinking contaminated water. How close is the septic tank to the well is it a good idea to have water from a drain running into a well.

shrek008

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

There might be no laws on where to put the well but not much consolidation being right when you're drinking contaminated water. How close is the septic tank to the well is it a good idea to have water from a drain running into a well.

Drain is not running into the well, septic tank is approx 30 yds from well on other side of the road. Septic tank discharges into drain, drain is all clogged up, discharge lodges in drain and has seeped through the ground, under the road and has made it into the pipe work of my well! Are there filters that can take this stuff outa my well water or do i have to abandon well altogether?

J.O. Farmer

shrek008 wrote: »

Drain is not running into the well, septic tank is approx 30 yds from well on other side of the road. Septic tank discharges into drain, drain is all clogged up, discharge lodges in drain and has seeped through the ground, under the road and has made it into the pipe work of my well! Are there filters that can take this stuff outa my well water or do i have to abandon well altogether?

It is possible to get treatment facilities but it could be very expensive. What sort of contamination are we talking about if it's the discharge going into a drain and seeping through the ground. The ground should have a filtering effect to a point anyway.

longgonesilver

30 yards is not that far. How do you know your water is contaminated?

You can sterilize it with an ultra violet treatment unit, you can filter any solids but you will still be drinking contaminated water.

How deep is the well? how far down is the water? how far down did the drill go before they hit rock? And what type of rock?

The best course of action is to remove the source of contamination first. If the neighbours house is of relatively recent construction he would have had to get planning permission for the septic tank. One of the conditions of this planning permission is that he maintains the tank and percolation area in working order.

Invite him over and give him a glass of water to drink.:p:p

redbeaard

Are you for real? Are you not just moving the problem from one spot to the other? Why do you have to supply a percolation area for your neighbours.

Maybe I am being soft in the head I don't know.

What I should have said for my grannys is that it would suit me if the whole tank (they defiantly own that bit of land) was moved as I could widen a bit yard to make access easier for big lorries.

It's a good general question though.
What would you do if a next door neighbor asked to use your land? Refuse? Ask payment for access or let them buy it for a price?

redbeaard

Slightly off topic, but my problem is that my neighbours sewerage has contaminated my well. I bored a well about 5 years ago to suplly water to farm and dwelling house. My neighbours septic tank system is flowing into a drain in my field,it has seeped through the ground and is getting into my water supply. I have told him about this but he just avoids meeting me now, if i insist that he sorts this mess out, can he turn around and tell me that i shouldnt have bored the well there! Anyone with any experience of this kinda thing?

Did the lads that drilled the well not do a survey beforehand? You'd think they'd at least take a quick look around for a septic tank.

Even if yer man desluges the tank and cleans the drain then it's probably only a matter if time before it gets bad again and that **** can make you very sick so I wouldn't want to be drinking it always worrying about it.

Any kind of unclean water should not be reaching a drain anywhere, that's the law and that's why the EU made us register all the tanks in the country and begin inspecting them. At the rate they're going though it'll be 100's of years before they inspect them all, no exaggeration.

shrek008

Update on well/septic tank problem
Had it out with him this evening, he went mad, told me to clean out the drain and the discharge would get away and make its way to the river!! Told me it was my fault for not maintaining drain! Well borers fault for boring well in that location, Gods fault for all the rain falling n flooding his septic tank! In other words everyones fault except his, said he has no intention of spending money on sorting this. I told him Council would make him put in a pumped treatment system if they got wind of it, he walked off laughing!! Gonna get messy!

shrek008

Update on well/septic tank problem
Had it out with him this evening, he went mad, told me to clean out the drain and the discharge would get away and make its way to the river!! Told me it was my fault for not maintaining drain! Well borers fault for boring well in that location, Gods fault for all the rain falling n flooding his septic tank! In other words everyones fault except his, said he has no intention of spending money on sorting this. I told him Council would make him put in a pumped treatment system if they got wind of it, he walked off laughing!! Gonna get messy!

Muckit

shrek008 wrote: »

I told him Council would make him put in a pumped treatment system if they got wind of it,

Probably. But he'd then qualify for a grant. And things would be done right.

On the other hand he prob has a point about the well. There are min distances for well location from percolation areas depending on the lay of the land.

longgonesilver

Are you using the water? Are your family getting sick?

Unchopped

shrek008 wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but my problem is that my neighbours sewerage has contaminated my well. I bored a well about 5 years ago to suplly water to farm and dwelling house. My neighbours septic tank system is flowing into a drain in my field,it has seeped through the ground and is getting into my water supply. I have told him about this but he just avoids meeting me now, if i insist that he sorts this mess out, can he turn around and tell me that i shouldnt have bored the well there! Anyone with any experience of this kinda thing?

I thought septic tanks and perc areas were not allowed to discharge to any drain or water course.

shrek008

longgonesilver wrote: »

Are you using the water? Are your family getting sick?

No i stopped using the well as soon as i realised there was a problem, we gone back to using the mains water and that is shockingly bad, couldnt drink or make tea with that stuff, we buying bottled water to drink!

shrek008

Unchopped wrote: »

I thought septic tanks and perc areas were not allowed to discharge to any drain or water course.

Yes i thought that too, but this guy reckons there is no place else for it to go! Jesus i hate the thoughts of falling out with the neighbours but he is being such an a***hole

49801

shrek008 wrote: »

Update on well/septic tank problem
Had it out with him this evening, he went mad, told me to clean out the drain and the discharge would get away and make its way to the river!! Told me it was my fault for not maintaining drain! Well borers fault for boring well in that location, Gods fault for all the rain falling n flooding his septic tank! In other words everyones fault except his, said he has no intention of spending money on sorting this. I told him Council would make him put in a pumped treatment system if they got wind of it, he walked off laughing!! Gonna get messy!

Bugger!
Unfortunately to progress you would need law professionals or epa.😡

ganmo

49801 wrote: »

Bugger!
Unfortunately to progress you would need law professionals or epa.😡

id start with the council

Odelay

shrek008 wrote: »

Update on well/septic tank problem
Had it out with him this evening, he went mad, told me to clean out the drain and the discharge would get away and make its way to the river!! Told me it was my fault for not maintaining drain! Well borers fault for boring well in that location, Gods fault for all the rain falling n flooding his septic tank! In other words everyones fault except his, said he has no intention of spending money on sorting this. I told him Council would make him put in a pumped treatment system if they got wind of it, he walked off laughing!! Gonna get messy!

I'd have been very tempted to tell him where to stick his shoite, but that would have gotten messy....