Trying to make sense of window and door quotes

dory

Hello,

Trying to help a friend who is getting windows and a new front and back door installed. The quotes are very different (more than €1k difference) and we can't figure out what to go for - are the windows better or are they just a more expensive company?

Can anyone help us understand? One quote is for westseal white uPVC A rated double glazing - 24mm.
Next one says 'all glass below 800mm in windows and doors will have toughened safety glass. No mention of how thick the double glazing will be (don't know what the 800mm thing is).
Another quote has no specs just - window with opening at top.

Are there any specs we could ask of all companies to see if they're installing the same kind of windows?

Thanks

delfagio

Hi dory,

Just to note that all window companies will have toughened glass if the windows is less than 800mm high.

It's basically for safety, so for example if you had a window which was below 800mm high from the floor and kids/adults trip or fall against the window it won't break causing injury if that makes sense.

The first quite you mentioned has a double glazing which is 24mm thick in total.

Just make sure that the two window companies are quoting for the same windows with the same openings and both are quoting for double glazing if that's what your friend is looking for.

Calahonda52

in fairness a delta of 1k or so is nothing in that quote

there is only one maker of DG glazing units in the 32 and I believe 24 is the norm

dory

Calahonda52 wrote: »

in fairness a delta of 1k or so is nothing in that quote

there is only one maker of DG glazing units in the 32 and I believe 24 is the norm

Not sure what the first sentence means. Are you saying all double glazed windows will basically be the same - difference would be the cost of the workmansip / finish?

dory

delfagio wrote: »

Hi dory,

Just to note that all window companies will have toughened glass if the windows is less than 800mm high.

It's basically for safety, so for example if you had a window which was below 800mm high from the floor and kids/adults trip or fall against the window it won't break causing injury if that makes sense.

The first quite you mentioned has a double glazing which is 24mm thick in total.

Just make sure that the two window companies are quoting for the same windows with the same openings and both are quoting for double glazing if that's what your friend is looking for.

Thanks for that. Just wondering are there specs other than the 24mm we should be asking about? Like, if this was a bike I'd be asking the type of brakes, wheels etc. We have no clue what to ask when it comes to doors and windows. One company had the back doos at €890 and the other €2200. One was full glass one half glass. But back door aside we've no clue what the €1 difference is about.

Gumbo

dory wrote: »

Thanks for that. Just wondering are there specs other than the 24mm we should be asking about? Like, if this was a bike I'd be asking the type of brakes, wheels etc. We have no clue what to ask when it comes to doors and windows. One company had the back doos at €890 and the other €2200. One was full glass one half glass. But back door aside we've no clue what the €1 difference is about.

Have you got a door and window schedule?
Sounds like the two companies quoted for 2 different designs.

delfagio

kceire wrote:

Have you got a door and window schedule? Sounds like the two companies quoted for 2 different designs.

Definitely agree.

Dory it seems like two companies have priced for different windows and doors, you need to make sure you have one requirement that both companies can price for the same.

That way you can compare apples with apples and not apples with oranges

dory

delfagio wrote: »

Definitely agree.

Dory it seems like two companies have priced for different windows and doors, you need to make sure you have one requirement that both companies can price for the same.

That way you can compare apples with apples and not apples with oranges

I know. We're trying to figure out how to have one or two things to compare. But we don't know what they are. We keep Googling - things to ask when getting windows - and it only beings up things like 'Ask are they insured'. We can't find out what are the specs one should be asking about when it comes to windows and doors.

delfagio

dory wrote:

I know. We're trying to figure out how to have one or two things to compare. But we don't know what they are. We keep Googling - things to ask when getting windows - and it only beings up things like 'Ask are they insured'. We can't find out what are the specs one should be asking about when it comes to windows and doors.

I suppose YOU need to tell the window suppliers that you want this type of door and this type of windows with your preferred type of opening. i.e top hung, side opening etc. Then tell them you want it in uPVC or Aluclad, etc and double glazed, triple glazed etc. Then let both suppliers price you that way you know they are pricing the same thing.

Spec wise, you can ask both suppliers for their u-values for the windows and doors, frame widths.

Lower the u value is better. Double glazed units are typically 1.1 - 1.4 u-value

Dardania

The building regulations are always a good guide - achieve the minimum there, and you can then think about adding on specialties.

http://www.environ.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-d-materials-and-workmanship/technical-guidance-documents

E.g. from part L, you can get the minimum u value

or part B you can get guidance on what you should look for in terms of fire egress

or part F you can get guidance on incorporating passive ventilation into the windows (if the rooms don't have ventilation at the moment)

Both of these docs from the Gardai talk about security standards to look for:
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/CP%20Info%20Sheet%20-%20HS3-%20Windows%20-.pdf
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/CP%20Info%20Sheet%20-%20HS%20-%20Doors%20-%202008-09-08.pdf

kceire's advice of doing up a window door schedule (list) is good - just note on each what you want.

Throw it up here if you want it sanity checked.

And as a general, 30,000foot word of advice: focus on what your friend wants/needs, rather than the specific window suppliers way of achieving it.
What I mean by that is say you spec X u value for the windows for energy efficiency. Say vendor A achieves it with double glazing, that's quite thick, and vendor B achieves it with triple glazing that's quite thin - that's each vendor's way of achieving the same end result. Don't get too hung up on each vendors method of achieving the end result until the performance is understood. Then it can be an apples to apples comparison

dory

Thanks for all that. Will have to have a read. The only info we've been given on the documents is that they are A grade windows. Does this mean anything? No mention of u Value. Very hard to know what client wants and ask window person as she has literally no clue.
Cheers!

MicktheMan

dory wrote: »

A grade windows

Meaningless

MAJJ

MicktheMan wrote: »

Meaningless

Exactly. Ask them for their spec sheet. Also, many Irish companies components and specs come from overseas, those larger companies should have better published data.

dory

MicktheMan wrote: »

Meaningless

This is what I thought! Ok, so other than uValue is there anything else? Type of frame? Are they all PVC?

BryanF

dory wrote: »

This is what I thought! Ok, so other than uValue is there anything else? Type of frame? Are they all PVC?

A window specification can be a few lines or several pages. https://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services-(1)/Agrement/WEP/01-WEP-Application-Docs/NSAI_WindowCert_Leaflet_Jul09.aspx

http://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Agrement-Certification/WEP-(Wind-Energy-Performance)-Scheme.aspx

http://www.passivehouse-international.org/index.php?page_id=80

MicktheMan

dory wrote: »

This is what I thought! Ok, so other than uValue is there anything else? Type of frame? Are they all PVC?

Not exhaustive but for starters:
Glazing u-value
Frame u-value
Glazing g-value (the higher the more solar allowed through)
Are frames thermally broken; yes is good, no is no so good
Will the frames be airtightened to the walls and how?
For frame type you have generally timber, upvc & aluclad.
Perhaps a visit a few window/door showrooms would be worthwhile.