BBC Horizon special on vaping [22-5-2016]

8mm

Just a heads up for this upcoming documentary from BBC's Horizon team.

Air date: 22-5-2016

E-Cigarettes - Miracle or Menace?

Michael Mosley investigates the dramatic rise in e-cigarettes in recent years, and questions whether they are a health risk or a better alternative to smoking. He reports on the content of e-cigarettes, meets scientists who are studying their effects and takes up vaping himself to see how it effects his health.

jonski

I have been waiting for this since I heard he took up vaping back in January . I have been watching his documentaries for a good few years and would value his opinion . I'm just hoping now that it's positive .

Zelda247

Thanks for the "Heads Up" I just hope to God its not anything negative as there is enough of that crap about.

Zelda247

jonski wrote: »

I have been waiting for this since I heard he took up vaping back in January . I have been watching his documentaries for a good few years and would value his opinion . I'm just hoping now that it's positive .

Why would he take up Vaping if he is not a ex smoker? guess it must be just for the programme.

TinCool

Zelda247 wrote: »

Why would he take up Vaping if he is not a ex smoker? guess it must be just for the programme.

He's never smoked. From here :- http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2016/horizon-returns

More and more Britons are becoming regular e-cigarette users or ‘vapers’. These e-cigarettes are being hailed by some as the ultimate aid to quitting smoking, and by others as a new public health danger. Until now, the risks of smoking e-cigarettes are still widely unknown and, with regulations set to change next year, Horizon looks at the evidence out there, putting e-cigarettes to the test. In this Horizon first, we will get the answers everyone has been waiting for. Presented by Michael Mosley he puts volunteers through a vaping experiment to explore the unanswered questions. What are e-cigarettes really doing to your health? Are they really better for you than cigarettes? What is actually in them? Is passive vapour harmful? And can they really stop you from smoking? And, just to see what all the fuss is about, Michael - a lifelong ‘non-smoker’ - even takes up the habit himself.

I'm going to watch it out of curiosity to see what slant the non-political BBC puts on it.

8mm

I think having a non-smoker vaping will allow them to record before and after physiological effects and act as a "control" of sorts.

Should be a interesting watch.

lee_baby_simms

Michael Mosley did a quite positive piece about vaping a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huvPuCYoBGs

Zelda247

I am surprised whatever tests etc Michael is doing have not already been done!.... as the British Medical people recently said its better than smoking cigarettes surely they must have done test?. I just hope they don't come out with any negative stuff.

grindle

Zelda247 wrote: »

I am surprised whatever tests etc Michael is doing have not already been done!.... as the British Medical people recently said its better than smoking cigarettes surely they must have done test?

Hundreds of studies have been done, what the public have heard about is a sliver of any certain study skewed to make ecigs look bad.

It's shameful that it's taken until the month preceding the TPD for scientists to form a positive consensus on ecigs considering the wealth of evidence built up so far.
Every negative report on a study debunked soon after. Debunking sloppy science rarely makes the front page!

jno547

Here's a preview of the findings from the programme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B79WvOBPxns

perfectisthe

jno547 wrote: »

Here's a preview of the findings from the programme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B79WvOBPxns

That was really interesting. Sounds like it's going to be a pretty positive piece.

jno547

perfectisthe wrote:

That was really interesting. Sounds like it's going to be a pretty positive piece.

Yeah it sounds good, a lot of common sense in it which is what's badly needed and not the knee jerk reactions from the un educated.
Well worth watching I'd say.

Zelda247

There is some information on the programme on a uk website called. Planet of the Vapes, sorry don't know how to do a link.

Don Imac2

https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/forums/ecig-discussion/in-the-news/threads/horizon-dr-michael-mosley.95560/page-5

jonski

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zyb7tyc

Thecageyone

Set it to record there, because I know I'll forget later

AthAnRi

Looking forward to this.

jno547

AthAnRi wrote:

Looking forward to this.

Worth watching, welcome by the way.:)

Don Imac2

I cannot watch it tonight. Does anyone know when they repeat Horizon programmes during the week?

Thecageyone

Got in on record, will watch now in a bit, just kicking the kids to bed

redkid

This is interesting!!

Some nice mods there too!!

Mightydrumming

Going well so far!

Thecageyone

Now, I have peace, going to get watching it

AthAnRi

Only caught the last 20mins of it but it was good.

redkid

Fairly comprehensive test results there, was even surprised myself a little and Iv a bit of reading done

lee_baby_simms

Interesting stuff in there, broadly along the lines of what I expected.

I think exposure is definitely an issue. Someone who sub ohms through 20ml+ of 3mg every day is far more likely to run into health problems down the road compared to the person who vapes 2 or 3ml of a much higher nic liquid.

Nicotine clearly isn't the biggest cause for concern. Inhaling large volumes of PG/VG with certain flavourings every day might well be.

Hopefully the programme inspires plenty of people to quit cigarettes.

Thecageyone

It was pretty good, nothing really surprising at all, but it was mostly positive. Of course you'll still get the anti-brigade who'll focus on the very few negatives. Nothing new there either then.

Going Forward

There were a bit many special effects in it for me, but an interesting program at the same time.

The flavours concern, was that not already shown to be a questionable experiment in the first place because of the method of carrying out the experiment, a test or tester could deliberately or inadvertently "burn" the liquid and flavours in a trial, which users are unlikely in practice to do??

No mention of varying voltages etc?

There was one test which has been discredited but can't recall which it was.

That reminded me of it.

youdipstick

I recorded it on BBC2 HD & it was only on for 10mins,it was advertised for over an hour.
I found it on YT if anyone else missed it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hu3F_pz1Qg

youdipstick

youdipstick wrote: »

I recorded it on BBC2 HD & it was only on for 10mins,it was advertised for over an hour.
I found it on YT if anyone else missed it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hu3F_pz1Qg

I now know why I missed the programme,the tv guide from the Irish Sun said that it started at 22.25 to 23.30,so the part I watched was the last 10 mins:D:D

Thecageyone

I recorded it on BBC2 HD, was fine. It started at 9:30

grindle

Going Forward wrote: »

The flavours concern, was that not already shown to be a questionable experiment in the first place because of the method of carrying out the experiment, a test or tester could deliberately or inadvertently "burn" the liquid and flavours in a trial, which users are unlikely in practice to do??

No mention of varying voltages etc?

There have been multiple studies that have invalidated their own findings this way, years ago. All properly skewered by Farsalinos.

tommy2bad

That was excellent television, it showed the science behind the closing remarks and covered most of the issues. Yes the experiment they did with the 3 groups was junk as science but it was only done to show how these studies are done rather than to demonstrate effectiveness or harms, improvements.
What will non smokers make of it though? I suspect the ban them brigade will find justification for banning and the supportive will find reasons to support but most won't have watched it and won't care one way or another.

None the less well done to the beeb for this, a bit late but at least it's now out their.

Going Forward

grindle wrote: »

There have been multiple studies that have invalidated their own findings this way, years ago. All properly skewered by Farsalinos.

That's it. I dont know if it was an editing thing or not but the scientist wast just filling a dry new ego clearomizer and hooking it up to a machine and studying the straight vapour from that with no none of the real life practices mention of pre soaking, voltages, temperatures.........

I was quite surprised that Farsalinos didnt get a mention.

sheesh

Going Forward wrote: »

That's it. I dont know if it was an editing thing or not but the scientist wast just filling a dry new ego clearomizer and hooking it up to a machine and studying the straight vapour from that with no none of the real life practices mention of pre soaking, voltages, temperatures.........

I was quite surprised that Farsalinos didnt get a mention.

I would imagine that it is more of a public service broadcast so nothing too specific the take home message is it's way better than smoking but not with out risks.

I was suprised by the menthol flavour causing more damage than the pina colada flavoured juice. It showed that if anything is going to sink vaping it is going to be the flavours.

12Phase

The main issue is there are "unknowns" as vaping is a very recent thing. We will know in 10-20 years what the impact will be.

Regardless of what the ingredients are though, your lungs are only evolved to cope with air. The fact that many of these ingredients and flavours are "food-safe" is largely irrelevant for that reason.

It's safer than smoking as you don't have the burnt and incompletely burnt particles (unless the device is too hot) but inhaling anything deliberately, even just salty water vapour can have impacts you might not expect.

What I took from the documentary was while they're a good quitting aid, non smokers should remain non smokers/non vapers.

Going Forward

12Phase wrote: »

The main issue is there are "unknowns" as vaping is a very recent thing. We will know in 10-20 years what the impact will be.

Regardless of what the ingredients are though, your lungs are only evolved to cope with air. The fact that many of these ingredients and flavours are "food-safe" is largely irrelevant for that reason.

It's safer than smoking as you don't have the burnt and incompletely burnt particles (unless the device is too hot) but inhaling anything deliberately, even just salty water vapour can have impacts you might not expect.

What I took from the documentary was while they're a good quitting aid, non smokers should remain non smokers/non vapers.

Completely makes sense.

But how many vapers want to/could give up now?

Personally I don't and know I wouldn't find it easy, been going strong for 3 years having switched overnight.

But there's always that element of a time bomb ticking away in the background, tempered with the almost absolute knowledge that the alternative would be to have remained smoking!

8mm

I'm curious about the slight inflammatory responses that can happen in the lungs and whether this is a short term break in period for new vapers or an on-going effect.

Could that be a PG or VG intolerance that they have found? Or just an issue with menthol / minty flavours that irritate?

Thecageyone

So many factors weren't touched on. Like the level of nic in the juices tested, what menthol was it? another menthol might run better on the same test. How much are we soaking up in our mouth before it even reaches the lungs? How long does vapour hang around your lungs? seems to me it's in and right back out again. I don't buy quick tets like that without a tonne of info. The most surprising part of the whole docu' was the guy from Big tobacco actually hailing vaping. His tests showed it's about as harmful as ... air

sarahm1994

For anyone interested in e-cigarette research, there will be a free public lecture taking place in University College Cork on Thursday the 26th May at 7pm. The lecture is entitled 'Tobacco and E-Cigarettes: the good, the bad and the ugly’ and will be given by Professor Kenneth Ward a Professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Memphis. Some info below:

Despite considerable progress, tobacco continues to kill more than 5 million people around the world each year. Dr. Ward will provide a brief overview of the history, causes, and consequences of tobacco use, and then discuss what we know about the latest strains in the global tobacco epidemic, and whether e-cigarettes are help or hype.

Professor Ward is the Director of the Division of Social and Behavioural Sciences and his research looks at approaches to reducing the burden of tobacco use and other addictive behaviors. Professor Ward is also a current Fulbright Scholar at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, where he is collaborating on research on smoking cessation in patients with chronic medical conditions.

jonski

Any idea on how Professor Kenneth Ward is leaning as regards vaping ?

Esel

sarahm1994 wrote: »

For anyone interested in e-cigarette research, there will be a free public lecture taking place in University College Cork on Thursday the 26th May at 7pm. The lecture is entitled 'Tobacco and E-Cigarettes: the good, the bad and the ugly’ and will be given by Professor Kenneth Ward a Professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Memphis. Some info below:

Despite considerable progress, tobacco continues to kill more than 5 million people around the world each year. Dr. Ward will provide a brief overview of the history, causes, and consequences of tobacco use, and then discuss what we know about the latest strains in the global tobacco epidemic, and whether e-cigarettes are help or hype.

Professor Ward is the Director of the Division of Social and Behavioural Sciences and his research looks at approaches to reducing the burden of tobacco use and other addictive behaviors. Professor Ward is also a current Fulbright Scholar at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, where he is collaborating on research on smoking cessation in patients with chronic medical conditions.

Four posts on this lecture in the last five hours. Last post before that four years ago. Not slagging, just saying.

What percentage of the lecture will be given to the E-cig phenomenon? Will it just be a postscript?

I won't be there, but maybe some local vapers will; and will report back. If not, could you post a summary or a link to same, please.

tommy2bad

jonski wrote: »

Any idea on how Professor Kenneth Ward is leaning as regards vaping ?

A look at the list of sponsors and grant receipts tell you which side of the fence he sits on.
http://phm2016.ucc.ie/phm-public-lecture/

It would be super if a bunch of vapers could turn up and ask some pertinent questions.

persivald

Hi my fellow vapers!
anyone knows where or when: A Billion Lives (Documentary) will be available here in Ireland?

tommy2bad

persivald wrote: »

Hi my fellow vapers!
anyone knows where or when: A Billion Lives (Documentary) will be available here in Ireland?

I don't think it will get a screening in cinemas here. They did shoot some footage here though, I expect Netflix or one of the streaming channels will be the distribution method. Theirs some talk of putting it on YouTube but I expect they will want to get their investment back before that happens.
It would have been nice to have it for this years vapefest but that option is gone now, shame as a readymade audience like that will be hard to gather any other way.

Zelda247

tommy2bad wrote: »

I don't think it will get a screening in cinemas here. They did shoot some footage here though, I expect Netflix or one of the streaming channels will be the distribution method. Theirs some talk of putting it on YouTube but I expect they will want to get their investment back before that happens.
It would have been nice to have it for this years vapefest but that option is gone now, shame as a readymade audience like that will be hard to gather any other way.

Never heard of this documentary, what is it saying please?

tommy2bad

Zelda247 wrote: »

Never heard of this documentary, what is it saying please?

https://youtu.be/zSq9iqal2cA

Zelda247

tommy2bad wrote: »

https://youtu.be/zSq9iqal2cA

Sounds very interesting indeed, I would love to see it.

Dramatik

Zelda247 wrote: »

Sounds very interesting indeed, I would love to see it.

You can watch it here:

Zelda247

Zelda247 wrote: »

Sounds very interesting indeed, I would love to see it.

no sorry i saw that one its the One Billion Lives I meant.