Question about rights of IP created outside of company hours

salamanca22

Hypothetical Scenario:
John works for a software development house developing software. John has software he develops outside of work in his own time and on his own computer. No company assets are used during the development of this software.

Company finds out about software and puts a claim on said softwares IP based on a clause in contracts saying that the company has rights to any software developed by John inside and outside works hours.

My question: Would this fly in Ireland? I have heard of such cases in the US such as Steve Wozniak working at HP and they having first dibs at anything woz created but have never really heard of it over here.

I am asking this because it is subject of a debate on another forum I frequent but because of the huge amount of different users from different countries I don't think I will get a relevant answer for our jurisdiction.

schaffer

Almost all of my contracts have had this clause and I have had it clarified legally.
I was advised as long as the software is not similar, competing and not using company IP or resources I would be ok legally and the company would have no claim over anything I created.

It is always worthwhile getting this in writing from the company before you sign the contract, even an email will do, as not all employers are aware that this clause is limited.

MarkAnthony

salamanca22, I've an IP exam shortly - if I don't give you a well reasoned, well thought out answer in the next couple of days please abuse me via PM, for motivation. :pac:

Johnboy1951

schaffer wrote: »

Almost all of my contracts have had this clause and I have had it clarified legally.
I was advised as long as the software is not similar, competing and not using company IP or resources I would be ok legally and the company would have no claim over anything I created.

It is always worthwhile getting this in writing from the company before you sign the contract, even an email will do, as not all employers are aware that this clause is limited.

From where does this determination come?
I would think that

the company has rights to any software developed by John inside and outside works hours

is very clear, and as part of a signed contract, it would apply without reservation.

Fred Swanson

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Johnboy1951

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

OK, but has there been no judgement to date, in this jurisdiction, on such a matter?

schaffer

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

From where does this determination come?

Most recently both my solicitor and the company solicitor came to the same conclusion, as well as previous solicitors I've taken advice from on other contracts.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would think that

is very clear, and as part of a signed contract, it would apply without reservation.

From where does your determination come?
Do you know contract law?
Most of these contract clauses are not worth the paper they are written on; and that is coming from many solicitors I know.

If it is as you said, every thing he writes or draws, photographs taken etc belong to the company.....

As I've said earlier it is best to clarify it with the company in writing.

lifeandtimes

schaffer wrote: »

Most of these contract clauses are not worth the paper they are written on; and that is coming from many solicitors I know.

Interesting,

Off topic i know sorry op but id like to ask does that apply to most clauses in the contracts? Example being the company reserves the right to change your duties and responsibilities as they see fit?

Would they hold up in court?

Eugene Norman

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Interesting,

Off topic i know sorry op but id like to ask does that apply to most clauses in the contracts? Example being the company reserves the right to change your duties and responsibilities as they see fit?

Would they hold up in court?

American law isn't Irish law. You can't agree to an illegal contract.

I'm certain that the company doesn't own your time post work.

schaffer

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Interesting,

Off topic i know sorry op but id like to ask does that apply to most clauses in the contracts? Example being the company reserves the right to change your duties and responsibilities as they see fit?

Would they hold up in court?

Let me clarify. A lot of the clauses in the contracts are valid to a point.
I was talking about the ambiguous and restrictive ones such as ownership of all work carried out by employees and restricting them working for another employer for a period of time. All of these can and have been challenged and won in the Irish courts. But it really depends on your particular case.

I believe the clause you mention is not that clear cut. I believe within reason it can be done once it is relevant to your job and the job title. If you were a software engineer and suddenly your new job was cleaning toilets, the clause is not valid. However, if you are told to learn a new programming language then yes it is.

Changing your work hours is the interesting one...