5 year old having poo accidents

Eircom_Sucks

my son at 3 was potty trained , now at 5.5 he is just soiling himself , now he knows he's doing it , like 3 or 4 times a day

he says he's afraid to go as it stings etc , we've gotten stool soffeners etc but still the same , to be honest at times i feel like losing my rag

tonight at 7 he did it , cleaned him and new pants and told him " now no more dirty bums tonight ok , or else you'll go to bed in dirty pants " now i was smiling joking with him and bam 8pm again

whats the best solution , tough love or what

cyning

Have you been to doc to check he's not impacted or anything? Or I know with my much younger girl we got prescribed a gel to numb the area which got over the psychological problem of it stinging. I'd make sure there's nothing physical going on first just in case.

byhookorbycrook

Please don't "tough love", he can;t help it. Maybe he needs a good "clear out" to get back to normal, talk to the gp, they may recommend something like Movicol to clear any impaction and then get back on track.

Eircom_Sucks

cyning wrote: »

Have you been to doc to check he's not impacted or anything? Or I know with my much younger girl we got prescribed a gel to numb the area which got over the psychological problem of it stinging. I'd make sure there's nothing physical going on first just in case.

took him to gp hes fine , its all in his head

Purple410

I pm'd you a resource

theLuggage

He could have gotten a little tear or fissure inside and afraid to go since. Down to the GP (thank goodness it's free now) and get him checked Even if he had a tear that's healed maybe a doctor telling him he's better, or the medicine will help, will get through more than just yourself saying it.

Sorry just saw there you did bring him. No chance it could've been a tear that healed itself??

RentDayBlues

I read an interesting blog about this recently where the mum went to a psychologist about it. They recommended:

1. Buy 7 pairs of white pants and label each with a day of the week
2. He only gets one pair and if they get soiled it's pull ups
3. Buy rubber gloves and make him assist in cleaning the pants, none get thrown out, all have to be reused regardless of stains etc

At 5, they will know that soiling theirs pants is wrong, so if it's definitely not a health issue, I suppose you need to help him get over the anxiety about using the toilet

Eircom_Sucks

told him we'd go shop tommorow and spend his pocket money if he did a big poo

guess what ?

fecking huge one i mean serious weight there ted , he was over the moon , i made a huge deal etc

he's not stupid he knows full well what he us doing

byhookorbycrook

RentDayBlues wrote: »

I read an interesting blog about this recently where the mum went to a psychologist about it. They recommended:

1. Buy 7 pairs of white pants and label each with a day of the week
2. He only gets one pair and if they get soiled it's pull ups
3. Buy rubber gloves and make him assist in cleaning the pants, none get thrown out, all have to be reused regardless of stains etc

At 5, they will know that soiling theirs pants is wrong, so if it's definitely not a health issue, I suppose you need to help him get over the anxiety about using the toilet

I'd imagine that whichever psychologist suggested this has since been struck off?:mad::mad::mad: It's pretty close to abuse in institutions 60 years ago, where children who wet the bed were forced to show their wet sheets to everyone

Sligo1

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I'd imagine that whichever psychologist suggested this has since been struck off?:mad::mad::mad: It's pretty close to abuse in institutions 60 years ago, where children who wet the bed were forced to show their wet sheets to everyone

Note the word "assist" it's hardly abuse if mum or dad is cleaning the mess anyway and gets the child to give them a hand....

Way to many people out there eager to shout abuse at the most simple of things.....

2xj3hplqgsbkym

RentDayBlues wrote: »

I read an interesting blog about this recently where the mum went to a psychologist about it. They recommended:

1. Buy 7 pairs of white pants and label each with a day of the week
2. He only gets one pair and if they get soiled it's pull ups
3. Buy rubber gloves and make him assist in cleaning the pants, none get thrown out, all have to be reused regardless of stains etc

At 5, they will know that soiling theirs pants is wrong, so if it's definitely not a health issue, I suppose you need to help him get over the anxiety about using the toilet

Wow to this!

My 5 year old did this too, like everything it is a phase. It is annoying I know but I certainly would not humiliate him with pull ups. I gave out to him and withdrew treats and tv etc.. ( it was usually if he was too busy watching tv or playing) . 6 months later and it's like a distant memory! You will get there too by just using your own instinct and sense.

byhookorbycrook

Sligo1 wrote: »

Note the word "assist" it's hardly abuse if mum or dad is cleaning the mess anyway and gets the child to give them a hand....

Way to many people out there eager to shout abuse at the most simple of things.....

If a teacher asked the child to "assist" would that be acceptable too?I'm sorry, but I don't think a 5 year old would deliberately soil themselves, unless there were some other serious issue.

Sligo1

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If a teacher asked the child to "assist" would that be acceptable too?I'm sorry, but I don't think a 5 year old would deliberately soil themselves, unless there were some other serious issue.

Would a teacher be expected to clean a 5 year olds soiled underwear?

I'm not saying the a 5 yo would deliberately soil themselves. But your argument doesn't really stand up....

Sligo1

If you went to social services and said sorry, I have a student who poo'ed his pants and his parents asked him to help them clean them... I'd say you'd be laughed out the door.

I'm not for 1 second saying I agree with this "punishment".... But I am saying it's not the "abuse" you seem to think it is....

Sapphire

The punishment doesn't get to the root of the problem though. All it does is further humiliate the child and reinforce feelings of shame.

I'm sympathetic, as we've had several bouts of constipation here and it's very frustrating for a parent. But shaming the child or berating them is not going to help them overcome toileting issues.

The last time we had a bout of constipation the GP suggested getting them to blow bubbles while on the toilet. The blowing breath action relaxes the colon unconsciously making the bowel movement harder to hold onto and distracts them too.

Ensure you add something to your sons diet that keeps his stool nice and soft and he will soon forget it was ever sore. Orange juice worked in this house but other things like pears, prune juice or even liquorice can do the trick depending on the child.

Sligo1

Sapphire wrote: »

The punishment doesn't get to the root of the problem though. All it does is further humiliate the child and reinforce feelings of shame.

I would think that the majority of punishments used don't necessarily get to the root of any problem and inflict feelings of shame.

However, the specific punishment here could in no way be termed "abuse". A term that appears to be used extremely lightly these days. Next thing I'll be sent to social services for shouting at my child for doing Something he was told not to do (10 times quietly first).... Just because it's not acceptable for a teacher to shout at a child. And told its abuse. Now I will welcome the perfect parent patrol who will tell me they have never in their lives shouted at their child and it should not be done.... That's a different scenario but it's seems the in the same context of what a previous poster mentioned.

Anyway OP, I'm really glad your little fella did the doo doo with a little bit of positive reinforcement. That's awesome. Well done.

Sapphire

Sligo1 wrote: »

I would think that the majority of punishments used don't necessarily get to the root of any problem and inflict feelings of shame.

However, the specific punishment here could in no way be termed "abuse". A term that appears to be used extremely lightly these days. Next thing I'll be sent to social services for shouting at my child for doing Something he was told not to do (10 times quietly first).... Just because it's not acceptable for a teacher to shout at a child. And told its abuse. Now I will welcome the perfect parent patrol who will tell me they have never in their lives shouted at their child and it should not be done.... That's a different scenario but it's seems the in the same context of what a previous poster mentioned.

Anyway OP, I'm really glad your little fella did the doo doo with a little bit of positive reinforcement. That's awesome. Well done.

I never mentioned or alluded to abuse in my post, so I think you've taken me up wrong.

Just because I personally disagree that this issue might warrant punishment it does not mean that I would think the parent who would punish that way is abusive. But I do think that there could be a psychological or fearful reason for soiling, and a parent punishing a child might inadvertently compound the issue (and the poo!)

I was a bed-wetter who got hit with a stick when I wet the bed (the standard punishment of the day). Now I know that it was a fairly common hormone deficiency causing it and a simple tablet would have sorted me out. My mother crumpled when I told about the hormone (we were discussing potty training and it came up) and she realised what she'd done all those years ago and felt awful, but she didn't know at the time, she thought I was just being naughty or lazy and thought that punishing me would sort it out. I'd have loved to be handed the marigolds and the Daz as an alternative punishment (in fact I often tried to clean up myself at that young age regardless) I didn't need my parents to shame me, I was already doing a great job by myself on that.

For some kids, soiling or bed-wetting could be a psychological issue - a fear of pain with hard stools or a recent bladder infection that takes a little time to fade in their minds. Or a reaction to a big change in their lives. It could be lots of things but it's very rarely a child being deliberately or calculatingly naughty.

And I can see where the OP is coming from, its hugely frustrating as a parent dealing with it, especially when the child is old enough to know to go to the bathroom, when you've talked and explained and bribed. I had a month long vicious circle of constipation/soiling/ toilet refusal last year with my child. It was worse than the colic months. But reading up on constipation and the complications it can cause if prolonged, the last thing I wanted to do was inadvertently make it worse by having a child not only afraid to use the loo but also afraid of getting punished too like I was.

Sligo1

Sapphire wrote: »

I never mentioned or alluded to abuse in my post, so I think you've taken me up wrong.

Just because I personally disagree that this issue might warrant punishment it does not mean that I would think the parent who would punish that way is abusive. But I do think that there could be a psychological or fearful reason for soiling, and a parent punishing a child might inadvertently compound the issue (and the poo!)

I was a bed-wetter who got hit with a stick when I wet the bed (the standard punishment of the day). Now I know that it was a fairly common hormone deficiency causing it and a simple tablet would have sorted me out. My mother crumpled when I told about the hormone (we were discussing potty training and it came up) and she realised what she'd done all those years ago and felt awful, but she didn't know at the time, she thought I was just being naughty or lazy and thought that punishing me would sort it out. I'd have loved to be handed the marigolds and the Daz as an alternative punishment (in fact I often tried to clean up myself at that young age regardless) I didn't need my parents to shame me, I was already doing a great job by myself on that.

For some kids, soiling or bed-wetting could be a psychological issue - a fear of pain with hard stools or a recent bladder infection that takes a little time to fade in their minds. Or a reaction to a big change in their lives. It could be lots of things but it's very rarely a child being deliberately or calculatingly naughty.

And I can see where the OP is coming from, its hugely frustrating as a parent dealing with it, especially when the child is old enough to know to go to the bathroom, when you've talked and explained and bribed. I had a month long vicious circle of constipation/soiling/ toilet refusal last year with my child. It was worse than the colic months. But reading up on constipation and the complications it can cause if prolonged, the last thing I wanted to do was inadvertently make it worse by having a child not only afraid to use the loo but also afraid of getting punished too like I was.

Apologies, I agree with you and I know you never used the term abuse. I was referring to a previous poster. I think your points are very valid.

IvyTheTerrible

I know from experience that soiling is very frustrating but if it is "all in his head" punishment will only make it worse. My son got badly constipated when I stopped breastfeeding him. The chronic and extremely painful constipation lasted on and off for over a year and after the first "bout" it was all psychological, i.e. not wanting to poo because of the fear of pain. This often resulted in repeating "mini" poos every day (not really soilings because he wasn't toilet trained at that stage). Honestly, the only thing that really resolved the issue was him getting old enough for us to be able to explain to him that if he did a poo everyday, he wouldn't hurt anymore. And now he's 4 years old, we still have to watch his diet and make sure he goes for a poo every morning without fail or the problem returns. I think if you give him a routine of setting aside a time in the day (morning after breakfast is good, because the system will have had time to wake up) to go for a poo. Give him a reward when he has a day with a single proper poo in the morning and no soiling incidents.

theLuggage

Just on the assisting to clean soiled underwear. It does not mean it's a punishment necessarily. Does it not depend on how it's done?

I mean if you are there shouting or being angry and giving out along the lines of "Look what you did" "now you have it clean it up" etc, then obviously that's a punishment, and not one I personally would use.

But if you were calm and matter of fact and saying "Oh dear, well that happens but look now we need to give these pants an extra scrub because the machine won't clean them properly" or equivalent. Is this not just teaching a consequence? You poo your pants, it has to be cleaned. Let's save the consequence next time by trying not to do that again.

Thoughts?

Sapphire

theLuggage wrote: »

Just on the assisting to clean soiled underwear. It does not mean it's a punishment necessarily. Does it not depend on how it's done?

I mean if you are there shouting or being angry and giving out along the lines of "Look what you did" "now you have it clean it up" etc, then obviously that's a punishment, and not one I personally would use.

But if you were calm and matter of fact and saying "Oh dear, well that happens but look now we need to give these pants an extra scrub because the machine won't clean them properly" or equivalent. Is this not just teaching a consequence? You poo your pants, it has to be cleaned. Let's save the consequence next time by trying not to do that again.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I don't see anything necessarily wrong with that. That's how I handled the puddles during potty training. But if the child was very distressed at the soiling then maybe I'd just stick to reassurance -it would really depend, you know?

Sligo1

theLuggage wrote: »

Just on the assisting to clean soiled underwear. It does not mean it's a punishment necessarily. Does it not depend on how it's done?

I mean if you are there shouting or being angry and giving out along the lines of "Look what you did" "now you have it clean it up" etc, then obviously that's a punishment, and not one I personally would use.

But if you were calm and matter of fact and saying "Oh dear, well that happens but look now we need to give these pants an extra scrub because the machine won't clean them properly" or equivalent. Is this not just teaching a consequence? You poo your pants, it has to be cleaned. Let's save the consequence next time by trying not to do that again.

Thoughts?

This is exactly how I would've viewed the word "assist" and How I would've viewed the initial point made. More as a consequence and helping to clean as opposed to a shameful punishment as such.

RentDayBlues

As the person who started this debate on "assisting", the case I was talking about was a 5 year old who soiling themselves without any evidence of pain or psychological issues. When he would have an accident his parents would throw out his soiled pants and were in a cycle of buying new ones, similar to nappies! The child seemed aware that it wasn't appropriate but often felt too busy to use the toilet and new pants were available.

The assisting wasn't meant to shame him, it was meant as a way to understand that he needed to use the toilet not his pants, but if he insisted on doing otherwise then he would have to help to clean the mess. No shouting or shaming, simply facing the consequences of his decision.

Obviously I didn't explain it well and some posters took a very different meaning from what I posted, but no child was harmed in the making of my post! OP, glad you're making headway

Mink

OP we just went through this with my 3.5yr old for past 5-6mths.

I had completely ruled out physical issues - no constipation, soft stools, didn't hurt him, he knew when he was due to go.

I ruled out any emotional trauma/major anxiety etc. He was/is a happy little kid.

We had tried little treats, reward charts, waiting it out, getting him to clean his own pants etc. All to no avail.

Much like yourself, what got us over the hump was balancing positive reinforcement / a highly coveted toy (bribe) / lots of explaining re the body & why the poo has to come out / some giving out - ie make sure he knew that we were cross when he poo'd his pants as he knew he was supposed to go in the loo (I'm talking just being stern, we don't shout at him or hit).

A couple of days and it worked & I never saw a child so delighted with himself and so proud. It was 100% the right combo of things for our child. They are all different.