Establishing wild bird cover, two year mix

eoinmk2

Looking for the cheapest way to establish a wild bird cover crop for GLAS,
plan on going for the two year mix i.e. kale with either linseed, triticale or oats as I plan on letting a few pheasants off in it for the shooting season.

Its going into a grass field with is currently being grazed off.

Looking for the cheapest way to do it, money is tight at the moment so we are not exactly interested is the best looking crop in the world, just to get stuff in. Have to put the full 3 ha in

any suggestions welcome

mallards

I did my own a few times, with different types of cover. Kale, mustard, triticale usually. Just ploughed the soil in May, harrowed a couple days later in the dry weather. Sowed it with fertilizer hopper with some fertilizer. My two top tips is get it in now, as the closer to the end of this month, won't give the triticale time to mature. Second thing I found is do it in strips, if you do the entire field it will be too thick for the pheasants and you will only find them around the edge.

eoinmk2

would you have to plough it?
was thinking if we sprayed it off after the grazing, then power harrow it just to get the soil up, then broadcast the seed, then roll?

Have zero experience with this kind of thing so I could be completely wrong,
we have been in permanent grass as long as I can remember.

strips sound like a good job. cheers for that!

jimmy G M

The crops need to be sown by 01/06 so there is still some time.
What ever you sow you will need receipts for the seed purchased in case of inspection.
My understanding is that you can't sow in alternating strips, ie it needs to be a block of kale and a block of oats. Oats will be re-sown next year, kale not re-seeded till the following year.

Did circa 2.5 ha of bird cover here this year, went with kale and oats. Contractor ploughed and I harrowed with disk harrow 3 times. Broadcast all seed with the fert spreader, oats as was, but I mixed kale seed with a bag of manure to bulk it up a little and went with a narrower spreading width. Covered the oats with a chain harrow and rolled, but just rolled the kale seed in.

Field has not been ploughed in living memory and had some rushes, so ploughed this year. In future i am hoping to disk only. depending on the land you have, power harrowing a number of times should work too.

What ever way you do it, you will need to ensure that a reasonable crop has been established, as ploughing contractor was at some kind of agri-contractors conference and word was that inspectors would be watching out for people who were cutting corners.

Cavanjack

Tis important to sow it right. We don't want the crows dying of the hunger next winter!!!'

mallards

eoinmk2 wrote: »

would you have to plough it?
was thinking if we sprayed it off after the grazing, then power harrow it just to get the soil up, then broadcast the seed, then roll?

I wasn't in a scheme for it so im not sure of its requirements. But the first year I did it, I sprayed off, power harrowed it, sowed it by hand with a fiddle, then rolled. The mixes I was using were two year rotations so next time around, the soil was nice and light, so just had to plough and chain harrow, sow, then roll. Always turns out pretty good. If you do go with the strips, I also put a few feeders in the rows and these heels the Pheasants well until the mustard and triticale matured. You will find weeds will build up on the strips you don't plough but then every second year I ploughed those strips instead and let the others go. Works out pretty well. Eventually I'll sow it back to grass, it had quite a few rushes in it before I started and now the soil it's in excellent shape.

blue5000

Have sown rape with an achison (splleeing)? seeder after spraying off with roundup, no ploughing rolling or stone picking, €25 an acre + the seed and 1 bag of 50%K and 1 bag of CAN to the acre. That was in august one year I was locked up and tight on feed.

Problem with these crops going to seed is that they'll be there for generations. My grandfather sowed vetch in the 1950's and it's still growing in the hedges here.

yosemitesam1

blue5000 wrote: »

Problem with these crops going to seed is that they'll be there for generations. My grandfather sowed vetch in the 1950's and it's still growing in the hedges here.

Are there limitations on what you can sow, if you could have red/sweet clover, chicory and a few others popping up for years it mightnt be a bad thing...

blue5000

http://www.farmfile.ie/AEOS2Wild

scroll down near the end of this. Not in glas myself.

mrwonder

Where can one buy these seeds? Can't seem to find them anywhere around kerry/limerick.

Water John

Any agent of Goldcrop would have it. Think there is one in Ballyvourney. will get a name.

eoinmk2

just off the phone with a seed merchant there and he was saying you have to put in 50:50 of kale:oats/linseed. so half the field in kale and half in oats/linseed. you have to resow the oats/linseed annually. so that should work with the strips as long as we leave the right spacing between them so its easy to resow oats/linseed next year. he was also saying the kale is hard to sow as the seed is so small. he said most lads are using garden spreaders, or doing it by hand

Mallard, whats a fiddle? and where would I get one?

still no closer to deciding on how to prepare the seedbed. the father was saying we could just plough it, then roll it a few times. that would level it enough to sow. im not so sure. would this work?

just recently learned that power harrowing will be expensive if we were to go that route as it burns a lot of diesel.

anyone know what the going rate is for power harrowing, ploughing, disking, etc?

Water John

Not sure that is right Eoin on half and half.
I think you set oats/linseed in year one, on all the ground.
Kale year two, on all the ground.

Your Da is right, no need to over do the tilling, you need enough soil to cover the seed. A couple of runs of a leveller after ploughing. The worry is with linseed being so small that it could get buried too deep when covering.
I think I will use a precision drill.

eoinmk2

are you sure? I thought that because kale is a biennial that's why is left for two years.

grand, if that's the case we might just plough so and roll it so. waiting on our contractor to get back to us on what he thinks

cheers

Water John

I'm not sure. That's why I said it.
Its sort of confusing. I'm going with a one year mix of oats and linseed over all the hectare this time.
If you use a brassica, the half and half comes in, I think.

We could both be right.

mallards

This is my fiddle, it's about seventy years old so not sure if they still make them? You can broadcast by hand as well, but I found the fiddle to make a better job of it. I plant the kale and triticale or linseed at the same time. Triticale and linseed seed the first year then die, kale seeds the second, or sometimes the first if it's in very early.

Water John

Those fiddles were a lovely bit of kit.
Uncle had one.

Capercaillie

eoinmk2 wrote: »

just off the phone with a seed merchant there and he was saying you have to put in 50:50 of kale:oats/linseed. so half the field in kale and half in oats/linseed. you have to resow the oats/linseed annually. so that should work with the strips as long as we leave the right spacing between them so its easy to resow oats/linseed next year. he was also saying the kale is hard to sow as the seed is so small. he said most lads are using garden spreaders, or doing it by hand

Mallard, whats a fiddle? and where would I get one?

still no closer to deciding on how to prepare the seedbed. the father was saying we could just plough it, then roll it a few times. that would level it enough to sow. im not so sure. would this work?

just recently learned that power harrowing will be expensive if we were to go that route as it burns a lot of diesel.

anyone know what the going rate is for power harrowing, ploughing, disking, etc?

I sprayed 0.25 acres myself. Got contractor to plough, rotovate. I broadcast with myself with seed fiddle: 14kg triticale, 1kg mustard and 0.5kg kale. I mixed kale/mustard together and spread. Spread triticale separate. Got contractor to chain harrow and roll. I spread 10-10-20 at 100kg/acre and lime 50kg/acre myself. Contractor charged me 215 euros (plus vat).
I bought this seed spreader (fiddle). Ag consultant said don't let contractor spread it with fertilser spreader, you will get uneven spread.
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-SS100-Spreader-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B006GXP2Y4

larthehar

Sowed oats and linseed here for year one
-plough
-till
-sow oats with wagtail 100kg/ha
-spread fert to maintain p and k
- harrowed in
-sow linseed with wagtail 20kg/ha
-roll

oh.. and pick stones!!!!

Base price

eoinmk2 wrote: »

are you sure? I thought that because kale is a biennial that's why is left for two years.

grand, if that's the case we might just plough so and roll it so. waiting on our contractor to get back to us on what he thinks

cheers

According to the GLAS conditions you cannot sow kale in alternative strips. As another poster said you can sow half the plot with kale which remains in place for 2 years but you have to reseed the other half oats, oilseed rape etc annually. Here is a link to the GLAS conditions, WBC is page 54. Did you not receive a copy of the conditions from Dept or your advisor. https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/glastranche1/GLASTranche1Spec161015.pdf

20silkcut

larthehar wrote: »

Sowed oats and linseed here for year one
-plough
-till
-sow oats with wagtail 100kg/ha
-spread fert to maintain p and k
- harrowed in
-sow linseed with wagtail 20kg/ha
-roll

oh.. and pick stones!!!!

Why pick stones if it's not been mowed or cut

Water John

Picking stones is in our DNA.

Capercaillie

Water John wrote: »

Picking stones is in our DNA.

i couldn't resist picking the stones out either.

Base price

Capercaillie wrote: »

i couldn't resist picking the stones out either.

Me too
Also when the scheme ends and your areas revert to grassland your better off having picked the offending stones every year so that you have nice clean pasture to top/mow.

larthehar

20silkcut wrote: »

Why pick stones if it's not been mowed or cut

Like the lads said.. this wild bird cover is not infinite, I see lads sowing in lea with no lime or fert talking about how much money they are saving.
All that is happening is they are dropping the soil pH and the indexes..
stones are the same.. if you are ploughing next year what will the stones do?!

20silkcut

Base price wrote: »

Me too
Also when the scheme ends and your areas revert to grassland your better off having picked the offending stones every year so that you have nice clean pasture to top/mow.

Sure won't you be ploughing/ harrowing again at that stage. Burying some and bring up more.
Leave stone picking till then and your only doing it once.

20silkcut

larthehar wrote: »

Like the lads said.. this wild bird cover is not infinite, I see lads sowing in lea with no lime or fert talking about how much money they are saving.
All that is happening is they are dropping the soil pH and the indexes..
stones are the same.. if you are ploughing next year what will the stones do?!

Why would you plough next year if it's a two year mix. Stones won't damage a plough.

larthehar

20silkcut wrote: »

Why would you plough next year if it's a two year mix. Stones won't damage a plough.

Linseed and oats are annual crops so will have to Plough next year.. plainly bad practice to try and Plough stones back into the ground.. To be clear stones that I am referring to are ones that won't roll in. Cleaner trash burying, more level furrow..

nilhg

Sowed a mixture or oats and linseed here, did a proper job with the one pass, it seems the crows have done a great job of digging up and eating all the oat seed so it looks like the rest of their feathered cousins will have to make do with a diet of linseed this winter.......

eoinmk2

Was talking to our glas advisor there. Base price is right about the 50:50 for the two year mix. i.e. half the field goes into kale and is left for two years and the other half of the field is redone yearly with a one year mix. thanks for that

ground is being sprayed off in the next few days when we get the weather, then ploughed. decided to plough it as it will hopefully make the re-sow next year easier. after that we have to decide on how to sow it, on the fence on weather to go all out and just pay to get it done with the one pass, or try do it ourselves with fiddles/broadcast. its not as expensive as I thought for the one pass, so we might just go with it.