Bad news for Dublin shoppers

KingBrian2

Another well known Department store is shutting its premises. First we had the famous Clery's around since the time of 1916 and now British retailer Debenhams is to close.:(

It goes to show big or small if your products are not bringing in the consumer than the market can be devastating. On the bright side the staff can take their experiences with them when looking for another job.:cool:

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/interim-examiner-appointed-to-debenhams-ireland-after-years-of-losses-1.2645575

athtrasna

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Another well known Department store is shutting its premises. First we had the famous Clery's around since the time of 1916 and now British retailer Debenhams is to close.:(

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/interim-examiner-appointed-to-debenhams-ireland-after-years-of-losses-1.2645575

Where does it say it's closing? Examinership does not equal closure. Ask Mothercare and B&Q!

L1011

Its very unlikely the Dublin branches will close. Down the sticks they might

As well as athtrasna's examples Best Menswear, Homebase, Besteller (Jack Jones/Vera Moda), Elverys and others have exited examinership

KingBrian2

athtrasna wrote: »

Where does it say it's closing? Examinership does not equal closure. Ask Mothercare and B&Q!

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

athtrasna

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

Clery's closed in receivership not examinership afaik

L1011

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It could very easily go the way of Clery's which would indeed be a sad day for Dublin.

Clerys was one store with a vastly valuable building to sell out under it.

Debenhams lease their stores - plural - many off the Roche family of Roches Stores.

It is extremely unlikely they will close all their stores in Dublin if even any.

KingBrian2

Even if I altered my caption to explain that Debenhams is not closing at the moment that does not prevent the fact that their is potential layoffs to come, cost saving measures to be taken. Not something to be thrilled about.

ED E

Clerys is a poor comparison as they were in trouble for years then had the roof come down on the lobby which would be a big deal for a thriving business.

Jaymayo91

Admit it Brian, you're wrong ðŸ˜

newacc2015

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Even if I altered my caption to explain that Debenhams is not closing at the moment that does not prevent the fact that their is potential layoffs to come, cost saving measures to be taken. Not something to be thrilled about.

Examierships are usually done to negotiate rent reductions. Look at it this way. If there is lay offs, the store can remain competitive and stay open. There is a chance of a majority of staff keeping their jobs. Or they keep their existing staff level and shutter all the stores in a few years in liquidation.

At the end of the day, it is a business to make profit.

MarkAnthony

Interesting this went into Examinership rather than Administration as most retailers with a UK base does. I assume it's purely the Irish arm, I'll have to do some digging on this one. I smell extra marks in Company law next week :pac:

eeguy

Slim chance of Dublin stores closing.

I'd imagine well hear of one or two down the country shutting up but that's the height of it.

Homebase went into examinership a few years back and closed 2 of 15 stores.

Chances are rents will be renegotiated and they'll move people around and let some go.

L1011

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Interesting this went into Examinership rather than Administration as most retailers with a UK base does. I assume it's purely the Irish arm, I'll have to do some digging on this one. I smell extra marks in Company law next week :pac:

Its purely the Irish arm. UK parent is profitable. Irish arm owes UK parent eight figures.

Cody montana

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

irishmoss

If you mean why leave Dublin and close some countrywide the answer is profit, those that make the most will be kept

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

KingBrian2

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

As has already being mentioned business operates on the premise of making a profit. Concurrent losses = bankruptcy.

MarkAnthony

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

Most of us do I'm afraid. We also have all the money :pac:

newacc2015

Cody montana wrote: »

Yeah, what about the rest of the stores in Ireland?
Why ONLY Dublin, not all of us reside there!

I imagine a majority of sales are in Dublin, as it is the largest and wealthiest region in Ireland for any retail business. Over 40% of the population actually live in the GDA. Not everyone lives in Dublin, but nearly half of the country lives in it or right beside it

Their lease on Henry St must be worth a small fortune in comparison to a lease in somewhere like Tralee where I seriously doubt anyone else would take it over. Dublin has a strong economy which benefits from tourist. I seriously doubt any of their stores outside Dublin are in anyway close to levels of sales in their Dublin stores

hullaballoo

Examinership is just the protection of the Court that prevents the company being put into liquidation while it restructures due to the inevitable temporary insolvency this entails. It's a fixed period of time (70 days that can be extended to 100 days).

It is the least worrying of things that companies can go into.

Eugene Norman

irishmoss wrote: »

If you mean why leave Dublin and close some countrywide the answer is profit, those that make the most will be kept

Most of these answers don't understand Dublins rental costs.

I also would guess that there's a much lower spend per customer on Henry street than grafton street. Debenhams always seems quiet too.

Eugene Norman

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Most of us do I'm afraid. We also have all the money :pac:

Or our landlords do.

Atlantic Dawn

It's no loss if it goes, a basket case, they stocked mostly own brand sheite that nobody had an interest in when shopping in premium streets and centres. The booming stores of Arnotts and BT's bring in premium brands, Debenhams in Ireland was like trying to stock Homestead in Marbella. I'd love if ex Roches Stores bought it.

Greenmachine

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's no loss if it goes, a basket case, they stocked mostly own brand sheite that nobody had an interest in when shopping in premium streets and centres. The booming stores of Arnotts and BT's bring in premium brands, Debenhams in Ireland was like trying to stock Homestead in Marbella. I'd love if ex Roches Stores bought it.

You have to remember Roches got out of the game because the stores were loss making, they lost touch with what shopper wanted to buy apparently. Not what a 10 year retail absence for the high street will have though them. It was comfortable for them when they had a tenant to fill their prime stores.

newacc2015

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Most of these answers don't understand Dublins rental costs.

I also would guess that there's a much lower spend per customer on Henry street than grafton street. Debenhams always seems quiet too.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-euro-spend-back-around-capital-1943376-Feb2015/

Actually it is the opposite. There is a higher spend on Henry St than Grafton. I imagine the lower spend on Grafton St is due to the amount of normal Spar type shops and all the fast food places

Debenhams is quiet as it doesn't know what Irish customers want. It has taken the M&S approach of bringing a UK store to Ireland and not making any cultural changes. The selection of casual shoes in Debehams is horrific. A lot of their departments have a poor selection of goods versus Arnotts.

dudara

Anecdotally, I tried recently to purchase something online recently with Debenhams with free delivery to store. The process was so horrifically bad that I abandoned it and bought instead from House of Fraser.

It's a pity that Debenhams is in this state, but it's a confused shop with brands that don't really appeal here.

GerardKeating

dudara wrote: »

Anecdotally, I tried recently to purchase something online recently with Debenhams with free delivery to store. The process was so horrifically bad that I abandoned it and bought instead from House of Fraser.

It's a pity that Debenhams is in this state, but it's a confused shop with brands that don't really appeal here.

We regularly purchase online with Debenhams, both "Click and Collect" and "Deliver to Store" and it is no worse/better/different from most other online stores.

what was the issue you had with the store?

dudara

Multiple points of failure if I remember correctly. The reset password process, wouldn't recognise my loyalty card, wouldn't accept a gift card. Compared to M&S and HoF which I use regularly, it was poor.

irishmoss

Surely the sterling exchange rate has had a big impact on the stores trading here over the last number of years?

L1011

irishmoss wrote: »

Surely the sterling exchange rate has had a big impact on the stores trading here over the last number of years?

It's drifting back due to brexit risks.

Irish shoppers have different tastes which affect clothes retail here

VincePP

I'm in retail over 30 years and this doesn't surprise me and high rents is the least of their problems as to be worthwhile they should be looking for a minimum net profit of circa €10m on a €160m turnover - so with 7m loss they need a 17m move in figures.

Reasons it didn't work.

1 - Debenhams simply replicated their uk model here. No changes to appeal to local shoppers.

2 - Under 5m people, yet 11 stores. Too many to make it "different" or a must go to store, hence they fight with all the other middle stores.

3 - Concessions. Too many and they all seem to have too small a space and all merchandise their areas to their look. This leads to cluttered untidy unattractive stores.

4 - price. Irish consumers are far more price savvy than uk. So they notice when a store is expensive. For years Debenhams used a 1.6 conversion from stg to eur. Irish people are no fools - local independent stores were cheaper.

5 - The outcome. Probably 5-6 stores to close. Keep Henry St., Limerick, Cork city centre, Galway. Then possibly keep Blackrock, Mahon point & Newbridge. Close the rest. TK maxx Pennys and Marks and Spencer could be replacements.

Considering the 200m+ potential debt if it went into liquidation, it will be best to get to a deal.

uck51js9zml2yt

My company went into examinership owing 64 million .
Went to supreme court to change laws on getting out of leases in examiner ship.
Closed 3 locations, did a deal with suppliers on debts, let go 300 staff.
Separated itself from the parent company during the process to stop creditors going after the parent.
They are still operating without me;)

ben.schlomo

VincePP wrote: »

I'm in retail over 30 years and this doesn't surprise me and high rents is the least of their problems as to be worthwhile they should be looking for a minimum net profit of circa €10m on a €160m turnover - so with 7m loss they need a 17m move in figures.

Reasons it didn't work.

1 - Debenhams simply replicated their uk model here. No changes to appeal to local shoppers.

2 - Under 5m people, yet 11 stores. Too many to make it "different" or a must go to store, hence they fight with all the other middle stores.

3 - Concessions. Too many and they all seem to have too small a space and all merchandise their areas to their look. This leads to cluttered untidy unattractive stores.

4 - price. Irish consumers are far more price savvy than uk. So they notice when a store is expensive. For years Debenhams used a 1.6 conversion from stg to eur. Irish people are no fools - local independent stores were cheaper.

5 - The outcome. Probably 5-6 stores to close. Keep Henry St., Limerick, Cork city centre, Galway. Then possibly keep Blackrock, Mahon point & Newbridge. Close the rest. TK maxx Pennys and Marks and Spencer could be replacements.

Considering the 200m+ potential debt if it went into liquidation, it will be best to get to a deal.

M&S aint going to be opening any new stores here in the near future, especially not in regional towns. Aside from the long mooted Limerick store.

L1011

Yeah, M&S have already have some trouble here and are extremely unlikely to be expanding in any major manner.

They have adapted to the Irish market a lot more than other UK firms (having been here a hell of a lot longer - one of the longer established UK shops here having opened in the 70s; Tesco were here before but left entirely) but are suffering the same problems here as the UK, namely an ageing customer base and plummeting product quality.

Spanish Eyes

Shops are empty most of the time due to online shopping now. I find it depressing on the few occasions I venture in to the city to have a nosey.

Penneys is one exception, and I love it too. Come out with a basketful of stuff I neither wanted nor needed. But such is the life of a shopper in store!

VincePP

ben.schlomo wrote: »

M&S aint going to be opening any new stores here in the near future, especially not in regional towns. Aside from the long mooted Limerick store.

M&S have had a very good couple of years here and have exceded their sales targets especially on food.

They will look at the right store in the right location. They are not opening any more small format stores like Newbridge & Killarney.

If Debenhams decided to close Newbridge, M&S would look at expanding into that from their current small store. Similarly Waterford would also be of interest to M&S.

VincePP

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Shops are empty most of the time due to online shopping now. I find it depressing on the few occasions I venture in to the city to have a nosey.

Excluding travel and music, online accounts for less than 6% of retail sales in the UK and less than that here.

That's comparable to catalogue shopping sales in the eighties & nineties.

If anything, there's a trend back to "physical shopping" where the shopping experience is an enjoyable one with the online store used to obtain infomation

Some people just don't like shopping (me included), but as a retailer (yes, ironic) with both online and retail stores, it the retail stores showing the growth this year.

BarryD

Puzzled, as Dublin shoppers are hardly stuck for choice, are they?

PhoenixParker

BarryD wrote: »

Puzzled, as Dublin shoppers are hardly stuck for choice, are they?

They can be since all the shops seem to stock pretty much the same stuff.
Even say Debenham's Henry St has concessions for Warehouse, Oasis etc. which have bigger shops with the same stock nearby.

Tbh Debenhams is just poor as a store. I don't bother with the Henry St one because it's not a patch on Arnott's. For presentation, prices and range Arnotts is a thousand times better.

I'm in Blanch quite a lot and it's the same thing there. The shop is poorly presented, feels like something out of the 90s. Their own brand stuff doesn't feel like great quality, there's little I want to try on, never mind buy. It should be one of the top stores I shop in in Blanch but I can't remember the last time I bought anything.

meeeeh

I must say I find both Debenhams and M&S drab and badly presented. I think I am kind of the age group that should find them appealing for certain things but they just make me feel old and dowdy. They really a shop that you go to when you need a pair of sensible knickers. Nothing to be excited about.

In general I am gone of a lot of British brands. I'm too old for Top Shop and there are only so many going out dresses one can get excited about.

KingBrian2

On a related topic what type of stores do you go to? Anyone go to Liffey Valley, Dundrum or IKEA. How are they holding up outside the city centre?

Spanish Eyes

KingBrian2 wrote: »

On a related topic what type of stores do you go to? Anyone go to Liffey Valley, Dundrum or IKEA. How are they holding up outside the city centre?

LV is the nearest to me. A bit of a drive, but ok so.

Anyway, it is always thronged. A lot of teenagers showing off their abs and tans. But I was a teenager once too!!

I wonder do folk buy anything there though, as the shops themselves seem to be sparsely filled with people. But anyway.

I do not like shopping centres at all, much prefer the city centre (or online) TBH. But each to their own. Anyway I go to LV because my Mum is disabled and it is so easy to get around and parking is ok for disabled too. And she likes it, so that is the my reason.....before anyone says I am a selfish B. LOL.

byhookorbycrook

Spanish Eyes, LV does the mobility scooters.Well worth it for your mam.

ben.schlomo

VincePP wrote: »

M&S have had a very good couple of years here and have exceded their sales targets especially on food.

They will look at the right store in the right location. They are not opening any more small format stores like Newbridge & Killarney.

If Debenhams decided to close Newbridge, M&S would look at expanding into that from their current small store. Similarly Waterford would also be of interest to M&S.

Food sales have remained quite good but GM sales have been very poor, not getting near plan for multiple years now. Unless you've better access to an inside track than I . Theres a reason they have been attempting to negotiate with unions for over two years now.

ben.schlomo

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Shops are empty most of the time due to online shopping now. I find it depressing on the few occasions I venture in to the city to have a nosey.

Penneys is one exception, and I love it too. Come out with a basketful of stuff I neither wanted nor needed. But such is the life of a shopper in store!

Grand generalisation of the day.

KingBrian2

Best shop in the city for me is Easons. Stationary, books, pens, DVD's and even a ATM machine. What else could you ask for!:)

dudara

Posters - please stay on topic. If you're not adding to the conversation, please don't post.

dudara