Fiber Optic Use for CCTV

tedimc

Does anyone have any experience using Fiber Optic runs for network cameras?

I have a run that is in excess of 200 odd meters and from what I can tell it's working out cheapest to run multi-mode fibre out to the point, use a media convertor and a small POE switch at the location. I have a large 24 port switch with a fiber connection in the house already that I should be able to hook the other end of the fiber into.

Obviously I wouldn't know where to start terminating the fiber, but I can buy it pre-terminated. Where I am having difficulty is the plug types and cable types/standards. My switch seems to use SFP (netgear) but the small PoE switches I have looked at mostly use SC. Can you easily convert from one to another? Also, what cable types do people usually use?

Some people have advised to stick to CAT6, etc. - but from what I can tell; fiber is the cheaper/better option, especially as the cables will be run mostly underground. I won't have to worry about signal loss, interference, etc. Even if copper was an option, I would still need the POE switch remotely as there will be a few cameras.

Any help is appreciated.
Ted.

frozenfrozen

have a look at fs.com for prices they seem to be pretty good. Only time I've ever used fibre was doing hd sdi over fibre for broadcast cameras. Using LC connectors, not very rugged at all, you'd probably need to replace them after about 100 uses, but grand if it's a permanent thing I would say.

The SFP on your router will take something like this http://www.fs.com/products/15444.html and you would plug the LC or whatever else into that. The laser will be in this transceiver

tedimc

Thanks Frozenfrozen - I've bit the bullet and bought a media convertor and one of the SFP plugs suitable for my router.

I've also ordered a fibre patch cable in order to check the whole set up before ordering 250M of multimode fibre.

WrigleysExtra

What about a coax to Ethernet converter?

oppenheimer1

I've used fiber for CCTV. €16 for two media converters €8 each and 24 for the fiber cable. Very happy with the setup. It had to be fiber or wireless since the outbuilding was on its own ESB supply.

TheChizler

Careful with multi mode vs single mode fibre, 1310 nm is typically single mode. Certainly not compatible at 200 m. Just make sure all fibre equipment is the same wavelength and type.

moc moc a moc

This is more of an ethernet network query than a security/CCTV query, so be wary of any advice from anyone who is not a network professional. For example, anyone telling you to use Cat6 for a 200m run does not know what they're talking about.

'SFP' is a module type, not a connector type - the usual connector type for these modules is called 'LC'. If your fibre convertor or switch at the other end uses SC, you simply need a cable with an LC connector on one end and SC on the other. There are also converters available if you want to just get an LC-LC cable and convert LC-SC on one end.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The SFP on your router will take something like this http://www.fs.com/products/15444.html

Watch out - while it's true that the module will look like this, the specific module linked is an SDH module, not an ethernet module. Make sure you get the right type for your equipment. What you probably want is something with '1000BASE-SX' or similar in the model number (alternatively, 100BASE-FX if your media converter is 100Mb/s)

tedimc

Sorry folks, have a response typed, but can't post it for some reason. Getting a blocked message from cloudfare. Must be some hidden SQL in there somewhere.

tedimc

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

What about a coax to Ethernet converter?

From what I could see, it would nearly be the same/more hassle. I would need 2 media convertors as opposed to one, granted wouldn't need the SFP plug. Would still need a POE switch. Granted the cable would probably be a good bit cheaper, but I don't mind experimenting with fiber anyway. Especially as it's a lot less prone to interference. I used to work for a CCTV company and had a few issues over the years with coax runs and interference. Bugger to identify and resolve. Open to correction though!!

tedimc

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I've used fiber for CCTV. €16 for two media converters €8 each and 24 for the fiber cable. Very happy with the setup. It had to be fiber or wireless since the outbuilding was on its own ESB supply.

E8 each isn't a bad price. Have you that set-up up an running long? Also - what difference does the different ESB supply have? Does it affect POE? 24 for cable must not be that long of a run.

tedimc

TheChizler wrote: »

Careful with multi mode vs single mode fibre, 1310 nm is typically single mode. Certainly not compatible at 200 m. Just make sure all fibre equipment is the same wavelength and type.

Yes fully agree - found this out the hard on a painful call to a local electrical supplier. I thought fibre optic was all the same. Had to go off and do some research. Going with the Multimode 850nm I think. Also, like you say: making sure router, convertors, modules and cable all support the same standard. From what I could tell, single mode is better for longer runs and the cable is cheaper, but the equipment is a lot more expensive. Multimode 850nm is fine up to 550m or something like that.

tedimc

moc moc a moc wrote: »

SFP is a module type, not a connector type - the usual connector type for these modules is called LC. If your fibre convertor or switch at the other end uses SC, you simply need a cable with an LC connector on one end and SC on the other. There are also converters available if you want to just get an LCLC cable and convert LCSC on one end.

Yes - having issues with that. My media converter accepts SC, while the module for my router is LC. I am hoping to be able to get the cable pre-terminated with SC on one end and LC on the other. If not, hopefully I can get both LC and try to get some type of convertor after that. Apparently they are available, but I'm not sure how well they work. Worst case, I may need to chat to a few distant contacts to see if someone could come on-site and terminate the cable for me. The splicing/termination kits are astronomical money..

tedimc

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Watch out - while it's true that the module will look like this, the specific module linked is an SDH module, not an ethernet module. Make sure you get the right type for your equipment. What you probably want is something with 1000BASE SX or similar in the model number (alternatively, 100BASE FX if your media converter is 100Mb/s)

Yes - having issues with that. My media converter accepts SC, while the module for my router is LC. I am hoping to be able to get the cable pre-terminated with SC on one end and LC on the other. If not, hopefully I can get both LC and try to get some type of convertor after that. Apparently they are available, but I'm not sure how well they work. Worst case, I may need to chat to a few distant contacts to see if someone could come on-site and terminate the cable for me. The splicing/termination kits are astronomical money.

TheChizler

Out of interest what equipment have you ordered for your setup?

tedimc

Media Convertor:
TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Multi-Mode Media Converter
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001GWSMVU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

SFP Module for Netgear Router:
Generic AGM731F for Netgear, 1000BASE-SX SFP transceiver module for MMF, 850nm wavelength, 550m, dual LC/PC connector
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015MGUTBG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

POE Switch:
BV-Tech POE-SW501 10/100Mbps 4 PoE Port + 1 Uplink PoE Switch with IEEE 802.3af, 65W
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00WKRBI0W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Test Patch Cable:
StarTech.com 2m Fiber Optic Cable - Multimode Duplex 50/125 - LSZH - LC/SC - OM2 - LC to SC Fiber Patch Cable
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00017X2YI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Surge Protectors:
Ubiquiti ETH-SP RJ45 Cat5/6 PoE+/ESD Outdoor Ethernet Surge Lightning Protector
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171857828727?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

TheChizler

Cheers, it all makes sense now. Didn't realize you could get MM SFPs so cheap (in work the ones we use are much more expensive). Hope it all comes together ok!

TheChizler

tedimc wrote: »

E8 each isn't a bad price. Have you that set-up up an running long? Also - what difference does the different ESB supply have? Does it affect POE? 24 for cable must not be that long of a run.

The two mains connections might be on different phases, and you'd have a maximum potential difference of 415 V between the two buildings. Stringing a copper wire between these two different systems is highly dangerous if anything was to short circuit or there were grounding issues.

tedimc

TheChizler wrote: »

Cheers, it all makes sense now. Didn't realize you could get MM SFPs so cheap (in work the ones we use are much more expensive). Hope it all comes together ok!

I know what you mean, the original Netgear branded units were well over E100. I don't think I paid much more for the actual 24 port router.

I also seen some (Cisco I think) which were over 1K...... Not sure what the spec was but seems a lot for basically a plug on the end of a cable

tedimc

TheChizler wrote: »

The two mains connections might be on different phases, and you'd have a maximum potential difference of 415 V between the two buildings. Stringing a copper wire between these two different systems is highly dangerous if anything was to short circuit or there were grounding issues.

Would the phase issue affect your cameras though? Would they not be DC powered - either via POE or a power supply.

I can see what you mean about the max potential difference, would never have considered that.

TheChizler

tedimc wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

Cheers, it all makes sense now. Didn't realize you could get MM SFPs so cheap (in work the ones we use are much more expensive). Hope it all comes together ok!

I also seen some (Cisco I think) which were over 1K...... Not sure what the spec was but seems a lot for basically a plug on the end of a cable

Some can do a whole lot more than just convert optical to electrical! They can have some pretty useful features. But Cisco typically make their switches compatible with only a narrow range of SFPs made by approved manufacturers, including themselves, and therefore people pay a premium to use them as the market is artificially restricted.

TheChizler

tedimc wrote: »

I can see what you mean about the max potential difference, would never have considered that.

As long as nothing goes wrong and the electrical equipment is wired correctly it would be grand and have no effect on operation. It's purely a safety (for both devices and people) issue and therefore a big regulatory no-no.

frozenfrozen

chizler just in case you ever have to deal with that cisco quirk, you can run the command

service unsupported-transceiver;no errdisable detect cause gbic-invalid

and it'll work. You can also buy 3rd party transceivers which come flashed to look like cisco gear

TheChizler

frozenfrozen wrote: »

chizler just in case you ever have to deal with that cisco quirk, you can run the command

service unsupported-transceiver;no errdisable detect cause gbic-invalid

and it'll work. You can also buy 3rd party transceivers which come flashed to look like cisco gear

Cheers! Became aware of that command a while ago but it comes with the caveat that it will usually make your warranty void if something goes wrong. There's another technique called grey-coding where the SFP recognises it's in a Cisco chassis and makes itself look compatible but I've said too much...

frozenfrozen

I didn't know it voided warranty, good to know

TheChizler

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I didn't know it voided warranty, good to know

Don't hold me to that, but that's certainly the line that's spun by the approved manufacturers.

tedimc

Just to aid anyone stumbling apon this;

Got all the bits I had ordered and tested locally using a fibre patch cable and................it didn't work.

After a little head scratching I managed to determine that it was the POE switches that were the issue (sort of)!

Turns out the media convertor I got is a gigabit convertor. I knew this at the time but presumed it would work with the 10/100Mbps POE switches. When I tried a 1000Mbps switch, everything worked fine.

So, I am returning the POE switches and have other 1Gbps replacements ordered (slightly dearer).

My other option was to change the media convertor to a 10/100Mbps one, but I want to future proof myself as much as possible. I will likely add an outdoor 4G antenna to this and want to allow room for additional cameras.

I am also about to order the pre-terminated fibre, working out so far at 45p per meter. I was quoted 550E to get fibre terminated on-site, so will run the risk with the pre-terminated stuff.

So far so good.