Championship v Premier League next season...

...if Brighton go up, the Championship will feature Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Ipswich and Norwich, Wolves, QPR and Blackburn.

Meanwhile the top flight will hype up games involving Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Palace, Watford, WBA, Stoke and Swansea.

Now obviously the neutrals will still be drawn to the glamour ties, 2 big Manchester clubs, 3 big London sides, Liverpool...but looking at the rest not sure the gap between watching the two divisions has been narrower in terms of big clubs and games worth watching...

AgileMyth

Those teams have earned their place there. Stoke in particular, they've been comfortable every year for a long time now. People don't like them cause they used to play bad football about six years ago..

Villa are a big club. They added nothing to the premier league this year. Leeds..

HalloweenJack

If anything, it goes to show the mismanagement that's been going on at the big clubs.

monkey9

No offense OP, but you're still living in the 70's & 80's with that post. I get what you're saying, but right now Bournemouth are a better team than Leeds Utd for example. Football, like life, evolves.

citytillidie

Don't forget the Championship will feature Burton Albion as well would be some story if they could reach the Premier League.

The Golden Miller

Leeds would want to get the finger out. Getting the most hated team in the country back into the top tier will certainly throw the cat amongst the pigeons

Paully D

Deleted User wrote: »

...if Brighton go up, the Championship will feature Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Ipswich and Norwich, Wolves, QPR and Blackburn.

Meanwhile the top flight will hype up games involving Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Palace, Watford, WBA, Stoke and Swansea.

Now obviously the neutrals will still be drawn to the glamour ties, 2 big Manchester clubs, 3 big London sides, Liverpool...but looking at the rest not sure the gap between watching the two divisions has been narrower in terms of big clubs and games worth watching...

The only Championship teams you have listed who have any sort of Premier League relevance of late are Villa, Norwich and Newcastle and that's because they were in it this season. The others are all fine clubs, but lets be honest, they haven't been associated with being consistent players in the Premier League in so long they are inconsequential at the moment.

Stoke, Swansea and West Brom are established Premier League teams now and deservedly so. Watford and Bournemouth were a breath of fresh air at times this season and have earned the opportunity to establish themselves now. It's refreshing IMO.

The gap between the Premier League and Championship will really be the same as it always has been. Only twice in the Premier League era have all 3 promoted teams stayed up. Only once in the Premier League era have all 3 promoted teams gone down. I doubt things will change all that much.

RedemptionZ

As HalloweenJack has alluded to, just shows how mismanaged some clubs are or have been. Newcastle not being a competitive club in the EPL is a bit of a joke. Birmingham, Leeds the list goes on. Should be able to fill big stadiums and generate enough money to have good coaches and decent squads.

monkey9

monkey9 wrote: »

No offense OP, but you're still living in the 70's & 80's with that post. I get what you're saying, but right now Bournemouth are a better team than Leeds Utd for example. Football, like life, evolves.

There was something to be said for the table in the 70s and 80s, when success was more determined by things like money paid at turnstile by fans. Now it's the "good owner" lottery, highlighted by the fanbase of some second tier clubs as against teams like Bournemouth. No doubt they are a better team than Leeds, I wouldn't argue against it, but still, Bournemouth v Burnley or Villa v Birmingham next season...which would you watch?

OldRio

I sense bitterness in the OP.

Harry Palmr

Well I'm old enough for the names to still mean something! Yes the Championship is now stuffed with fallen giants.

Iused2likebusts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was something to be said for the table in the 70s and 80s, when success was more determined by things like money paid at turnstile by fans. Now it's the "good owner" lottery, highlighted by the fanbase of some second tier clubs as against teams like Bournemouth. No doubt they are a better team than Leeds, I wouldn't argue against it, but still, Bournemouth v Burnley or Villa v Birmingham next season...which would you watch?

Eddie howe up against the team he jumped ship on that's one for my diary.

Hercule Poirot

I don't see why the possibility of Brighton being promoted prompted this post - or should they have no ambition, stay in the Championship where they belong and just be grateful that they are allowed to play against Premier league opposition in the cups every now and then?

Shanotheslayer

I may be wrong but think OP is a Newcastle fan? Trying to make himself feel better a little better :pac:


There's no need to be upset

CSF

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I may be wrong but think OP is a Newcastle fan? Trying to make himself feel better a little better :pac:


There's no need to be upset

He's definitely not a Newcastle fan!!!

Unearthly

In theory the gap should be getting bigger with the TV money but Leicester blew that theory out the window.

Championship is a good league to watch, highly competitive. Just goes to show how hard it is to come back.

holy guacamole

Dunno about the rest of you but the game I'm most looking forward to next season is Bolton v Coventry in League One. Will spend the entire game reminiscing about the good old days of Noel Whelan and Youri Djorkaeff.

monkey9

Deleted User wrote: »

There was something to be said for the table in the 70s and 80s, when success was more determined by things like money paid at turnstile by fans. Now it's the "good owner" lottery, highlighted by the fanbase of some second tier clubs as against teams like Bournemouth. No doubt they are a better team than Leeds, I wouldn't argue against it, but still, Bournemouth v Burnley or Villa v Birmingham next season...which would you watch?

I'd rather watch Villa V Birmingham as I do love a good derby, but not all teams go up because of money. Burnley and Bournemouth didn't go up because of a sudden input of money like a Man City or Chelsea. I know Bournemouth do have a rich owner, but they didn't go spending mad.

While it's sad to see big clubs down in the doldrums, I feel you only see them as top division clubs because of your youth. Kids today won't care much for the likes of Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday etc. A kid today could be posting thirty years from now how it's sad that traditional top division clubs like Swansea Burnley and Bournemouth etc are struggling in the fourth tier whilst we have to put up with Leeds Vs Sheffield Wednesday.

SEPT 23 1989

monkey9 wrote: »

I'd rather watch Villa V Birmingham as I do love a good derby, but not all teams go up because of money. Burnley and Bournemouth didn't go up because of a sudden input of money like a Man City or Chelsea. I know Bournemouth do have a rich owner, but they didn't go spending mad.

While it's sad to see big clubs down in the doldrums, I feel you only see them as top division clubs because of your youth. Kids today won't care much for the likes of Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday etc. A kid today could be posting thirty years from now how it's sad that traditional top division clubs like Swansea Burnley and Bournemouth etc are struggling in the fourth tier whilst we have to put up with Leeds Vs Sheffield Wednesday.

City were dicing with bankruptcy in the old Third Division they progressed up the divisions to the premier league with a lot less money than the teams promoted today

the few bob only arrived when we were in the Premier League

monkey9

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

City were dicing with bankruptcy in the old Third Division they progressed up the divisions to the premier league with a lot less money than the teams promoted today

the few bob only arrived when we were in the Premier League

Yeah I didn't mean financial in terms of promotion etc, just compared with where they are now.

Texas Jack

Parachute payments are killing everyone elses chance at a fair shot

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...if Brighton go up, the Championship will feature Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Ipswich and Norwich, Wolves, QPR and Blackburn.

Meanwhile the top flight will hype up games involving Bournemouth, Brighton, Burnley, Palace, Watford, WBA, Stoke and Swansea.

Now obviously the neutrals will still be drawn to the glamour ties, 2 big Manchester clubs, 3 big London sides, Liverpool...but looking at the rest not sure the gap between watching the two divisions has been narrower in terms of big clubs and games worth watching...

Even in the Championship I have no idea why you're trying to claim Villa as something positive about the league.

CSF

8-10 wrote: »

Even in the Championship I have no idea why you're trying to claim Villa as something positive about the league.

I imagine pretty much every club's fans in the leagues will be looking forward to a trip to Villa Park *waits for joke about the easy 3 points*

Harry Palmr

Texas Jack wrote: »

Parachute payments are killing everyone elses chance at a fair shot

Boro parachute payments ended some years back, but yes Steve Gibson is willing to back his club.

Texas Jack

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Boro parachute payments ended some years back, but yes Steve Gibson is willing to back his club.

Gibsons the best chairman in football - what he's done for them no chairman would ever do

Hercule Poirot

Texas Jack wrote: »

Gibsons the best chairman in football - what he's done for them no chairman would ever do

His tears when they sealed promotion were wonderful and shows how much the club means to him

Texas Jack

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

His tears when they sealed promotion were wonderful and shows how much the club means to him

Think his nephew is their star defender? Ben?

Mushy

monkey9 wrote: »

I'd rather watch Villa V Birmingham as I do love a good derby, but not all teams go up because of money. Burnley and Bournemouth didn't go up because of a sudden input of money like a Man City or Chelsea. I know Bournemouth do have a rich owner, but they didn't go spending mad.

While it's sad to see big clubs down in the doldrums, I feel you only see them as top division clubs because of your youth. Kids today won't care much for the likes of Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday etc. A kid today could be posting thirty years from now how it's sad that traditional top division clubs like Swansea Burnley and Bournemouth etc are struggling in the fourth tier whilst we have to put up with Leeds Vs Sheffield Wednesday.

Bournemouth are getting fined nearly 8million for breaking FFP rules. Wage bill went up to near 31 million, which was 12 million beforehand. They spent mad for sure.

OldRio

OldRio wrote: »

I sense bitterness in the OP.

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I may be wrong but think OP is a Newcastle fan? Trying to make himself feel better a little better :pac:

Not remotely bitter. I'm hardly rocking back and forth seething over Bournemouth in some English division!

Simply observing that there are a lot of big clubs in the second tier, and it seems more so than historically.

monkey9 wrote: »

While it's sad to see big clubs down in the doldrums, I feel you only see them as top division clubs because of your youth. Kids today won't care much for the likes of Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday etc. A kid today could be posting thirty years from now how it's sad that traditional top division clubs like Swansea Burnley and Bournemouth etc are struggling in the fourth tier whilst we have to put up with Leeds Vs Sheffield Wednesday.

I'd accept that, the clubs that were regarded as big in your childhood still remain the yardsticks even when they are passed by others.

But still, it now features 2 former winners and a losing finalist in the European Cup...that's gotta be a first?

Texas Jack

Deleted User wrote: »

Not remotely bitter. I'm hardly rocking back and forth seething over Bournemouth in some English division!

Simply observing that there are a lot of big clubs in the second tier, and it seems more so than historically.



I'd accept that, the clubs that were regarded as big in your childhood still remain the yardsticks even when they are passed by others.

But still, it now features 2 former winners and a losing finalist in the European Cup...that's gotta be a first?

Not losing - robbed

Bent ref never refereed again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_European_Cup_Final

Beefy78

The Championship is a weird division. It gets bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger each year and yeah as the OP said it's now full of huge clubs, many of whom many of us will always associate as being top tier clubs (I think it's natural to always keep clubs in the rankings we had them in when we were schoolboys with Panini stickerbooks and Pro Set cards collections to complete).

I used to watch Southend play in that league in the 90s (91/92-96/97) and we'd play the likes of Cambridge, Port Vale, Notts County and other similar sized clubs to us. We had a couple of runs at promotion to the top flight with just 4,000 fans at Roots Hall every other week. You could hold your own with a good manager or good players. We flirted with the play offs in 95/96 almost solely down to having Simon Royce in sticks.

We got promoted again in 2006 and the league had changed massively. Every other week we were playing a huge former Premier League club. And the players were so much bigger and stronger and faster and tougher than I remembered from ten years before. It has gone even further since and I'll be interested to see how Burton get on having similarly done back-to-back promotions.

I'm not complaining though. It's football. The clubs who have benefited from this and established themselves as players in the biggest league in the World have tended to do it the right way and many of them are the teams who play the most attractive football. They tend to have nice grounds whereas I wonder how we get our safety certificate every season. A bit of envy is natural but I love seeing what Swansea and Bournemouth and others have done.

So yeah look forward to some great games in the Championship next year. And the likes of Charlton vs Sheffield United and Bolton vs Coventry in League One. But it shouldn't take anything away from the Premier League which, as I've said on other threads, I think is now set to give us many 'Leicester-esque' surprises over the remainder of this TV deal.

citytillidie

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I don't see why the possibility of Brighton being promoted prompted this post - or should they have no ambition, stay in the Championship where they belong and just be grateful that they are allowed to play against Premier league opposition in the cups every now and then?

It will not be the 1st time Brighton have been in the top division

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Beefy78 wrote: »

The Championship is a weird division. It gets bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger each year and yeah as the OP said it's now full of huge clubs, many of whom many of us will always associate as being top tier clubs (I think it's natural to always keep clubs in the rankings we had them in when we were schoolboys with Panini stickerbooks and Pro Set cards collections to complete).

I used to watch Southend play in that league in the 90s (91/92-96/97) and we'd play the likes of Cambridge, Port Vale, Notts County and other similar sized clubs to us. We had a couple of runs at promotion to the top flight with just 4,000 fans at Roots Hall every other week. You could hold your own with a good manager or good players. We flirted with the play offs in 95/96 almost solely down to having Simon Royce in sticks.

We got promoted again in 2006 and the league had changed massively. Every other week we were playing a huge former Premier League club. And the players were so much bigger and stronger and faster and tougher than I remembered from ten years before. It has gone even further since and I'll be interested to see how Burton get on having similarly done back-to-back promotions.

I'm not complaining though. It's football. The clubs who have benefited from this and established themselves as players in the biggest league in the World have tended to do it the right way and many of them are the teams who play the most attractive football. They tend to have nice grounds whereas I wonder how we get our safety certificate every season. A bit of envy is natural but I love seeing what Swansea and Bournemouth and others have done.

So yeah look forward to some great games in the Championship next year. And the likes of Charlton vs Sheffield United and Bolton vs Coventry in League One. But it shouldn't take anything away from the Premier League which, as I've said on other threads, I think is now set to give us many 'Leicester-esque' surprises over the remainder of this TV deal.

Are you not a West Ham fan?

Hercule Poirot

citytillidie wrote: »

It will not be the 1st time Brighton have been in the top division

1983 - lost an FA Cup final and got relegated in the same season - Steve Foster, the legend!!

Talisman

Deleted User wrote: »

Bournemouth v Burnley or Villa v Birmingham next season...which would you watch?

Bournemouth v Burnley - both of those teams actually try to play football.

The Birmingham derby has never been a glamour tie.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

Bournemouth v Burnley - both of those teams actually try to play football.

The Birmingham derby has never been a glamour tie.

Oh I appreciate that, I mean I know of teams in the Kerry District league that try to play football. That certainly is not dependant on being in the Premier League, you can get very bad quality games there too. And lots of derbies can be poor games too.

It just seems...bigger.

Gavlor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was something to be said for the table in the 70s and 80s, when success was more determined by things like money paid at turnstile by fans. Now it's the "good owner" lottery, highlighted by the fanbase of some second tier clubs as against teams like Bournemouth. No doubt they are a better team than Leeds, I wouldn't argue against it, but still, Bournemouth v Burnley or Villa v Birmingham next season...which would you watch?

Everton and liverpool were bankrolled in the 80's, Leeds in the 70's. In the 60's Everton were known as the Bank of England. This whole money buys success thing isn't a new phenomenon.

Beefy78

baz2009 wrote: »

Are you not a West Ham fan?

No, I'm a Shrimper.

I did grow up in a West Ham family and I guess they were my team until I was 12 or 13. Maybe I've mentioned that on here before which is why you thought that.

Once I started getting along to watch the likes of Stan Collymore, Ricky Otto and Brett Angell there was only one team for me

Texas Jack

Gavlor wrote: »

Everton and liverpool were bankrolled in the 80's, Leeds in the 70's. In the 60's Everton were known as the Bank of England. This whole money buys success thing isn't a new phenomenon.

Clearly

The Leeds squad of what was 12 or 13 back then was comprised entirely of academy products with the exception of maybe John Giles and Allan Clarke

Hardly bankrolled

Hercule Poirot

Beefy78 wrote: »

No, I'm a Shrimper.

I did grow up in a West Ham family and I guess they were my team until I was 12 or 13. Maybe I've mentioned that on here before which is why you thought that.

Once I started getting along to watch the likes of Stan Collymore, Ricky Otto and Brett Angell there was only one team for me

Be honest - it was all about Spencer Prior wasn't it?

monkey9

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd accept that, the clubs that were regarded as big in your childhood still remain the yardsticks even when they are passed by others.

But still, it now features 2 former winners and a losing finalist in the European Cup...that's gotta be a first?

Yeah it is mad that there are former European Cup winners down there. I think Forest were the first club in any country who, as former European Champions, dropped down into third tier football.

I think it shows a good depth of strength in English club football. I'd watch any match from the four divisions. You don't really see that depth in any of the other major leagues.

Hercule Poirot

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah it is mad that there are former European Cup winners down there. I think Forest were the first club in any country who, as former European Champions, dropped down into third tier football.

I think it shows a good depth of strength in English club football. I'd watch any match from the four divisions. You don't really see that depth in any of the other major leagues.

Very true, watched Portsmouth/Plymouth last night, cracking game