Offering incentives for lease

Kai123

Hello,

I am looking for an apartment in a fairly small area. A very nice place has popped up and I've e-mailed (will phone tomorrow) to show my interest.

Is it possible to offer to pay 2 months in advance on rent to get the lease locked down? Or maybe even offering more on deposit to secure it.

Or, would this not be advisable since it might be out of the norm? I have references ready to go as well but in this climate I've no doubt there would be alot of interest for the apartment so anything that gives me and edge would help.

Kai.

The_Conductor

2 months deposit is rapidly becoming the norm- as is the first couple of month's rent in advance. What you are suggesting is not a distinguishing factor.

MarkAnthony

Kai, if you're going to do that I'd recommend doing first and last months rent + deposit. I know I'd be looking for the tenant to keep paying, I wouldn't want to go 2 months at any point (other than the last month) without the tenant paying. My personal experience is security deposits aren't increasing to two months, purely on the basis that people don't trust LL's to return it - rightly so sadly.

If it's an agent just be ready to go. If it's the LL themselves be ready to go, try and be a little bit friendly and come across as easy going. I always recommend being suited and booted for these things.

Kai123

I've e-mailed and texted (got the guys number from the office) the person managing the lease. I mentioned paying an extra months but can see if paying at the end of the lease would suit them better.

I'm a single guy so I'm not sure how that might reflect on my chances compared to a seemingly settled childless couple. I've a friend who I plan on subletting to (also a non-smoker, semi-professional) who has paid me 2 months rent ready to go.

I know not to get my hopes up, but its the first time in my life I can throw money at something like this and hope it pays off.

MarkAnthony

To clarify: you pay it at the start but pay monthly as normal. When you give notice to leave you don't pay the last month.

It's the way the yanks do it and to be fair it makes a lot more sense for every concerned.

Baby01032012

Good luck OP.

May I ask if Dublin or outside Dublin?

Kai123

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Good luck OP.

May I ask if Dublin or outside Dublin?

Dublin 15.

Bob24

It's just me thinking and I might be wrong, but the goodies you are mentioning might not necessarily serve your cause. If you were a landlord, wouldn't you find it strange if someone was offering more deposit than your asked for? (wondering why that guy seems so desperate)

I'd say make sure you have all your paperwork ready when you go for the viewing, try to be amongst the first viewers, and if you like the place offer to take it straight after the viewing with all your documents. More than that, you might look a bit too keen.

Kai123

Bob24 wrote: »

It's just me thinking and I might be wrong, but the goodies you are mentioning might not necessarily serve your cause. If you were a landlord, wouldn't you find it strange if someone was offering more deposit than your asked for? (wondering why that guy seems so desperate)

I'd say make sure you have all your paperwork ready when you go for the viewing, try to be amongst the first viewers, and if you like the place offer to take it straight after the viewing with all your documents. More than that, you might look a bit too keen.

I was worried about that. I will mention it when the time comes about paying for the first and last month "like in the US", since it does suit everyone. Make it more of a formality of another countries way of doing it rather than me trying hard.

MarkAnthony

Bob24 wrote: »

It's just me thinking and I might be wrong, but the goodies you are mentioning might not necessarily serve your cause. If you were a landlord, wouldn't you find it strange if someone was offering more deposit than your asked for? (wondering why that guy seems so desperate)

I'd say make sure you have all your paperwork ready when you go for the viewing, try to be amongst the first viewers, and if you like the place offer to take it straight after the viewing with all your documents. More than that, you might look a bit too keen.

Most LL's know that it's a seller's market but as a LL it would be a massive concern for me if someone was wanting to pay 2-3 months rent. They get in and then that's the last money you get from them!

newacc2015

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Kai, if you're going to do that I'd recommend doing first and last months rent + deposit. I know I'd be looking for the tenant to keep paying, I wouldn't want to go 2 months at any point (other than the last month) without the tenant paying. My personal experience is security deposits aren't increasing to two months, purely on the basis that people don't trust LL's to return it - rightly so sadly.

A tenant has the opportunity to chase a landlord for a deposit not returned to them with the PRTB. Where as the PRTB will happily tell a LL that the outstanding rent due to the security deposit being insufficient is not their problem. The tenant has far more avenues for getting their deposit returned than the LL get outstanding rent

If you look at the PRTB. More cases are with tenants not paying their rent, than LL's unfairly withholding deposits.

MarkAnthony

newacc2015 wrote: »

A tenant has the opportunity to chase a landlord for a deposit not returned to them with the PRTB. Where as the PRTB will happily tell a LL that the outstanding rent due to the security deposit being insufficient is not their problem. The tenant has far more avenues for getting their deposit returned than the LL get outstanding rent

If you look at the PRTB. More cases are with tenants not paying their rent, than LL's unfairly withholding deposits.

Perhaps, or we still have a problem with not enough tenants chasing it.

The_Conductor

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Perhaps, or we still have a problem with not enough tenants chasing it.

It cuts both ways- lots of landlords aren't bothering to chase unpaid rent either- as the PRTB is viewed as useless and a complete waste of time and effort- ultimately the best course of action a lot of people take- is to put it down to experience. Unfortunately- thereafter their interactions with prospective tenants (or tenants- with landlords) is tainted by the actions of a predecessor.

What is needed is-

1. An independent agency (*not* the PRTB) to hold deposits
2. A register of delinquent landlords and tenants that is accessible to all
3. A set process that quickly provides an outcome for either tenants or landlords who have been jiped by the other party
4. An effective method to extract monies due- where there is an outcome which has determined monies are due

The whole sector is proving to be a nightmare for both tenants and landlords as-is.

MrMorooka

OP your real problem will be with your subletting plan. Most leases don't allow it and it's a source of potential hassle so why should the LL agree to let you do it? What might work would be if you apply together and both sign the lease, rather than you being the tenant and subletting to him.

4ensic15

MrMorooka wrote: »

OP your real problem will be with your subletting plan. Most leases don't allow it and it's a source of potential hassle so why should the LL agree to let you do it? What might work would be if you apply together and both sign the lease, rather than you being the tenant and subletting to him.

Most leases don't allow it without consent and unless the place is being stuffed, no landlord will take action.

yqtwqxqm

Lease dont really mean anything to a landlord these days. Nothing they can really do about it when they are broken.

First and last months rent is good. My brothers are asking for 1 months deposit, plus first and last months rent for their properties now. Soon the deposit will be going straight to the PRTB, but first and last months rent wont.
They dont mind subletting at all, as long as they are informed and the property is looked after rent paid buy the original tenant.

If I was to go the LL route I would be definitely asking for 3 previous LL references as you cant necessarily trust the last reference. With a bad tenant, the current landlord might say lovely things about them to get rid of them, but the previous ones will tell the truth about the tenant.

OP I think you should hand the landlord 3 references and ask him to call all of them so he can get a good feeling for you.
Also try and give him an impression that you are not the type to be calling them and asking for things all the time.

With many landlords in my family (so it gets discussed a lot), the one thing that bothers them all are needy tenants.
Their absolute best tenants are the ones that pay the rent and they never hear from them again, bar quarterly inspections. They are the dream tenants.
They always ask when calling tenants previous LLs how needy they feel the tenants were.

Bob24

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

.

If I was to go the LL route I would be definitely asking for 3 previous LL references as you cant necessarily trust the last reference. With a bad tenant, the current landlord might say lovely things about them to get rid of them, but the previous ones will tell the truth about the tenant.

Doesn't seem reasonable to me. I've been renting my current place for 3 years, was in the previous one for 3, and previous one for 4. Contact details for the 2 previous landlords could have changed, and in any case they would find it strange for me to come to them for a reference after so many years. I'd probably be OK as they are not agents and we had good relationship, but for someone who was going through an agent it is very likely the agent will be either unreachable as they changed job of say they doen't have time for this.

I think your request would lead to discarding many honest people who can't get references that far back for valid reasons and possibly selecting not too honest ones who have no problem giving fake references (you can't verify their validity anyway).

yqtwqxqm

Bob24 wrote: »

Doesn't seem reasonable to me. I've been renting my current place for 3 years, was in the previous one for 3, and previous one for 4. Contact details for the 2 previous landlords could have changed, and in any case they would find it strange for me to come to them for a reference after so many years. I'd probably be OK as they are not agents and we had good relationship, but for someone who was going through an agent it is very likely the agent will be either unreachable as they changed job of say they doen't have time for this.

I think your request would lead to discarding many honest people who can't get references that far back for valid reasons and possibly selecting not too honest ones who have no problem giving fake references (you can't verify their validity anyway).

But you only need one good honest person.
It doesnt really matter how many you discard as long as you get one.
Of course, as in anything you need the skilll to weed out fake references etc, which a LL develops over time and hard lessons im sure.
It works fine for my brothers and my cousin just fine.

I use airbnb until such a time as the treatment of landlords improves in Ireland. For that I find the reference system very good. In fact ive actually swapped accommodation with several airbnb owners I have gotten to know. They use my apartment for 1/2 weeks whenever they want (booked in advance of course) and i use theirs whenever i want. Its a nice side effect of using airbnb. So far I have visited Nice, Malaga and Barcelona and had 4 airbnb owners visit me. Its like a house swap, but you are swapping your rental so noone is staying in your house when away and you dont have to organise the swap at the same time as each other.

Kai123

In the pursuit of gaining the desired lease, from now on I will offer a censored bank statement (showing income and my rent DD's), first and last months rental (along with the deposit) and references.

I've rented in Ireland for the last 8 years and every place has been kept very well, so I can have references to hand if required. Should references be a written statement or as a contact number? Contact number would be so much easier.

Bob24

Kai123 wrote: »

In the pursuit of gaining the desired lease, from now on I will offer a censored bank statement (showing income and my rent DD's), first and last months rental (along with the deposit) and references.

I've rented in Ireland for the last 8 years and every place has been kept very well, so I can have references to hand if required. Should references be a written statement or as a contact number? Contact number would be so much easier.

IMO a written reference from your previous landlord (alongside with contact details) is more valuable than any of the other items you mentioned.

Also, in my opinion you are overthinking the rental process a bit. Offering extra goodies is not gonna make you look better to an agent who ill just want you to provide their standard list of documents, and if you are dealing directly with the landlord it might have an effect but most likely the 2 decision points will be 1) whether you are providing all the documents they requested and 2) how comfortable they feel about you based on the impression you gave during the viewing (very subjective criteria, but it will have an influence).

Bob24

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

But you only need one good honest person.
It doesnt really matter how many you discard as long as you get one.
Of course, as in anything you need the skilll to weed out fake references etc, which a LL develops over time and hard lessons im sure.
It works fine for my brothers and my cousin just fine.

My point though was that if you ask for something which is unreasonnably difficult to obtain for most people, the majority of people you will have left providing you what you are asking for are the ones don't mind providing fake documents (and finding the honest tenant amongs the mass of cheaters will not be that easy - how can you tell a genuine reference from a fake one?).

yqtwqxqm

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

If I was to go the LL route I would be definitely asking for 3 previous LL references as you cant necessarily trust the last reference. With a bad tenant, the current landlord might say lovely things about them to get rid of them, but the previous ones will tell the truth about the tenant.

An awful lot of people won't have had 3 previous LLs, even those who have not likely won't have details for them anymore.

yqtwqxqm

Bob24 wrote: »

My point though was that if you ask for something which is unreasonnably difficult to obtain for most people, the majority of people you will have left providing you what you are asking for are the ones don't mind providing fake documents (and finding the honest tenant amongs the mass of cheaters will not be that easy - how can you tell a genuine reference from a fake one?).

I feel I can tell a genuine person from a fake person on a phone call.
Ive been doing it all my working life. Its not that hard to identify liars and falsehoods.

As I said, it doesnt really matter if the majority of people havent had 3 previous landlords. The landlord only needs to find the ones who do.

yqtwqxqm

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I feel I can tell a genuine person from a fake person on a phone call.
Ive been doing it all my working life. Its not that hard to identify liars and falsehoods.

As I said, it doesnt really matter if the majority of people havent had 3 previous landlords. The landlord only needs to find the ones who do.

You will be adding a large amount of extra work and possibly overlooking far better tenants than those who meet the 3 LL criteria.

As for faking references, not very difficult especially if you are looking for LL from years ago who will barely remember the tenant if they even do so they will be a bit all over the place in taking about them.

yqtwqxqm

Ramon Muscular Barricade wrote: »

You will be adding a large amount of extra work and possibly overlooking far better tenants than those who meet the 3 LL criteria.

As for faking references, not very difficult especially if you are looking for LL from years ago who will barely remember the tenant if they even do so they will be a bit all over the place in taking about them.

Of course you will overlook better tenant or job applicants. Thats just the system, but at the end of the day that doesnt matter at all.
One good one is all you need.

Ive been interviewing people for many a year now and can figure out the bull very easily.
My brothers are doing it all the time for their properties (one has been letting properties 25 years now and the other about 15 years) and they have no problems at all with calling referees and picking good tenants based on that and other criteria.
I would think it would be less work actually.
At the viewing you simply request that anyone interested in the property to email you all the details you require later that day.
You discard the ones that dont provide 3 references and the ones you dont see as a good fit. Whats left you pick your favourite and ring his third last reference, then second last and then current. At any stage you can eliminate them and move on to the next.
As soon as you hit on one that you like and they check out you are done.
Very same as interviewing people for a job.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on how difficult this task is.