Craft beer is just for Tourists...

SmoothyG

I love beer, I love interesting and experimental beer and I'm sad to say that I fear the beloved beer revolution of the last few years is starting to show its greedy colours.

Discouraging:
The products on offer are almost entirely aimed at the American tourist market. We have just donned our beer coloured leprechaun outfit and done a wee jig. Where is OUR beer culture gone?

unfriendly:
From what i can see from the social media trends and (low) amount of blogging it would appear that the home market is very small. Or at least not a formed community. How many Irish are actually interested? Guinness, Bulmers, Heineken, Carlsberg, Carling are still wiping the floor in the pints market.

Bad receipts:
Ok so it might not be that much different in the pub, I'm happy to pay the extra 50c to €1 per pint, people buy in rounds and it doesn't work out much more expensive by the end of the night.
but in the off licence the price difference is huge! Buying in some beers because you have friends over for dinner, a game e.t.c becomes more expensive than going to the pub!!!.
A Crate of standard cans €30-40. 24 bottles of craft is €70-100.

This effectively rules out the student market altogether. so there goes the young un's.

Fashionista:
Is this just a trend? will the novelty fade and everyone goes back to larger and Guinness when they shave off their hipster beard?

Dear friends, please help me understand the future (or Lack of) for the Irish Beer Culture.

L1011

SmoothyG wrote: »

The products on offer are almost entirely aimed at the American tourist market. We have just donned our beer coloured leprechaun outfit and done a wee jig. Where is OUR beer culture gone?

No, no they aren't.

Have you actually even seen what is on offer?

The rest of your rant is similarly misinformed. Larger whats?

OldMrBrennan83

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BeerNut

Patww79 wrote: »

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I've never found that. This here forum is part of that scene, and I've always found it open and informative. Are we cliquey?

SmoothyG

BeerNut wrote: »

I've never found that. This here forum is part of that scene, and I've always found it open and informative. Are we cliquey?

L1011 would appear to be proving you wrong here in the first reply. I thought i provided enough caveats at the beginning and end of my post to qualify my concerns.

I was hoping those in the know, such as yourselves, would help encourage me about the future of irish beer. Are we going to be stuck with the american style IPA?

BeerNut

SmoothyG wrote: »

I was hoping those in the know, such as yourselves, would help encourage me about the future of irish beer.

It comes down to drink it or don't drink it as far as I'm concerned. Beer isn't a culture or a lifestyle, it's just something you drink.

SmoothyG wrote: »

Are we going to be stuck with the american style IPA?

It'll be around for the foreseeable as it's very fashionable globally and it's only been produced here for the last ten years or so, so has a bit to run yet I'd say. But Irish breweries are covering the other style bases fairly well, in my opinion. Where do you think they're coming up short?

SmoothyG

L1011 wrote: »

No, no they aren't.

Have you actually even seen what is on offer?

The rest of your rant is similarly misinformed. Larger whats?

was it the bit about the hipster beard that made you go down to the level of pointing out misspellings? Lager if you must.

I'm basing my opinions on what's available locally to me in the pubs and shops. And yes i have drank many many of them. And mostly they remind me of my holiday to California.

SmoothyG

BeerNut wrote: »

Where do you think they're coming up short?

I like strong red ales and German wheat beers. Bocks and IPA's on the tangy side rather than sweet. But I'm not really saying that my tastes are not being met, (some more unfiltered malty 6.5% ale straight from the cask would be nice) I just can't help but noticing a lack of uptake from the Irish in general.
Am I wrong? Is the home market growing?

I think I would like to see more competitive pricing, where I understand its hard to compete with the giants on this, a community focused co-op style approach to distribution and a more collective effort all around might go a long way.

Baron Kurtz

There is a point in what the OP mentioned in terms of pricing maybe. I was in Fresh last week and even for what one would regard as standard (to decent) IPAs, 330ml bottles were all hitting the 4 euro mark. Maybe this is just this particular establishment but generally I haven't noticed the prices this exorbitant in quite a while.

I also find that some pubs that wouldn't be so au fait with their produce but do understand that they have 'craft' beers available always whack the price up over 6 euro, almost in an unthinking arbitrary fashion. It's generally establishments that don't specialise as such.

BeerNut

SmoothyG wrote: »

I just can't help but noticing a lack of uptake from the Irish in general.
Am I wrong? Is the home market growing?

Hugely, but bear in mind it's coming from nothing in a very short space of time. When I started paying attention to these things, independent beer was an immeasurably small part of the market -- the 2008 Competition Authority report on the Beamish takeover provided a handy snapshot of the state of play then and it just dismisses the independents as of no statistical account. The figure bandied about now is 2% of the market being from the independents. That's significant. In the US, "craft" beer, as defined by the Brewers Association, is 12.2% of the market. The US has probably the most developed market so I would regard 12% as about the most that Irish independent beer can aspire to. The macros aren't going to go away no matter how developed the beer scene becomes, so the continued presence of Guinness, Heineken and Bulmers in almost every pub doesn't really signify anything with regard to how independent beer is doing.

SmoothyG wrote: »

I think I would like to see more competitive pricing, where I understand its hard to compete with the giants on this, a community focused co-op style approach to distribution and a more collective effort all around might go a long way.

Have a chat with a brewer or two about this, and they'll tell you why it's a no-go From my experience talking to people in the industry, everyone along the chain from grain to glass thinks they're being shafted, and that of course includes me and you, the customers. My approach is to let the industry do what it does -- there's no point trying to change it -- but to give my custom to beers that offer value. In Dublin there are plenty of places you can get a decent pint of Irish beer for under a fiver. That tends to be the backbone of my pub-drinking life.

L1011

SmoothyG wrote: »

was it the bit about the hipster beard that made you go down to the level of pointing out misspellings? Lager if you must.

I'm basing my opinions on what's available locally to me in the pubs and shops. And yes i have drank many many of them. And mostly they remind me of my holiday to California.

No, it was the fact that none of your statements made sense at all.

How does "beer coloured leprechaun outfit and done a wee jig" and "remind of my holiday to California" even begin to tie together?

RasTa

What is OUR beer culture?

OldMrBrennan83

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BeerNut

Patww79 wrote: »

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Sorry. Derisive of me.

OldMrBrennan83

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adocholiday

I have had this conversation with a fellow beer enthusiast the other day. The craft beer market is dominated by a huge selection of various IPA's these days, and most of which are overpriced. There are lots of interesting beers out there too though, my favourite at the minute being Galway Bay's Kompass - an 8.2% Hopfendunkel Weisse. I've had more than a few of them over the past few weeks and they are smashing at €4.75 for 330ml in Against the Grain.

If you're willing to look for some alternatives to the dominant IPAs there are loads of interesting beers out there. I think the main problem is that the majority of pubs, particularly outside the cities, aren't carrying beers more adventurous than O'Haras. The same could be said for a lot of Off Licences.

a_non_a_mouse

[
BeerNut said:
I've never found that. This here forum is part of that scene, and I've always found it open and informative. Are we cliquey?

Massively so in my opinion. I went from following the forum to not even looking at it these days, in fact I was wondering something the other day but I never even considered this as I knew I'd be either ignored or derided.
</quote>]

Not my experience at all.
Late comer to craft beers and have learnt lots on this form.

OldMrBrennan83

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musiknonstop

RasTa wrote: »

What is OUR beer culture?

Traditional Irish beer like Heineken, Carlsberg and Budweiser :rolleyes:

BeerNut

musiknonstop wrote: »

Traditional Irish beer like Heineken, Carlsberg and Budweiser :rolleyes:

If you take "traditional" to mean "in place for a long time" then yes: not many beers have been brewed in Ireland for longer than those three

Albert_Camus

BeerNut wrote: »

to give my custom to beers that offer value. In Dublin there are plenty of places you can get a decent pint of Irish beer for under a fiver. That tends to be the backbone of my pub-drinking life.

A list of these would be good. I'm finding it harder and harder, so need to expand my pub list!

BeerNut

Well any Galway Bay pub will have Via Maris. The last few months there's been Heathen and 303 as well. If you have a JW Sweetman loyalty card their core beers come in under a fiver and the porter is one of the best in the country, IMO. Porterhouse Central has a €4 pint of the day and on Saturday it's Wrasslers so that's a no-brainer. Between that lot I'm pretty much kept happy. And not an American-style IPA to be seen

oblivious

RasTa wrote: »

What is OUR beer culture?

Traditional whiskey

Albert_Camus

BeerNut wrote: »

Well any Galway Bay pub will have Via Maris. The last few months there's been Heathen and 303 as well. If you have a JW Sweetman loyalty card their core beers come in under a fiver and the porter is one of the best in the country, IMO. Porterhouse Central has a €4 pint of the day and on Saturday it's Wrasslers so that's a no-brainer. Between that lot I'm pretty much kept happy. And not an American-style IPA to be seen

Ah yeah I've all them, I think if go mad if they were all my options Cheers for getting back on it though! See, very helpful forum.

Actually in GBB now trying the 6euro pint of 4.8% Althea ipa. Maybe I'm part of the problem.

oblivious

Albert_Camus wrote: »

A list of these would be good. I'm finding it harder and harder, so need to expand my pub list!

T O Brennans do 4.75 on selected Irish craft on Monday and Tuesdays

Albert_Camus

oblivious wrote: »

T O Brennans do 4.75 on selected Irish craft on Monday and Tuesdays

Wouldn't be out that way, but that's good. Maybe we need a thread. A more positive thread than the usual, ending up discussing how expensive things are. An affordable few tasty ones is always good.

RasTa

Albert_Camus wrote: »

Ah yeah I've all them, I think if go mad if they were all my options Cheers for getting back on it though! See, very helpful forum.

Actually in GBB now trying the 6euro pint of 4.8% Althea ipa. Maybe I'm part of the problem.

I paid €4 for the 330ml glass which I thought was reasonable. Juicy IPA too.

Losty Dublin

SmoothyG wrote: »

but in the off licence the price difference is huge! Buying in some beers because you have friends over for dinner, a game e.t.c becomes more expensive than going to the pub!!!.
A Crate of standard cans €30-40. 24 bottles of craft is €70-100.

The O'Shea range in Aldi retails at €1.89 a bottle. Crafty in Lidi are fairy cheap as well and Solas in Tesco's are reasonable brews. Kinnegar they ain't but it's all good beer for the price and are a lot better than standard cans, so to speak, and will set you back a lot less than €70-€100 for 24 bottles

snowblind

I've found craft beer in Ireland to be cheaper than elsewhere in Europe I have travelled recently - nordics, UK, Italy. Also pub prices are quite similar to those in the states. Off licence prices are dearer here than in the states, but same can be said of other heavily taxed goods and to some extent of retail of any consumer goods.

IPA's sure dominate, but they're also the only one of these new craft beer styles (IPAs now surely are not what they used to be, same with saisons etc) that are done really well in Ireland. There are some hoppy beers that I would figure are world class (at least if compared to the West Coast style) in Ireland, but none of the Irish BA beers, saisons, sours have been on the level of the best I've had. A big problem with this is the resistance to higher prices - any of these beers would absolutely cost a lot more than the fiver a pint.

German styles haven't really taken off in the craft beer world, bar from berliner weisse, it's not really an Ireland thing. Craft beer is quite a global trend, and yes it does and will go through trend cycles and everything that comes with it. One good thing about the craft beer market is that the rarity fetishism isn't even near the ridiculousness of that in the states - people queuing overnight for their allocation of a rare beer etc.

Hipsters are mostly a straw doll in any argument, if you are worried about associating with hipsters you are not allowed to: drink craft beer, have a beard, have glasses, use a bicycle, listen to any music made after the 90s etc. In which case your stylistic choices would be so meticulously chosen you would be the ultimate hipster :P

snowblind

I mean if we're gonna analyze the craft beer market using lazy stereotypes, the chain of craft beer adopters would be

1) The nerds. neckbeard/OCD/ADD/ADHD. Does not necessarily get into craft beer as cultural currency, just dives deep into any hobby they have. Brews at home, is the one who creates the next beer trend without trying. When buying an extension cord, they compare the market for a week in advance for quality of components and not-just-anecdotal evidence of reliability. Secondary qualification: disposable income.

2) The hipsters. Self identifies as a foodie/connoisseur/into the "finer things in life". For these people craft beer is an important signifier in the cultural currency field since Q2/2014. Is just a consumer, does not brew at home because it is too much work. Might start a brewery spending everything in branding and fading out by the first quarterly review. When buying an extension cord, they order the one with most color options on Amazon. Already has disposable income as their lifestyle IS a status symbol.

3) The jocks. When craft beer gets on draft in Flannerys, they might try it to chase an After Shock shot. Steals your extension cord.

newacc2015

adocholiday wrote: »

I have had this conversation with a fellow beer enthusiast the other day. The craft beer market is dominated by a huge selection of various IPA's these days, and most of which are overpriced. There are lots of interesting beers out there too though, my favourite at the minute being Galway Bay's Kompass - an 8.2% Hopfendunkel Weisse. I've had more than a few of them over the past few weeks and they are smashing at €4.75 for 330ml in Against the Grain.

Overpriced relative to what? A mass produced beer produced 24/7 by an automated production line? Have you visited the new production facility in Diageo? It is producing tens of thousands of litres of beer per week with only 2/3 staff on the floor at a time. The whole process is pretty much automated. Craft beers have massive overheads compared to a mass produced beer by Diageo.