Parking fine for not displaying a valid tax cert

palong88

Hi all,

I received a parking fine today for not displaying a Valid Tax Cert.

The car was parked in Cork City, where we use Parking Discs.

The road on which the car was parked is not a Parking Disc area and allows for free parking all day. There are no signs to declare that it is required to pay for parking and it is outside a recently closed down business. There was a few cars parked there and they did not receive parking fines.

I have parked there many times but the traffic wardens do not issue a parking fine.

Does this mean that the section of road I am on is private as it is owned by the adjacent business, (The owner said I can park there before the business closed.) and not a public place.

Thanks

venomousfrog

Hi, same happened to me in Kildare a few months back, I had a valid parking ticket but tax was out by 1 month and they gave me a 60euro fine for not displaying current tax disc. It was on the main street in Newbridge. :mad:

phil1nj

"Not only are you obliged by law to pay motor tax to drive your vehicle, you are also required to display evidence that you have paid (i.e., a current tax disc) on the windscreen of your vehicle. Failure to display a current tax disc on your vehicle is considered a motoring offence and will result in a €60 fixed-charge fine issued by a traffic warden or a Garda."

from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/

Was the tax out of date on the car?

ofcork

You were fined i assume by what you say for tax out of date not for parking,is your tax out of date?

bazz26

If I am reading this correctly the fine has nothing to do with having a valid parking disc, it is for not displaying a valid tax disc in a public place. Once the car is in a pubic place then it is required to be taxed and display a current valid tax disc. Is the car actually taxed?

vandriver

'...Does this mean that the section of road I am on is private as it is owned by the adjacent business, (The owner said I can park there before the business closed.) and not a public place....'
No,it means you need to pay your motor tax.

palong88

Sorry , I didn't say.

The tax Disc Displayed on the car is out of date.

I have purchased my Motor Tax Wednesday last week and I am waiting for the Disc to arrive.


The law states it is a public place, but the section of road the car was parked on is a private road.

vandriver

palong88 wrote: »

Sorry , I didn't say.

The tax Disc Displayed on the car is out of date.

I have purchased my Motor Tax Wednesday last week and I am waiting for the Disc to arrive.


The law states it is a public place, but the section of road the car was parked on is a private road.

It can be both.

palong88

vandriver wrote: »

It can be both.

Ok, thanks. I Just wanted to make sure that the fine was justified. I do my best to pay my motor tax on time, but I was away for the last week of April and First of May.

Does this mean though, that a parking attendant could fine you for an out of tax car parked outside your house on a private road. This seems a little ridiculous to me.

Oafley Jones

palong88 wrote: »

Ok, thanks. I Just wanted to make sure that the fine was justified. I do my best to pay my motor tax on time, but I was away for the last week of April and First of May.

Does this mean though, that a parking attendant could fine you for an out of tax car parked outside your house on a private road. This seems a little ridiculous to me.

If the public can freely access it, then yes.

palong88

Oafley Jones wrote: »

If the public can freely access it, then yes.

OK thanks.

bazz26

Technically non displaying of a valid current motor tax disc in a public place is an offense which is what happened.

Public Place definition his here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/7/section/49/enacted/en/html

(iv) by the substitution for the definition of “public place” of the following definition:

“‘public place’ means—

(a) any public road, and

(b) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;”;

However if you talk to the people where you pay the parking fines, the fine will probably be thrown out once you can prove you had your motor tax paid.

Ashbx

Wow, I never knew parking attendants could do anything about out of date tax...I assumed it was only the Guards!!!

Carawaystick

palong88 wrote: »

Does this mean though, that a parking attendant could fine you for an out of tax car parked outside your house on a private road. This seems a little ridiculous to me.

Why? If you keep the car in a public place, it has to be taxed.
If you want to keep it in a private place, then do that, and don't worry about the tax.

palong88

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why? If you keep the car in a public place, it has to be taxed.
If you want to keep it in a private place, then do that, and don't worry about the tax.

Just because it was a private road.

I'll appeal anyway, don't think I'll have much luck to be honest.

I'll let ye know how it goes!

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

Technically non displaying of a valid current motor tax disc in a public place is an offense which is what happened.

Public Place definition his here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/7/section/49/enacted/en/html

(iv) by the substitution for the definition of “public place” of the following definition:

“‘public place’ means—

(a) any public road, and

(b) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;”;

However if you talk to the people where you pay the parking fines, the fine will probably be thrown out once you can prove you had your motor tax paid.

I think I'd argue this.

A multistorey car park which is privately owned and operated for profit would fall into the above definition of public place, but it is entirely a private place.

back when people used to do the whole tax on for 3 months, off for 3 months thing, not being able to be done for not displaying a valid disc was one of the pros to using a private car park (as the traffic wardens can't patrol them).

Otherwise, as said above, the warden can wander into your front garden and nail you for no tax disc etc. if you don't have a gate (cos it's publicly accessible ).

ironclaw

palong88 wrote: »

Just because it was a private road.

Why is it a private road? Unless its gated or you need a permit or permission to access it, and its not freely open to the public, then its a public road and place. For example, there is only one private road in London, and I'm unaware of any in Dublin or Cork.

uck51js9zml2yt

I assume you needed to drive on a public road to get to or leave your "private road" which would have required you to have a valid tax disc on display.
Pay your fine and your tax like the rest of us and stop trying to wriggle out of it.

ironclaw

Deleted User wrote: »

Otherwise, as said above, the warden can wander into your front garden and nail you for no tax disc etc. if you don't have a gate (cos it's publicly accessible ).

Its publically accessible but it would be trespass, hence unlawful for the warden to be there without invitation. Public / Private places are really complex areas of law.

savagethegoat

a front garden is not a public place. A public Place is somewhere where the public are allowed access such as a shopping centre, obviously the inference is that you drove there.

You don't say how long the tax was out. If it was out since the end of April, and you had actually paid it and can prove it, I'd say your appeal has a good chance.

palong88

Paula Orange Flatware wrote: »

I assume you needed to drive on a public road to get to or leave your "private road" which would have required you to have a valid tax disc on display.
Pay your fine and your tax like the rest of us and stop trying to wriggle out of it.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you.

My tax is paid I am currently waiting for the disc to arrive. I can drive on public roads, if I wish.

I'm well within my right to appeal. If the appeal fails, I'll pay the fine.

bazz26

palong88 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you.

My tax is paid I am currently waiting for the disc to arrive. I can drive on public roads, if I wish.

I'm well within my right to appeal. If the appeal fails, I'll pay the fine.

Just to clear something up. Having your car taxed and displaying a valid tax disc are two separate things. You are required to have your car taxed but you are also required to have a valid tax disc displayed which is what you were fined for not having. Now I know the disc had not arrived and the fine will probably get stricken off because of common sense but technically if the letter of the law were to be followed then they are not obliged to strike off the fine.

Of course in this day and age the requirement to display discs in the windscreen is arcade and should be done away with like in the UK. The wheel of course turns a lot slower in good old Ireland.

Buffman

palong88 wrote: »

The tax Disc Displayed on the car is out of date.

I have purchased my Motor Tax Wednesday last week and I am waiting for the Disc to arrive.

Don't worry about it, as you have paid for your tax you can appeal it and it will be cancelled. From the Garda website:

Cancellation Request Categories.

Cancellation requests fall into two categories. Category A covers mainly procedural issues. Category B relate to cancellations based on exceptional circumstances e.g. .
Category A
Cancellation requests falling within this category include –


.......................
In relation to an FCN for non-display of motor tax or insurance disc, motor tax had been taken out or applied for, or in the case of the non display of an insurance disc motor insurance was in place, at the time of the alleged offence....................


In the case of a fixed charge notice issued for non-display of a current tax disc –
- An application will be considered if the vehicle was taxed at the time but the tax disc was accidentally removed from the vehicle or lost prior to the issue of the FCN, while an application will be refused if the vehicle wasn’t taxed and the applicant cannot provide evidence that an application for motor tax had been made prior to the issuing of the FCN.
Cancellation Procedure
If you believe you have grounds to appeal a FCN you should complete a FCN Cancellation Request Form immediately and forward it to the FCPO with any required supporting documentation. For further information on supporting documentation required please see FCN Cancellation Request Form Guidance Notes An application for cancellation of a FCN should be submitted as early as possible to ensure there is sufficient time for a decision to be made on the cancellation request.
Please note the 28 day and 56 day period for payment of the fixed charge is not suspended while a cancellation request is being considered.
Having considered the application the Cancelling Authority will ensure you are notified in writing of the decision as soon as possible.

I'm guessing you may have been fined by a county council, if so, contact them and it will be cancelled. You will probably need proof of payment.

palong88 wrote: »

Does this mean though, that a parking attendant could fine you for an out of tax car parked outside your house on a private road. This seems a little ridiculous to me.

Yes, display of motor tax is the only other thing that a council warden can fine you for as well as parking.

Marcusm

palong88 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you.

My tax is paid I am currently waiting for the disc to arrive. I can drive on public roads, if I wish.

I'm well within my right to appeal. If the appeal fails, I'll pay the fine.

Appeal away but there are two distinct offences, failure to tax your car and failure to display the disk. If you were away for the entire time from when you could have obtained a new disk until the fine date you might have a case. If you were simply deleterious in applying for the disk, I'd hope you get short shrift. The cost of running the court case is far beyond your fine and you could have avoided the issue arising but chose/failed to do so. I'd have much more sympathy if you'd been away for 3 months or you'd just bought the car and the disk was in the post. Those would be vlud defences where you'd exhausted all opportunities.

peteb2

Just don't fail the attitude test when you visit the Gardai op. But I suspect.......

Duiske

Paula Orange Flatware wrote: »

Pay your fine and your tax like the rest of us and stop trying to wriggle out of it.

He has paid his tax. Last Wednesday. Op, if you contact the local authority fines department and can provide proof of paying your motor tax last Wednesday, they will drop the fine. Chances are it will be dropped regardless of you contacting them. I was caught in a similar situation a couple of years ago in Waterford. I didn't squibble about it really because the fine was for non-display rather than no tax. I had paid the tax a few days beforehand. Tried to pay the fine online but the system did not recognise the ticket number. When I phoned was told that the inspector checks wether the car has been recently taxed, and if it has been the fine is withdrawn.

magentis

palong88 wrote: »

Sorry , I didn't say.

The tax Disc Displayed on the car is out of date.

I have purchased my Motor Tax Wednesday last week and I am waiting for the Disc to arrive.


The law states it is a public place, but the section of road the car was parked on is a private road.

Damn,

You are just so unlucky op.
I paid my tax on thursday evening and got the disc yesterday morning.

GM228

Buffman wrote: »

Yes, display of motor tax is the only other thing that a council warden can fine you for as well as parking.

They also have the power to fine you in relation to display of NCT since 2006, but have not been able to exercise that power since 2009 due to not updating the legislation.

savagethegoat

Duiske wrote: »

He has paid his tax. Last Wednesday. Op, if you contact the local authority fines department and can provide proof of paying your motor tax last Wednesday, they will drop the fine. Chances are it will be dropped regardless of you contacting them. I was caught in a similar situation a couple of years ago in Waterford. I didn't squibble about it really because the fine was for non-display rather than no tax. I had paid the tax a few days beforehand. Tried to pay the fine online but the system did not recognise the ticket number. When I phoned was told that the inspector checks wether the car has been recently taxed, and if it has been the fine is withdrawn.

squibble? todays new word? works doesn't it!

ebbsy

I got the same ticket once. Didn't pay it. Ended up in court.

Judge asked had I paid the arrears. I said I had.

Didn't get fined. Anyone who wasn't up to date did....

Speedsie

ironclaw wrote: »

Why is it a private road? Unless its gated or you need a permit or permission to access it, and its not freely open to the public, then its a public road and place. For example, there is only one private road in London, and I'm unaware of any in Dublin or Cork.

There's at least one private road in Dublin, it's in Rathmines and is a cul-de-sac.
About 8 houses at the start of the road applied to DCC to have their half of the road taken into public ownership last year. I'm not sure if that's gone ahead yet or not, not what will happen to the other half.

peteb2

Speedsie wrote: »

There's at least one private road in Dublin, it's in Rathmines and is a cul-de-sac.
About 8 houses at the start of the road applied to DCC to have their half of the road taken into public ownership last year. I'm not sure if that's gone ahead yet or not, not what will happen to the other half.

That doesn't make it a private road under the road traffic act. Completely different matter to have the council take something over

Speedsie

Speedsie wrote: »

There's at least one private road in Dublin, it's in Rathmines and is a cul-de-sac.
About 8 houses at the start of the road applied to DCC to have their half of the road taken into public ownership last year. I'm not sure if that's gone ahead yet or not, not what will happen to the other half.

Aren't their roads about IFSC, which are private?

(could well be wrong)