Buying Property - Neighbouring house illegal extension

jokeragain

Hi all,

Context:-
I am considering buying a house and upon inspection i noticed the next door neighbour had a "sizeable" extension.

I reviewed the dublin city council planning application request and I note that the neighbour had made multiple planning requests for this extension, their applications were rejected on 4 occasions.

Needless to say, the extension exists. I assume it is an extension without planning.

My query:-

I am considering buying the house next door and also wish to extend (naturally within planning limits).

Will the next door neighbours illegal extension have a bearing on the value of my house over time?
How would you approach this with a planning application?
Could you suggest any gotchas to watch out for?

Thanks very much all.

BryanF

IMHO The only question here is what you are going to do about reporting your potiential future neighbour to the local authority.

Your extension is your business. Nothing to do with your neighbour.

The Future property value is for a local auctioneer (or 3) to answer ( try the accommodation & property forum)

DOCARCH

The neighbor may have been refused planning permission for a large(r) extension, and, after 4 attempts/refusals, given up and built an extension as an exempt development (i.e. sub 40 m.sq.)?

Dardania

It might give an indication that the local council are not inclined to grant permission.

What were the refusal reasons?

Can you still adapt the house to your satisfaction staying within the 40m exempted development allowance?

BryanF

Fare point Doc,

OP, Is the first floor adjacent / on your boundary? What makes it sizeable

jokeragain

DOCARCH wrote: »

The neighbor may have been refused planning permission for a large(r) extension, and, after 4 attempts/refusals, given up and built an extension as an exempt development (i.e. sub 40 m.sq.)?

Thank you all for your response.

I believe this is not the case for the following reason.

The houses are terraced by nature.
The ground floor extension most certainly does not leave a 25sqm garden
The first floor extension is greater than 12sqm
The first floor is not on the party wall but they have build next to the party wall. (less than 2m)
Local planning decisions on surrounding houses have made reference to this terrace not having planning.

jokeragain

Dardania wrote: »

It might give an indication that the local council are not inclined to grant permission.

What were the refusal reasons?

Can you still adapt the house to your satisfaction staying within the 40m exempted development allowance?

Local council has given planning to surrounding houses which would be less than 40m but require planning (i.e. 1st floor less than 2m from boundary wall) very recently.
This would be to my satisfaction.

Funny you asked about refusal reason. The applications online just say "refused", no supporting documents can be found. Might have to give them a call.

My general concern is about property value in the future due to the neighbours extension.
Any concerns from your point?

Gumbo

jokeragain wrote: »

Local council has given planning to surrounding houses which would be less than 40m but require planning (i.e. 1st floor less than 2m from boundary wall) very recently.
This would be to my satisfaction.

Funny you asked about refusal reason. The applications online just say "refused", no supporting documents can be found. Might have to give them a call.

My general concern is about property value in the future due to the neighbours extension.
Any concerns from your point?

Does it impact on the property?
If it had planning, would that make your house less or more attractive?

jokeragain

kceire wrote: »

Does it impact on the property?
If it had planning, would that make your house less or more attractive?

Good question.

1 - I would say it slightly impacts on the property. Property is south facing and the attic on their side overreaches which essentially means it would block light access to my "future attic".

2 - Good thought experiment, but I can't answer it because it does not have planning. Naturally, if the next door did have planning that would be a positive impact. But it simply does not and has had planning rejected on 4 occasions.

Angry bird

Perhaps. Do the refusal reasons include words like negative impact upon neighbouring amenities, undue overshadowing?

jokeragain

Angry bird wrote: »

Perhaps. Do the refusal reasons include words like negative impact upon neighbouring amenities, undue overshadowing?

The refusal reasons just state, "refused", the supplied application documents can no longer be found on the dublin city website.

Gumbo

jokeragain wrote: »

The refusal reasons just state, "refused", the supplied application documents can no longer be found on the dublin city website.

PM me the address or the plan ref numbers.

jokeragain

All,

Just to give an update for anyone that is interested.

I went down to Dublin civic centre with the ref number. To my surprise the next door neighbours were granted planning permission.
However, they were granted planning permission for a smaller structure!!

Dublin City Council only started recording planning applications in PDF format from 2005, so since this application took place prior, I had to go down there to look at the microfilm. That's why I could not find submitted documents online.

I found the elevations on the microfilm and took a photo of them and compared that with a side elevation photo I took of the neighbour's house. They do not match. The neighbors extension is bigger in the attic (3rd floor) and is not acceptable planning wise.

However, the statute of limitations is 7 years. Since the submission was prior to 7 years and the statute applies they cannot enforce change. However the neighbour will not have planning for the structure they currently own. So pretty snookered all round.

Leaves me in a place where i'm not sure whether to proceed.

mad m

OP, personally if it was me I'd walk away. Down the line this may impact you if you try to sell.

sydthebeat

jokeragain wrote: »

However, the statute of limitations is 7 years. Since the submission was prior to 7 years and the statute applies they cannot enforce change. However the neighbour will not have planning for the structure they currently own. So pretty snookered all round.

Leaves me in a place where i'm not sure whether to proceed.

the statue of limitation begins after the initial planning permission has elapsed...

so its 5 years + 7 years after the date of grant....

but probably of no help to you anyway

jokeragain

madm - I agree with your analysis and i've mentally walked away. Pretty disappointing though, i really liked the location.

sydthebeat - are you sure? planning supervisor said 7 years after planning application...

Johnnyhpipe

While it is of course frustrating, are you planning to buy this place to live in and enjoy or to worry about its resale value?

If its not that big of a deal to you personally, and you're happy with everything else, then go for it and enjoy your life there.

If you do go for it however, and you're already worried about resale value, then also use that to bring down the current value. Be straight up with the vendor as to why you're not entirely satisfied as the neighbouring extension is illegal..but note that you might be convinced at a lower price. That is, of course, if you love and are satisfied with all other aspects of the house.

Either way, its a huge investment, so don't rush into it unless you're fully satisfied.

sydthebeat

jokeragain wrote: »

sydthebeat - are you sure? planning supervisor said 7 years after planning application...

yes im very sure, it states it in the law:

Planning and Development Act, 2000 Section 160 Article 6:
Injunctions in relation to unauthorised development.
(6) (a) An application to the High Court or Circuit Court for an order under this section shall not be made—
(i) in respect of a development where no permission has been granted, after the expiration of a period of 7 years from the date of the commencement of the development, or
(ii) in respect of a development for which permission has been granted under Part III, after the expiration of a period of 7 years beginning on the expiration, as respects the permission authorising the development, of the appropriate period or, as the case may be, of the appropriate period as extended.

so....

when planning permission has been granted, the 7 year statute of limitations does not begin until after the expiry of the permission period.

Markcheese

jokeragain wrote:

madm - I agree with your analysis and i've mentally walked away. Pretty disappointing though, i really liked the location.

Would have thought any impact on value would start now, while you're looking to buy, (after all the extension is built), if you're ok with how it looks and impacts on light now then go for it...
Would a planning complaint/objection achieve much,apart from pissing off your potential neighbour..
Council wont make him take it down anyway...

Gumbo

jokeragain wrote: »

madm - I agree with your analysis and i've mentally walked away. Pretty disappointing though, i really liked the location.

sydthebeat - are you sure? planning supervisor said 7 years after planning application...

What year was the planning granted in?
And also, if the the application was conditioned that it had to be a particular size, then the 7 year rule increases also.

Angry bird

In this case it would be 12 years.

Calahonda52

Fingal precedent
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dublin-couple-ordered-to-demolish-extension-built-without-planning-permisson-30663301.html