Anyone here get company offering to use land for solar?

Beenlost123

I got an interesting offer today. A gentleman from a company seeking to use our land to install a solar farm as we are close to a terminal to upload the solar energy. He was offering 700e-1000e / year an acre. Has anyone else been offered this?

quentingargan

I find it worrying that there is a plethora of companies trying to sign up farmers in advance of the country even knowing what the feed in tariff regime will be. This is not the right model for solar in Ireland - we should at least start by using factory, farm and residential roofs and even for ground mounted systems, it would be better to allow the systems and their publicly incentivised income belong to local people rather than overseas investment funds.

Would you think about doing this yourself? Personally I would hold off and see what the incentives are. Then see if you can do it yourself or do it with other local investors. I would be reluctant to sign anything until we know what the possibilities are. If the country is to have solar parks, I would prefer if they were locally owned and built, but I think farm and factory roofs should be our first choice.

Conor20

Beenlost123 wrote: »

I got an interesting offer today. A gentleman from a company seeking to use our land to install a solar farm as we are close to a terminal to upload the solar energy. He was offering 700e-1000e / year an acre. Has anyone else been offered this?

How many years was the offer for? Comparing that level to the afforestation grants, which are at most €310 per acre for 13 years, what you have been offerred looks like a favourable return per acre of land. ALthough I don't have exact figures, only estimates from my family, it is also more than can be earned per acre raising cattle. On the face of it, this would seem like a good deal. Obviously, you'd need to be sure the contract is favourable - after the period specified, you have the option to take the land back in full, etc.

Thinking about this further, it's interesting to work out whether it's more environmentally friendly to use an acre of farmland to generate solar PV (thus offsetting carbon emitted from power plants) or to plant hardwood forestry (which absorb carbon to create wood matter as they grow).

From a little research, an acre of hardwood absorbs 1026.415kg of CO2 per year on average over a 100 year lifespan. We'd have to guess a little at the generation potential of an acre. Taking a stab at this: 1 acre is 4046m^2. A 250 watt panel is about 1.5m^2, so you could fit 2,697 panels with no space inbetween. To allow for space between the rows, you might fit half that, or 1,348 panels @ 250 watts = a solar farm with 337kWp per acre. Estimating the yearly yield, I'll extropolate the performance of another PV system I know of in Ireland which is 3.5kwp generating 3,207 kWh per year. That means 916kWh per year per 1 kWp, which would mean 308,788kWh per year generated by a 337kWp system. The irish grid emissions intensity averages at 450 gCO2 per kWh, so the system would avert 138,954kg CO2 per year.

Comparing those final figures, 1 acre of hardwood forestry absorbs 1,026kg of CO2 per year and 1 acre of solar prevents 138,954kg CO2 per year. I am surprised to see that solar has a better environmental performance.

Financially, 308,788kWh @ a Feed In Tariff of €0.07 = €21,615 per year generated by the panels. They pay you €1,000 per year, so keep €20,615. 1,348 panels @ €125 per panel (including the inverter, mounts and wiring costs in to that figure also) means the system costs €168,500 to install, with a payback of 168,500 / 20,615 = 8.17 years before they have recouped the cost of the panels and start making money. If you signed for 25 years, their 25 ROI would be ~17 years * 20,615 = €346,875 profit, which is a 205% ROI, or 8.2% per annum. You would have earned €25,000. Note that all of the maths above are very much back of the envelope, simply to try to get a sense of how it all works out.

Certainly looks like an interesting proposal that may be mutually beneficial for you, the solar company, and the environment.

Beenlost123

Conor20 wrote: »

How many years was the offer for? Comparing that level to the afforestation grants, which are at most €310 per acre for 13 years, what you have been offerred looks like a favourable return per acre of land. ALthough I don't have exact figures, only estimates from my family, it is also more than can be earned per acre raising cattle. On the face of it, this would seem like a good deal. Obviously, you'd need to be sure the contract is favourable - after the period specified, you have the option to take the land back in full, etc.

Thinking about this further, it's interesting to work out whether it's more environmentally friendly to use an acre of farmland to generate solar PV (thus offsetting carbon emitted from power plants) or to plant hardwood forestry (which absorb carbon to create wood matter as they grow).

From a little research, an acre of hardwood absorbs 1026.415kg of CO2 per year on average over a 100 year lifespan. We'd have to guess a little at the generation potential of an acre. Taking a stab at this: 1 acre is 4046m^2. A 250 watt panel is about 1.5m^2, so you could fit 2,697 panels with no space inbetween. To allow for space between the rows, you might fit half that, or 1,348 panels @ 250 watts = a solar farm with 337kWp per acre. Estimating the yearly yield, I'll extropolate the performance of another PV system I know of in Ireland which is 3.5kwp generating 3,207 kWh per year. That means 916kWh per year per 1 kWp, which would mean 308,788kWh per year generated by a 337kWp system. The irish grid emissions intensity averages at 450 gCO2 per kWh, so the system would avert 138,954kg CO2 per year.

Comparing those final figures, 1 acre of hardwood forestry absorbs 1,026kg of CO2 per year and 1 acre of solar prevents 138,954kg CO2 per year. I am surprised to see that solar has a better environmental performance.

Financially, 308,788kWh @ a Feed In Tariff of €0.07 = €21,615 per year generated by the panels. They pay you €1,000 per year, so keep €20,615. 2,697 panels @ €125 per panel (including the inverter, mounts and wiring costs in to that figure also) means the system costs €337,125 to install, with a payback of 337,125 / 20,615 = 16 years before they have recouped the cost of the panels and start making money. If you signed for 25 years, their 25 ROI would be ~9 years * 20,615 = €185,535 profit, which is a 55% ROI, or 2.2% per annum. You would have earned €25,000. Note that all of the maths above are very much back of the envelope, simply to try to get a sense of how it all works out.

Certainly looks like an interesting proposal that may be mutually beneficial for you, the solar company, and the environment.

Youre amazing. Thank you so much for doing out the sums. I attempted it but you have laid it out more logically. Ill keep you informed if you wish about the outcome of this. We were supposed to meet last saturday but it fell through. Will keep this board updated for people in the future. It sounds too good to be true to be honest. I dont have any major details yet besides initial payment of what we would get per acre.

Conor20

Beenlost123 wrote: »

Youre amazing. Thank you so much for doing out the sums. I attempted it but you have laid it out more logically. Ill keep you informed if you wish about the outcome of this. We were supposed to meet last saturday but it fell through. Will keep this board updated for people in the future. It sounds too good to be true to be honest. I dont have any major details yet besides initial payment of what we would get per acre.

No problem. Please do keep us informed. I have forested some land - for a mix of financial return and environmental reasons - but if the maths above turn out to be correct, solar PV looks like a better option for both financial and environmental return for land when the Solar PV FIT is introduced.

(I corrected some of the figures in my calculations as I had originally used the wrong number of panels - the return for the solar company is actually higher than I had originally anticipated @ ~8%)

rolion

Conor20 wrote: »

No problem. Please do keep us informed. I have forested some land - for a mix of financial return and environmental reasons - but if the maths above turn out to be correct, solar PV looks like a better option for both financial and environmental return for land when the Solar PV FIT is introduced.

(I corrected some of the figures in my calculations as I had originally used the wrong number of panels - the return for the solar company is actually higher than I had originally anticipated @ ~8%)

Conor,thanks for the maths but practical,the solar company is investing for a profit AND taking the consideration the risk (this month only few hours of sun) i will highly review those numbers downward,more lower.

quentingargan

rolion wrote: »

Conor,thanks for the maths but practical,the solar company is investing for a profit AND taking the consideration the risk (this month only few hours of sun) i will highly review those numbers downward,more lower.

Don't worry... the developers won't be losing money on these projects. My concern is that I would prefer to see these (and wind farms) with more community ownership. One of the major players in this sector is funded by Australian investors. So we end up with a PSO levy on our electricity funding lucrative solar parks with the profits going to Oz. (see here). The few grand they chuck at the farmer will come out of patty cash. Wouldn't it be better if these could be in Irish and local ownership?

In the UK, these solar parks quickly gobbled up the grid capacity, and in huge areas of the UK, domestic houses and industries are unable to connect up solar because of this. That could happen quite quickly here too..

Conor20

Conor20 wrote: »

Certainly looks like an interesting proposal that may be mutually beneficial for you, the solar company, and the environment.

I disagree wholeheartedly. If there was an incentive for power produced by the public and industry, and let's call €0.07 that albeit far less than the end user market value, it'd be far more lucrative to self-finance your own system instead of renting the land for it.

On a smaller scale not paying people for local (rooftop) power generated at point of use with pre-existing services is madness.
It's not a privilege to be paid for electricity, it's got an agreed market value and homebrew power is every bit as good as imported. Not making an agreement to pay that to stakeholders is exploitation an monopolisation, and furthermore biasing CCGT generation.
Privatisation will only serve to entrench the disparity.

I find it embarrassing to be a citizen of a nation with such antiquated beliefs, the shear lack of RE technology across the country and what the councils have installed are sited so badly most of the time it beggars belief.

We have no intentions of meeting our 2020 emission reduction targets with the best wind resource in Europe outside of Scotland and untapped PV potential. :rolleyes:

Beenlost123

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly. If there was an incentive for power produced by the public and industry, and let's call €0.07 that albeit far less than the end user market value, it'd be far more lucrative to self-finance your own system instead of renting the land for it.

On a smaller scale not paying people for local (rooftop) power generated at point of use with pre-existing services is madness.
It's not a privilege to be paid for electricity, it's got an agreed market value and homebrew power is every bit as good as imported. Not making an agreement to pay that to stakeholders is exploitation an monopolisation, and furthermore biasing CCGT generation.
Privatisation will only serve to entrench the disparity.

I find it embarrassing to be a citizen of a nation with such antiquated beliefs, the shear lack of RE technology across the country and what the councils have installed are sited so badly most of the time it beggars belief.

We have no intentions of meeting our 2020 emission reduction targets with the best wind resource in Europe outside of Scotland and untapped PV potential. :rolleyes:

I see what youre saying but the company that offered this to me is the only person who has access to the terminal to feed the electricity in. Thats the problem. We cant come together and try and self finance it yet still probably be denied entry into the grid. We do not have the experience or vision to do it either nor the experience to attract sufficient capital where as these people do.

Edit: take what I am saying with a pinch of salt. I am just a humble farmer. I am just speculating. I wish there was a consultancy company out there we could use to help us set this up and form a group. We already have locals objecting out of jealousy so this is not going to be super easy. There are risks and most people without experience can not foresee these risks. My understand is this whole thing is based on gov subsidies anyway that have yet to come about as well.

There is no terminal to access the grid. The grid is the grid all you need is two wires and if they are willing to pay you for it then an export meter and some paperwork.

I've a grid tied system I self-installed, works great, no subsidies, no registered electrical contractor, second hand gear, G83/2 compliant inverter, works because it's small and most of what it generates is used on site so my payback is less than 4 years.


The point I'm making isn't directed at any individual it's the mentality of our sovereigns that won't support the people they are elected to represent but are happy to accommodate big industry that wants to develop agricultural land. So short-sighted

quentingargan

I find it curious that while none of us ordinary folk has a clue what the feed in tariff will be, or when it is to be announced, a few companies are actively investing in planning permission, land access, and getting ready to go. Do they know something we don't? It is sickening if this is the case.

The gate system is geared towards large operators with deep pockets, but it shouldn't be impossible to get heads together and form a consultancy that could find out what is required. The land in this case is the main asset, and land is being targetted because it is close to sub-stations where there is grid capacity.

I'd say you're not the only farmer feeling that this is the only option. Perhaps you should approach your IFA / ICSA or other farm organisation and see if you can collectively get the expertise required.

Beenlost123

quentingargan wrote: »

I find it curious that while none of us ordinary folk has a clue what the feed in tariff will be, or when it is to be announced, a few companies are actively investing in planning permission, land access, and getting ready to go. Do they know something we don't? It is sickening if this is the case.

The gate system is geared towards large operators with deep pockets, but it shouldn't be impossible to get heads together and form a consultancy that could find out what is required. The land in this case is the main asset, and land is being targetted because it is close to sub-stations where there is grid capacity.

I'd say you're not the only farmer feeling that this is the only option. Perhaps you should approach your IFA / ICSA or other farm organisation and see if you can collectively get the expertise required.

Yeah, I find that curious too. I am going to ask them directly what they think they will get and will reply here. Its obviously geared towards large pockets because this project is only viable with giant economies of scale. Lets not forget its probably money your pension or investment that is really providing the capital for projects like this. If there was little to no savings capital abound to look for investments, projects like this may never get off the ground. Those pension funds or investor for example are getting a return and rightfully so for time and risk.

IFA are useless. They have no one that is modern enough to deal with this situation. The only chance we have is if we go as a group to another firm that installs solar in ireland (and there are a few) and try and get the best deal as a collective. Thats just speculation. I will ring IFA and see if they can get us in touch with any community driven project like this in Ireland.

Come to think of it. Countries like france and other countries must have vast experience of this as they are at least ten years ahead of us for solar farms. Maybe we could grab some of their talent to implement it.

Conor20

quentingargan wrote: »

I find it curious that while none of us ordinary folk has a clue what the feed in tariff will be, or when it is to be announced, a few companies are actively investing in planning permission, land access, and getting ready to go. Do they know something we don't? It is sickening if this is the case.

Agreed - I don't know how the companies know about the FIT, but the fact that solar companies from the north are opening offices in the south and offering commercial scale Solar PV installations at no cost to land / building owners says that it definitely is. It would only make sense for them to do this if a FIT is definitely coming in. I guess we can just work off this information and prepare ourselves as best as possible for it's introduction. For farmers, that means making sure the IFA make themselves aware of what's coming in so they can make Solar PV as beneficial and easy an option as possible for farmers.

quentingargan wrote: »

The gate system is geared towards large operators with deep pockets, but it shouldn't be impossible to get heads together and form a consultancy that could find out what is required. The land in this case is the main asset, and land is being targetted because it is close to sub-stations where there is grid capacity.

I understand the gate system will not be used for Solar PV. It's not going to be connected to the high voltage network like wind farms are, it's going to be connected to local distribution networks. Again, this is from talking to PV companies, not to Eirgrid. If it's true, that will make it much easier for farmers and home owners to get setup with Solar PV - it will remove the queue for Eirgrid / ESB networks to physically connect your Solar farm, an electrician will be able to do it.

quentingargan

There is another thread on Boardss that links to this RTE news item. James Murphy of IFA is interviewed and seems to be clued in on the issues. He would be worth talking to.

IFA says 6,000 acres have options for solar farms taken up by solar developers and James Murphy goes on to say that they want to move away from developer driven projects to community ones with the option to buy in. So I think they would be on board...

Calahonda52

quentingargan wrote: »

There is another thread on Boardss that links to this RTE news item. James Murphy of IFA is interviewed and seems to be clued in on the issues. He would be worth talking to.

IFA says 6,000 acres have options for solar farms taken up by solar developers and James Murphy goes on to say that they want to move away from developer driven projects to community ones with the option to buy in. So I think they would be on board...

For community read farmers only: their idea of community is warped beyond belief.

quentingargan

Calahonda52 wrote: »

For community read farmers only: their idea of community is warped beyond belief.

You think farmers shouldn't own solar parks on their land? I'd prefer wide public ownership of solar including householdsrs, industry and farmers to overseas banks

LPGParkLane

just my 5 cents...Usually this guys look for 25 acre sites..
economy of scale ..o ..another thing ..existing 38kV or price drops like a stone to more like 200 per acre..
costs of putting 38kV line are prohibitive unless scale is there.
Marginal lands subsidies might disappear too.. Give with one hand ..take with another..

robcass78

Great work on the numbers!

I've just returned to rural Ireland (doing solar & other projects internationally; powered 300,000 homes so I am lucky to have screwed up a few projects and got fingers burnt)), and have friends in farming being fed complete & utter ****e from all parties; Teagasc, IFA, Government, banks.

1. A farmer can finance solar developments; banks in the UK and some here (AIB) are lending, as makes complete sense to generate an income. In fact, it's a great low risk asset for banks, as not as if the damn sun is going to stop tomorrow, and it gives a regular income with stable cashflow.

1000 euro an acre is a outright rip-off; that's like saying we'll take your cows and make 20,000 a year profit, and give you 1,000; would that be fair??

Further, the price tariff (out in next 3-6 months) will be 8-10c, and whilst this is far below what UK farmers (15c) and German farmers (25c) get, it raises a big damn question; why has fat Phil Hogan, IFA, Teagasc and governments not said "Farmers, we know you're struggling, let's help you generate 20k an acre AND lower your milk heating costs so you're cost to produce is lower and compete against European competition?" Or "why are UK and German farmers getting 300% to 500% more to produce energy and being . An answer may be "We want to ensure farmers are kept in the dark and it'd make us look pretty stupid if all this came to light." Pardon the pun.

2. You don't have to pay upfront; you can rent and do a revenue share agreement with providers. A better option as the cost of solar technology is down 80% in 4 years, and declining 15% per year. Further, technology is coming out each year than will make the new stuff you buy obsolete so no point doing a 20 year agreement.

3. You can use batteries to store energy (e.g. Tesla) (for night as well as winter).

That also dispels the myth I heard that the lazy ****s in ESB will charge 250k per installation.

Complete BS as ESB don't want renewables as it means you're no longer paying the Energy co's and ESB electricity your bill. It also goes some way as to why is the electricity cost in Ireland the second highest in Europe, and 3.5bn owed by ESB in maintenance? Another fine ****ing hole that gob****es without any foresight in government and ESB got us into. Further, 95% of our energy is imported from the UK (at a cost + duty + profit), rather than using the resources we have; offshore gales, sea, solar and biomass, or, the $350bn of oil and gas that is Irish people's assets but sold off by FF in the 80's for 50 jobs, and again, recently given to oil companies when new reserves were found. That asset would make about 250,000 a year in income at current oil prices for each household (like Norway does/do, as it too was poor in the 60's before oil was struck), but no government is going to put in history books for a junior cert "we sold off your assets and each home is saddled with debt now instead of making a ****ing packet from that oil & gas.")

4. No one is looking and helping advise farmers on how to a) improve energy costs per cow (it varies by 100% across farmers) and or b) helping make money from the land (particularly .

5. New Machinery is coming out that is energy driven; Tractors and the humble car that is costing households 11k a year (petrol/diesel/), Electrovehicles are being used in the US (Tesla) that are energy independent (saving 4k a year on diesel/petrol) and on a rent/buy model with the latest model being changed out.

6. EU doesn't take from arable subsidies; they want to reduce oil dependency (from Middle East) and reduce Carbon footprint. Ireland is miles behind that Carbon Footprint reduction target and likely to face a fine of 220-240m a year starting in 2020 for not hitting targets; twice the water charges in amount but dumbo's in the Dail keeping that a bit hush hush. UK & Germany are so ahead they are exporting energy (green) and have 50% from renewables.

The lads are going to be doing 25 acres (arable), and installations on sheds.

Happy to help others as if we help farmers, we help the communities.

On a positive, how much land is needed to power a county of 100,000 people/25,000 homes? 50 acres. "Free energy".

Sorry about the rant, but fed up of Farming friend's being ripped off and time to make it central to communities again. All the stuff about tech and banks and foreign companies are important for a consumer-driven economy, but if we don't have a sustainable farming community, we're simply kidding ourselves. We box way above our weight for farming exports and a global leader in that; let's do the same for renewables to make the land not just sustainable, but very profitable for farming families.

JJayoo

Is it true that sheep can still graze amongst these solar panels?

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

Is it true that sheep can still graze amongst these solar panels?

Yeah, they're usually raised so that grazing is still possible.

JJayoo

Interesting, never thought solar was really a possibility in this country, thought the future was to have a number of smaller turbines spinning 24/7, some of the Japanese wind lenses ones nomnom.

I do think that the gov should introduce a scheme/grant which would allow schools to cover their roofs in solar panels. It would wipe out the schools power costs and the school could sell all the additional electricity back to the grid. Plus I'm sure some of the solar companies would offer a nice reduction to install it, lots of publicity/good will and stick a nice big sign outside the school for all to see with some nice environmentaly friendly slogan and the companies name.

robcass78

Yes they graze. Handy scratching posts. Other countries or in beehives too to drive up pollination/offset the decline in bees which is a f'ing distaster.

UK solar penetration is same as Ireland; NI are miles ahead as they've made the money and that's the move down south. Also banks giving loans out to solar farms/farmers as like I said above, not as if the sun won't shine next year / asset 'disappears.'

Am in sunny south east.

On IFA; did anyone contact James Murphy??

Have you looked at the tesla and solar city model of leasing?

robcass78

Schools are possible; look at what solar city are doing in the US.

I'm looking at schools and crèches for my kids place.

I'm also looking at them for the local GAA club as a way of bringing in money as that's 25k from the clubhouse; much less pain than fundraising in driving rain in December.

Tipp coco has the panels installed on all county buildings and AiB just installed them on their Dublin HQ.

JJayoo wrote: »

Interesting, never thought solar was really a possibility in this country, thought the future was to have a number of smaller turbines spinning 24/7, some of the Japanese wind lenses ones nomnom.

I do think that the gov should introduce a scheme/grant which would allow schools to cover their roofs in solar panels. It would wipe out the schools power costs and the school could sell all the additional electricity back to the grid. Plus I'm sure some of the solar companies would offer a nice reduction to install it, lots of publicity/good will and stick a nice big sign outside the school for all to see with some nice environmentaly friendly slogan and the companies name.

Alf Veedersane

Didn't Kingspan and ESB join forces to set up a joint venture whereby they take the capital cost and then the business pays back through the units of solar generated electricity used?

Must have been about a year ago I heard that

robcass78

Keep thinking community...


THe two biggest costs of the project are the installation /layout and financing (40%). Not the tech.

If those on benefits installed them and the credit union, or government, financed the cost (zero borrowing costs) it brings the cost down by 40% and create jobs; about 20,000 jobs but government is miles behind. Embarrassing for FF and FG as Ireland rank worst in Europe for renewables.

I

robcass78 wrote: »

Schools are possible; look at what solar city are doing in the US.

I'm looking at schools and crèches for my kids place.

I'm also looking at them for the local GAA club as a way of bringing in money as that's 25k from the clubhouse; much less pain than fundraising in driving rain in December.

Tipp coco has the panels installed on all county buildings and AiB just installed them on their Dublin HQ.

JJayoo

If the green party had any balls/brains this is the stuff they would be pushing.

And where are all the feccking digesters, energy from the sun is one thing but energy from cows holes is the future

Alf Veedersane

JJayoo wrote: »

If the green party had any balls/brains this is the stuff they would be pushing.

And where are all the feccking digesters, energy from the sun is one thing but energy from cows holes is the future

Tbf, SEAI do have the better energy communities scheme and there are some cool projects being done.

As for digesters, if the scale makes sense, the biogas (upgraded to biomethane) could be used in cars. Contributes to renewable transport energy and because it's biogenic carbon, it's not considered to have any CO2 emissions

Water John

The stocking rate for sheep under panels is about 50% of normal.
There are at this stage 425 applications to ESB for Solar Farm connections to distribution system, 38KV down.
Each of these is about 5MW equivalent to about 25 acres.
I think the price on each application would be about €27K.
Most don't risk this without knowing that capacity is available in the relevant substation.
An agreement option for land, more than likely has been signed, in most of these applications.
Thus 2,000Mw has been applied for.
Minister said announcement on FIT would be in 2017.

JJayoo

This is an interesting thread, make for good toilet reading.

robcass78

Water John wrote: »

The stocking rate for sheep under panels is about 50% of normal.
There are at this stage 425 applications to ESB for Solar Farm connections to distribution system, 38KV down.
Each of these is about 5MW equivalent to about 25 acres.
I think the price on each application would be about €27K.
Most don't risk this without knowing that capacity is available in the relevant substation.
An agreement option for land, more than likely has been signed, in most of these applications.
Thus 2,000Mw has been applied for.
Minister said announcement on FIT would be in 2017.

The question is how much profit is made per acre with sheep, vs solar?

The backlog is ESB and tarriffs; no pressure on government to do anything.

However, if every of the 300,000 farmers in Ireland (voters) said "fix it (as we want 1000-20k an acre or **** off out of government" you'd see the tarriff's fixed pretty damn quick.

Community wise it means more money in the economy, but less duty in government's pockets; but as every 1 euro spent generates 5 euro in the economy, they ought to be sensible...ought to be.

There is an IFA Seminar called Solar - A Real opportunity (can't post link as a newbie)

robcass78

JJayoo wrote: »

This is an interesting thread, make for good toilet reading.

Biofuel reading...nice.

quentingargan

There is this powerpoint of a presentation to IFA highlighting some of the risks

robcass78

Can't find benefits on IFA, but UK shows 5MW in 25 acres.

25 acres = 100,000 m2 of panels.

100,000 m2 generates 2.5kwH/m2/day, or 62m kwH. 250 days of sun a year.

The rate to consumer is 15c, or 9.3m euro a year, in electricity income. Or, 375k per acre.

The rate paid as tariff is 8c (let's assume Ireland get's screwed by the goverment as usual; as that's 100% lower than UK), so that 25 acres generates 5m a year in income. Or 200k for an acre.

Over 20 years = 100m income for 25 acres.

The cost of 100,000m2 is about 39 euro / m2, or 39m for 25 acres, or 156k for 1 acre.

Someone challenge my numbers please....

Water John

The build cost of the 25 acres is around €6/7M all in. This is €1.1/1.2M per Mw.

I haven't done capacity outputs etc on solar projects. I know they are on a lower margin than wind. I guess a gross return of €600,000 annually on the project.
The cost of the finance is the key.

embraer170

Have there been any developments recently on the FIT?

I have been approached by a solar company to put panels on my land. I wonder what is the FIT these are counting on getting?

Water John

No, is the short answer. If signing option for 2/3 years, insist a planning application is made within that time frame.

embraer170

Water John wrote: »

No, is the short answer. If signing option for 2/3 years, insist a planning application is made within that time frame.

I clearly need to do some more reading but how are the new solar and wind farms that are being built around the country feeding into the grid?

Water John

Wind Farms that are being built are those that qualified for Gate 3. That is 2003/4 applications, believe it or not.

TMK no solar farms, maybe a few, have connected yet. No FIT announced.
Something like 450 projects, usually of 5Mw size have applied to the Grid for connection offers. The vast majority are in the southern half of the country, because of higher sun irradiation.

So Cos have lease options with a lot of farmers. 450 x 25/30 acres = over 10,000 acres.

embraer170

Water John wrote: »

Wind Farms that are being built are those that qualified for Gate 3. That is 2003/4 applications, believe it or not.

TMK no solar farms, maybe a few, have connected yet. No FIT announced.
Something like 450 projects, usually of 5Mw size have applied to the Grid for connection offers. The vast majority are in the southern half of the country, because of higher sun irradiation.

So Cos have lease options with a lot of farmers. 450 x 25/30 acres = over 10,000 acres.

Thanks!

robcass78

Beenlost123 wrote: »

Youre amazing. Thank you so much for doing out the sums. I attempted it but you have laid it out more logically. Ill keep you informed if you wish about the outcome of this. We were supposed to meet last saturday but it fell through. Will keep this board updated for people in the future. It sounds too good to be true to be honest. I dont have any major details yet besides initial payment of what we would get per acre.

Did the solar cowboys come back to you?

tweek84

Out of interest what are the downsides of these solar farms?
Land being rezoned to commerical?? value of houses dropping in the area??
There is one applied for development near me

quentingargan

It is quite astonishing how, quietly, in the background, there have been a lot of applications. Individually, it seems they don't need any EIS, but collectively, they will have one hell of an impact. See map attached.

unkel

Jesus. 20MW here, 50MW there, all over the shop. Are these just applications, or are these producing? How much is total live MW solar PV in this country?

quentingargan

unkel wrote: »

Jesus. 20MW here, 50MW there, all over the shop. Are these just applications, or are these producing? How much is total live MW solar PV in this country?

All applications in various stages of development. While everyone else has been waiting for the announcement of a feed in tariff, these folks have been getting their projects shovel-ready.

robcass78

quentingargan wrote: »

All applications in various stages of development. While everyone else has been waiting for the announcement of a feed in tariff, these folks have been getting their projects shovel-ready.

4 GW in total, I believe. That's about 4bn of investment just waiting to be connected. In jobs terms, about 32,000 jobs. Or, the total of youth unemployment, nationally.

Clearly no rush to implement this then.

Great map!

tweek84

quentingargan wrote: »

All applications in various stages of development. While everyone else has been waiting for the announcement of a feed in tariff, these folks have been getting their projects shovel-ready.

Is there any of these projects in the installation phase at the moment?

tweek84

robcass78 wrote: »

4 GW in total, I believe. That's about 4bn of investment just waiting to be connected. In jobs terms, about 32,000 jobs. Or, the total of youth unemployment, nationally.

Clearly no rush to implement this then.

Great map!

This is probably going to come across as being a smart b##lix but genuinely interested to how it equates to 32,000 jobs, i didn't think there was that much to solar farm installations? On the electrical side it is small enough, i can't see the civils being much either.

quentingargan

Nothing started yet. Waiting for a feed in tariff. We will be paying this via a PSO levy, and I think it is a pity that this doesn't go towards industrial, agricultural and domestic rooftop so we can all participate and not just an Australian fund.

I also question the 32K jobs bit. There are specialist companies across Europe leaning on their shovels waiting for this to happen. Building a solar park takes a small crew a couple of months. Labour isn't a big share of the cost.