Road Map to lgbt equality?

Annasopra

In the Government formation talks it was indicated that Katherine Zappone has got some sort of commitment on a roadmap to lgbt equality. What do you think is needed in such a roadmap?

Leonard Hofstadter

In terms of what the Government can do, I would suggest the following:

- Further divesting of patronage of schools, so LGBT parents will be able to send their children to schools which won't conflict with their religious (non) beliefs
- Programmes in all schools (irrespective of ethos) to reduce the amount of homophobic and/or transphobic bullying for LGBT teens (in fairness all the parties made some sort of commitment on this one)
- A review of MSMs donating blood
- Repealing the eight amendment, though that's obviously not just an LGBT issue

I don't really know what else needs to be done from a legal point of view, fortunately Ireland is a much more tolerant and progressive place than many parts of the world.

The only other thing would be what are the attitudes of the Gardaí towards homophobic/transphobic bullying and discrimination? I do know a few gay lads in the force, so I'd like to think that an LGBT person could safely go to the gardaí about homophobic/transphobic attacks and it will be taken seriously. Rules are no good unless they're enforced and seen to be enforced.

Ten of Swords

captainspeed wrote: »

A review of MSMs donating blood

This is already happening, a conference was held last week and the results will be submitted to the department of health in June, it is looking likely that the ban will be lifted and replaced with a 1 year deferral period.

Linky Un


Get rid of section 37.1 plain and simple. It is the last example of legalized LGBT discrimination as far as I am aware. The lame, half assed attempt that Fine Gael made at 'softening' the provisions of this law fooled absolutely no-one, just get rid of the damn thing altogether.

Linky Deux

Leonard Hofstadter

Ten of Swords wrote: »

This is already happening, a conference was held last week and the results will be submitted to the department of health in June, it is looking likely that the ban will be lifted and replaced with a 1 year deferral period.

Linky Un


Get rid of section 37.1 plain and simple. It is the last example of legalized LGBT discrimination as far as I am aware. The lame, half assed attempt that Fine Gael made at 'softening' the provisions of this law fooled absolutely no-one, just get rid of the damn thing altogether.

Linky Deux

Good to know that MSM review is still happening, it was mentioned the time Leo came out last but I haven't heard anything since then, which was why I mentioned it.

As for Section 37, my understanding was they did want to get rid of it but they realised that it required a referendum, so the law was changed as much as it could be without forcing a referendum on the matter.

Hopefully Ms Zappone will be the next Education Minister and we'll see more change in that area:).

12Phase

The religious schools and hospitals issue is much broader than LGBT. It hits a lot of people, especially those who aren't religious.

My niece is hitting this now at age 1 as her non religious parents look for a school. Given that one of them is not Irish and considers herself culturally atheist and it's actually coming across to them as more like blatant racism/xenophobia.

Irish people don't really comprehend how it feels to someone unfamiliar with the oddities of this place. It's enough to have them considering emigration though.

They've also had a few random types laying on the "ah would you not baptise her? It's cruelty to make her feel different. She'll miss out on her Communion when all the other little girls have their nice dresses..."

All coming from middle aged to 60 something busybody women and in Dublin not rural.

Is entirely about using state resources to socially engineer 'Holy Catholic Ireland' and we all know that but nobody will change anything.

Leonard Hofstadter

12Phase wrote: »

The religious schools and hospitals issue is much broader than LGBT. It hits a lot of people, especially those who aren't religious.

My niece is hitting this now at age 1 as her non religious parents look for a school. Given that one of them is not Irish and considers herself culturally atheist and it's actually coming across to them as more like blatant racism/xenophobia.

Irish people don't really comprehend how it feels to someone unfamiliar with the oddities of this place. It's enough to have them considering emigration though.

They've also had a few random types laying on the "ah would you not baptise her? It's cruelty to make her feel different. She'll miss out on her Communion when all the other little girls have their nice dresses..."

All coming from middle aged to 60 something busybody women and in Dublin not rural.

Is entirely about using state resources to socially engineer 'Holy Catholic Ireland' and we all know that but nobody will change anything.

That's exactly why divesting of patronage is so important. It's just stupid baptising kids so they can get into a school. It's even more stupid only going to church for Communion and Confirmation. If you believe in it, fine, I'm a firm believer in each to their own. But pick and mix Catholicism like this doesn't help anyone. If you want to raise your kids as Catholics, at least do it properly and bring them to mass every Sunday etc.

I just think it's disrespectful towards priests and people who actually do believe in it to go around parading kids twice in their lifetimes without ever intending to bring them up in it. I think it's also very disrespectful towards parents who don't want to bring their kids up believing in it and are at least principled enough to stick to their (non) beliefs by not partaking in something they don't believe in, as it makes it harder to justify Educate Together schools when all the parents play along with baptising the kids and only bringing them to Church on state occasions.

Ten of Swords

captainspeed wrote: »

The only other thing would be what are the attitudes of the Gardaí towards homophobic/transphobic bullying and discrimination? I do know a few gay lads in the force, so I'd like to think that an LGBT person could safely go to the gardaí about homophobic/transphobic attacks and it will be taken seriously. Rules are no good unless they're enforced and seen to be enforced.

Regardless of whatever one thinks of the Gardai in general they are pretty good at this. Maybe it differs slightly from region to region but I think it's reasonable to assume any complaint to them is taken seriously. There are also LGBT liaison officers in every garda district so speaking to one of these is an option too.

12Phase

captainspeed wrote: »

That's exactly why divesting of patronage is so important. It's just stupid baptising kids so they can get into a school. It's even more stupid only going to church for Communion and Confirmation. If you believe in it, fine, I'm a firm believer in each to their own. But pick and mix Catholicism like this doesn't help anyone. If you want to raise your kids as Catholics, at least do it properly and bring them to mass every Sunday etc.

I just think it's disrespectful towards priests and people who actually do believe in it to go around parading kids twice in their lifetimes without ever intending to bring them up in it. I think it's also very disrespectful towards parents who don't want to bring their kids up believing in it and are at least principled enough to stick to their (non) beliefs by not partaking in something they don't believe in, as it makes it harder to justify Educate Together schools when all the parents play along with baptising the kids and only bringing them to Church on state occasions.

Unfortunately, there's a large cohort of Irish people who are a basically a bit like Hyacinth Bucket. It's all about "Keeping Up Appearances."

As annoying and stagey as that show was, Patricia Routledge is one of those character actresses who can channel a particular "type" and really being a particular social trait to life.

The attendance at communions, the confirmations, the school snobbery, the darkness, the hypocrisy... It's as much an aspect of holier than thou middle class Ireland as is England.

It's all about making sure Sheridan has the correct photos for the mantelpiece.

L1011

A non-fudged full fix of the employment equality act - deletion of the exemptions rather than changing them.

Anything else that I think would help LGBT acceptance could really be bundled under a full secularisation programme really.

12Phase

You can't really have a situation where the employment or any other legislation allows people to be homophobic in certain circumstances anymore than allowing them to be a bit racist in certain circumstances.

Either you have rights or you don't. It's ludicrous to have human rights and then have a list of exceptions where they don't apply.

LGBT people just 'are'. It's not like it's membership of a particular community, religious group or even nationality. It's actually an intrinsic feature of the person that a % of the human population have.