Malahide tournament feedback

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

The link for the live boards is http://www.malahidechessclub.ie/millenium/live/tfd.htm

Since you are very particular in whether things are singular or plural

cdeb wrote: »

Who are our titled players (plural)?

You said Live board(s). I only see ONE live board, are we expecting more than one ?

Strange competition, Players who don't make the rating bands have their rating artificially inflated to meet the target!, and if an unqualified player creates an odd number in a section, he gets a FULL point bye which in a tough field is a great help in obtaining that grading prize. It's the same venue as final round of LCU league, tables of various sizes, last I was there, I got a small table which had no room for my score sheet. The only place I saw where they served food nearby was a tiny place in the bowling place and very slow to serve their junk food. This barred pairing based on club affiliation up to round 3 is also Strange and what is it's purpose ? !.Organisers are nice and friendly and year after year keep using the word "Fisher" instead of "Fischer" when talking about time control on their event website !.

sinbad68

What happened to the result of second round ?! ( result boxes left blank !)

In the first round, in top section, 3 players got full point bye and 2 players got half point bye !, how did that happen , weren't the late entrants supposed to be paired against each other?, if they took a bye in advance, why a full point ?!.

Draws are posted on Event site, boards.ie and also sent by texts !, isn't that a bit of an overkill?.

Draw pairing format looks cumbersome, The format used by some tournaments like Ennis congress ( link below) looks much better and efficient which also gives TPR , also would be good if couple of weeks in advance an early entry list was posted and regularly updated. I still got a small table but thankfully distance away from the noisy swinging hall door.

http://www.icu.ie/sm/ennis_open/

sinbad68

Yes, The organisers took the time and effort to post pairings & round results on two different sites ( unnecessary )and text players after each round to tell them who their next round opponent s are , but sadly (at time of this post) , per usual did a half-arsed job by Not giving us a final table and who prize winners were !, Unfortunately they are not alone and this happens every year in several tournaments when final round or table reporting is either delayed or not posted at all ! .

As for rating the competition

oragnisers: Nice & friendly but not useful

Class: okayish

Transport: Car owners = easy , No car = depends where you were coming from

Parking : Excellent

Lights: Adequate

Temperature: bare Pass, It was a bit too warm at times

Chess material ( boards, set, clocks): very good


Furniture: tables too small , chairs could have been better

Food: Not great, only one food outlet beside the venue ( in bowling alley ) which many players were unaware of , Organisers should have informed players of it's presence.

Noise : BAD, BAD, BAD. The swinging doors were making a lot of noise the entire tournament, if door was pushed far enough inwards into the room , it would get stuck and remain wide open without even needing a door stop, as there was little noise or cold air coming from the corridor , this was Fine but FOOLS kept forcing it to close. Sinbad made 17 trips to the door to keep it open, but there was only one Sinbad vs too many fools. I did not bring it to organisers attention but one of them made an announcement mid tournament( I doubt if more than half of players heard him ), asking players to close door gently ( for some players he might as well be speaking to a brick wall).
According to Fide rules ,If an electronic device in your pocket or bag makes a single beep , you could lose your game for disturbing your opponent, but if a noisy door continuously disturbs a large number of players for the entire tournament, for arbiters, There is No problem !, Had organisers used a single door stop which I doubt players would have moved, there would have been NO door noise problem.

whoissinbad68

Firstly, sinbad68, have you ever run a weekend tournament?

Secondly, why didn't you stay around until the end and you would have found out the results which were on the scoreboards as they came in?
We had a lot of things to do at the end of a tournament to tidy up and leave the premises and as a result publishing the results were the last thing on our mind, they will be published later this week (if we can bother our 'half-arse' about it!)

I'll take your point on the noise of the door but we couldn't have kept it open as any noise from outside would have been worse. I think the announcement to take care coming in and out made a bit of a difference.

Finally, can you elaborate on your comment about us being 'not useful'? I assume you are talking about us but, as you seem to be a stickler for correct spelling, I can't be sure - maybe you could let me know what an 'oragniser' is?

sinbad68

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

Firstly, sinbad68, have you ever run a weekend tournament?

No, but if you would like, I can help you run a better tournament next year, pm me early next year . If Sinbad was an organiser, he would do his best to reduce disturbance to players in the venue and he would also ask players for feedback during and at the end of the tournament to improve things, I find it shocking :eek: that I have attended so many tournaments and have never been asked or overheard anyone been asked for feedback on a tournament by an organiser/arbiter.

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

Secondly, why didn't you stay around until the end and you would have found out the results which were on the scoreboards as they came in?

You wanted me to stay around so my ears continue to suffer from the door's noise pollution ?!.

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

We had a lot of things to do at the end of a tournament to tidy up and leave the premises and as a result publishing the results were the last thing on our mind,

There were at least 3 people, one person could have updated the results on line while other 2 tidied up,OR when you got home you could have updated results then, when it came to posting earlier pairings & round results online , it only took minutes after the last games were finished.

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

they will be published later this week (if we can bother our 'half-arse' about it!)

The tables are updated and rated by our great rating officer, so you don't have to bother your Full-arse at all !, Many players and non players would like to know what final table and standings are and major delay just shows disconnect and lack of care .

http://ratings.icu.ie/

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

I'll take your point on the noise of the door but we couldn't have kept it open as any noise from outside would have been worse.

Nonsense ! Not True !, The door was loud and noisy no matter where in the room and created sound waves in all frequencies, but if you were in the back half of the room , no way you could hear conversation in the corridor which was on a much lower decibel level even when the door was open,(which was at times).

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

I think the announcement to take care coming in and out made a bit of a difference.

True !, It did to some degree, the funny thing is even though he was announcing it loudly IN the room many struggled to hear him, guess what would have happened if he was in the corridor.

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

Finally, can you elaborate on your comment about us being 'not useful'? I assume you are talking about us but,

When orgnaisers could but did not stop repetitive disturbing noise in the venue, then using the term "Not useful" which conveys similar meaning as " Not effective" is appropriate, I did Not use the word " useless".

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

as you seem to be a stickler for correct spelling, I can't be sure - maybe you could let me know what an 'oragniser' is?

Obviously this is response to me pointing out " Fischer" gets spelled " fisher" on event site year after year. I was just showing that If letters in the word " organiser" are a fraction as disorganised as result reporting last weekend then you get " oragniser" which makes No sense!.

I also want to say that I appreciate the tournament and the effort and time organisers gave, BUT personally speaking, The Noise ruined the competition for me and found it hard to focus during my games.

Tuisceanch

The final standings for this year's Millenium tournament are now available. I am the web master for the Malahide website and was responsible for uploading the draw. I was also playing in the tournament and so it was a bit of hassle. I am now designing a more efficient method for doing it next year but overall it was pretty efficient and timely anyway. I would like to point out to you that all this work by myself and the organisers is done on a voluntary basis and you might want to keep that in mind. When it comes to feedback and issues during the tournament I do not understand why you would not approach people in person rather than resorting to social media. I have met you in the past and thought you were a reasonable person but this behaviour is not very becoming.

whoissinbad68

sinbad68 wrote: »

No, but if you would like, I can help you run a better tournament next year, pm me early next year . If Sinbad was an organiser, he would do his best to reduce disturbance to players in the venue and he would also ask players for feedback during and at the end of the tournament to improve things, I find it shocking :eek: that I have attended so many tournaments and have never been asked or overheard anyone been asked for feedback on a tournament by an organiser/arbiter.

sinbad68 wrote: »

There were at least 3 people, one person could have updated the results on line while other 2 tidied up,OR when you got home you could have updated results then, when it came to posting earlier pairings & round results online , it only took minutes after the last games were finished.

sinbad68 wrote: »

The tables are updated and rated by our great rating officer, so you don't have to bother your Full-arse at all !, Many players and non players would like to know what final table and standings are and major delay just shows disconnect and lack of care .

Thanks for the offer but I think we're doing OK! We've been doing this gig for 16 years now so we're pretty experienced.
Your observation on what we could have done shows a lack of appreciation of what has to be done by the controllers in the run up to, during and after the tournament. I appreciate how tired players can be after a weekend tournament as I have played many but it does not compare to how tired you are after controlling a weekend tournament.
So if final results are not posted online for a couple of days, for the benefit of those who decided to leave early, I think most controllers would be forgiven (clearly not by you though!).
Actually, your use of terms 'lack of care' and 'not useful' towards us are quite galling given how much work we put into it. I appreciate your final comment but if that is how you really feel why did you start with these comments in the first place?
Your major problem seems to have come from the door noise but we had only ONE comment from a player on the door noise, hence the announcement. You did not come anywhere near us about this issue - instead you headed here to vent your frustrations. Do you not think you should have talked to us first?

ComDubh

Malahide is a great tournament. Keep it up! Some posters here are like bagpipe drones, a sort of negative background sound that you needn't pay attention to. It is very irritating when you put in the enormous amount of work that is required to run an event, and all you hear back is nit picking.

whoissinbad68

Cheers, ComDubh. We intend to!! Thanks for the appreciation of our efforts.

reunion

whoissinbad68 wrote: »

Your observation on what we could have done shows a lack of appreciation of what has to be done by the controllers in the run up to, during and after the tournament.

And a lack of understanding!


I've only heard positive things from Malahide and the text of who you are playing seems like an amazing idea (email might be cheaper and easier to automate in case you had 1 poor soul texting everyone!)

ComDubh wrote: »

Malahide is a great tournament. Keep it up! Some posters here are like bagpipe drones, a sort of negative background sound that you needn't pay attention to.

I would have said some posters are like a noisy door. Better without it, but something normal people can ignore.

cdeb

The draw by text, by the way, is an automated Excel programme which we're hoping to roll out across other tournaments too. You have to enter players' names and phone numbers obviously. Then you copy and paste the draw in, click a button, and the texts get sent out.

There's no cost as the person who wrote the back end is a chess player (also with St Benildus), and his company covers the cost of texts as they're sending them.

I wrote the front end (the macro button and formula generating the text) and have the "software", so if any other tournaments want to use it, drop me a line. All you need is internet and Excel (I wrote it on Excel 2003 - so doesn't even need to be a newer version).

It got great reviews at the Irish Juniors as well, when it was first used. It helps prep, reduces the risk of you getting the time of the next round wrong and being late, and avoids having to keep refreshing the tournament page to see if the draw's up.

On Malahide, it was a good tournament as usual. Thought the guys could have done with a microphone for the announcements; I don't know if one's available. The door was a bit annoying, but I asked the controllers to make an announcement about it, which they did, and the noise reduced. Seems the sensible way to do things, rather than not mentioning it to anyone and then whining online.

Tuisceanch

sinbad68 wrote: »

Draw pairing format looks cumbersome, The format used by some tournaments like Ennis congress ( link below) looks much better and efficient which also gives TPR , also would be good if couple of weeks in advance an early entry list was posted and regularly updated.

http://www.icu.ie/sm/ennis_open/

Well as I welcome feedback regarding the web design I would like to elicit more information from you. However,firstly,the format used by Ennis is generated by Swiss Master software. I also like this format but unfortunately we are using Swiss perfect and there is no real justification to incur a cost for the sake of non-essential enhancements. Although it is not beyond my wit to emulate that design using the base file generated by Swiss perfect and through the upload function translating it into tabular format it is a lot of effort for no real gain.Also good design dictates a common look and feel across the whole application and the use of drop downs with radio buttons is the design chosen for displaying files using search criteria. I'm not altogether sure how the format would be described as cumbersome as within this context I would take that to mean slow or complicated and therefore inefficient and how would that apply to the format of the display? The format is plain as it it uses <pre> tags which are styled using the standard bootstrap configuration. (Bootstrap was used to provide a responsive design.) I take it by using the word cumbersome you were referring to the use of the form controls not being easy to use on a mobile device and the necessity to scroll to display information? If so,I would like to hear more from you on the subject as this is something I would like to address. If you also find the performance of the site to be so slow as to be unusable then again I would welcome your feedback. Performance was a key criteria of the design which is why this is a SPA (single page application) utilizing AJAX. I haven't found it to be particularly slow during my admittedly limited testing but as you can imagine designing,coding and administrating a new website in a short period is prone to some oversights and bugs.

Finally,I take it that when you started this thread you were feeling abit cranky but leaving that aside I sincerely welcome your constructive feedback.I am considering adding a feedback feature to the site. With regards to displaying a list of entrants,this was discussed but given that a substantial number of people (over 50%) leave their entry until the last minute it is not always practical and also given that the organizers have alot of more practical considerations in the days leading up to the first round, they are not so open to the cosmetic requirements of me,the web master. There is also the fact that you would have to merge the data from both online and manual sources which is indeed cumbersome. We have talked about incorporating the ICU database with Paypal and storing the entrants on a database for display. The manual entries could then be uploaded and the merged with the database. Ah sure maybe next year god willing and I don't have to devote more time to earning a buck rather than catering to ingrates for free.

sinbad68

cdeb wrote: »

On Malahide, it was a good tournament as usual. Thought the guys could have done with a microphone for the announcements; I don't know if one's available. The door was a bit annoying, but I asked the controllers to make an announcement about it, which they did, and the noise reduced. Seems the sensible way to do things, rather than not mentioning it to anyone and then whining online.

While Sinbad was under attack from all corners, Your conscience took it's time to feel guilty enough to come forward ( in my defence )and admit that you also found the noisy door disturbing,.... enough to ask an arbiter to make an announcement, requesting people to close the door gently, Yes some people took notice but majority didn't (either could'nt hear or couldn't care) specially children, but this was an inadequate measure and using a door stop would have solved the problem. Your comment ( needing a microphone) also proves my point that it was hard to hear announcer even though he was virtually in the middle of room and speaking loudly

---

> if any one talking in corridor vs noisy door .

Arbiters whether paid or voluntary have taken up the task to help ensure a tournament runs in the best possible manner, they have eyes and ears like everyone else and one hopes they have common sense as well, disturbing noise was obvious and they should have taken measure without waiting for a complaint. Lucena who posts in the thread ( smack my bishop) said once that he is an arbiter and asked us here, what should he do if a phone rings during a tournament and no one complains?! ( debating whether to let the phone keep ringing or take action !!).

Noise and inappropriate room temperature ( too cold or too warm ) are often ignored by organisers/arbiters as they are usually not the ones playing, don't need to concentrate so noise doesn't have much impact and in case of temperature ( usually too cold) as they are usually moving around, don't feels the cold vs a player who is immobile most of the time.

As why Sinbad didn't complain, one of the arbiters announced that he would like to keep the door closed and in fact couple of times when Sinbad left the door open , he headed for the door and closed it !.Obviously the arbiter had a different opinion, Sinbad could have started a major argument but Not in the mood.

One more thing, I thought it was Absurd that in the senior section, for the initial draw which was posted on 28th of April they used Fide April rating list and on the day of competition they used Fide's month of May listing which had only come out few hours earlier for the benefit of those in pacific ocean.Yes a competition starting in April used month of May rating list for draw/bye purposes for it's later rounds!( back to the future!).

cdeb

While I agree with you on the door, I don't agree with most of your comments - lighting, heat, tables, etc, etc.

I also wanted to show you how it's possible to provide feedback without sounding like a complete whinebag - simply by approaching people and talking to them rather than going off an an internet rant.

You have no excuse whatsoever for not saying anything directly to the controllers over the weekend.

Tuisceanch

You titled the thread feedback. You provided your critique and when asked to elaborate on certain issues or address the question why you could not have raised your issues regarding the noise levels in person you chose to ignore. I suggest that you have a scout around and find out how much the salubrious venues which you crave charge for a weekend and explore the practicalities of that whilst also ensuring a generous prize fund. I say that having no hand in the organization but mindful of the hurdles they are required to negotiate in order to host a well attended tournament. It is easy to criticize from an ivory tower in the deluded belief that you could do better but the only acid test of that assertion is to run your own tournament and then perhaps yours will become the litmus test to which all others aspire. We can only wait in hope.

cdeb

Tuisceanch wrote: »

I suggest that you have a scout around and find out how much the salubrious venues which you crave charge for a weekend and explore the practicalities of that whilst also ensuring a generous prize fund.

I presume this means no return to the Hilton in the foreseeable future?

Was always a nice venue - but I can imagine it costs a bit more!

Tuisceanch

cdeb wrote: »

I presume this means no return to the Hilton in the foreseeable future?

Was always a nice venue - but I can imagine it costs a bit more!

Oh I wouldn't be in a position to comment on the future plans of the organizers but in general I'm aware that with the upturn in business for Hotels in the last couple of years there has being a corresponding increase in prices which makes them prohibitive when operating a tight budget. I agree it was a nice venue but I believe it also caused some operational problems which the ALSAA venue addresses.

sinbad68

Tuisceanch wrote: »

You titled the thread feedback.

WRONG !, I did NOT!.Neo-Ninja did.

Tuisceanch wrote: »

You provided your critique and when asked to elaborate on certain issues or address the question why you could not have raised your issues regarding the noise levels in person you chose to ignore.

WRONG !, Did you NOT read my earlier comment ?, stating that an arbiter announced that he wanted the door to remain closed and at least on two occasions headed for the door and closed it immediately after I forced it open.

Tuisceanch wrote: »

I suggest that you have a scout around and find out how much the salubrious venues which you crave charge for a weekend and explore the practicalities of that whilst also ensuring a generous prize fund.

WRONG!, If you had kept up with my comments in the past, you would have known, I prefer events held in schools/ colleges where any fees go to instead of into the pockets of hotel owning fat cats.

Great!, I paid entry fee, my ears/brain suffered for 3 days and I make a valid criticism and instead of " sorry to hear about your experience" or any form of apology and/or " we'll fix the problem for next time" I get attacked!, unbelievable!.

The good news is that hopefully because of the posts here, there is a greater awareness among organisers/ arbiters about noise pollution during tournaments.Once again Sinbad has put himself in the line of fire for the greater good of chess community. Bored with this thread now.

P.S: I would like to publicly thank Gonzaga organisers for the effort they made in reducing door noise in the last Gonzaga classic.

Tuisceanch

sinbad68 wrote: »

WRONG !, I did NOT!.Neo-Ninja did.

WRONG !, Did you NOT read my earlier comment ?, stating that an arbiter announced that he wanted the door to remain closed and at least on two occasions headed for the door and closed it immediately after I forced it open.

WRONG!, If you had kept up with my comments in the past, you would have known, I prefer events held in schools/ colleges where any fees go to instead of into the pockets of hotel owning fat cats.

Great!, I paid entry fee, my ears/brain suffered for 3 days and I make a valid criticism and instead of " sorry to hear about your experience" or any form of apology and/or " we'll fix the problem for next time" I get attacked!, unbelievable!.

The good news is that hopefully because of the posts here, there is a greater awareness among organisers/ arbiters about noise pollution during tournaments.Once again Sinbad has put himself in the line of fire for the greater good of chess community. Bored with this thread now.

P.S: I would like to publicly thank Gonzaga organisers for the effort they made in reducing door noise in the last Gonzaga classic.

I didn't make any reference to the door except to wonder why you didn't bring it to the organizers attention in person. What I did ask was for you to elaborate on how you found the format of the draw online cumbersome. Let's not forget that the noise levels were not your only complaint but rather you were swinging in all directions. I thought maybe when you had calmed down you might have something constructive to say because as you pointed out yourself you feel exasperated that you are never asked for your feedback. The organizers expressed sympathy regarding your complaint about noise levels so again I don't know why you say otherwise. Your stance seems to be that of the victim when in fact you have been the one insulting the efforts of others. Strange behaviour indeed.

BTW Deliberately leaving the door open in contravention of the wishes of the organizers is hardly an achievement that will be glorified in the future in the annals of Irish chess but I presume you were saying that tongue in cheek. It's also amusing that your mooted solution was only to facilitate yourself and had no consideration for the people at the front of the room who might not be in agreement with your prognosis that the noise from the corridor would not inconvenience them. So all in all it seems your actions were a contributory factor to the problem. How ironic!

FYI The reason as a non-organizer that I tried to make you aware of the practical issues that they have to deal with was to try and educate you to make better and more informed comments in the future without antagonizing all and sundry. I'm not sure it was very effective but you're welcome anyway.

sinbad68

Tuisceanch wrote: »

FYI The reason as a non-organizer that I tried to make you aware of the practical issues that they have to deal with was to try and educate you to make better and more informed comments in the future without antagonizing all and sundry. I'm not sure it was very effective but you're welcome anyway.

Since you have said " you're welcome", then I will respond by saying " Thank you" for your comment above which has brought a smile to my face and has put me in a good humor for the rest of the day .

L1m1tless

This has run its course *closed*