How to control the Nest?

The Rook

Hi there

I (very recently) switched over to Electric Ireland and just last Thursday we had an installer come out to put in the 3rd Generation Nest to our house. The heating setup is a gas boiler with a (previously) analogue dial that you could control the time that the heating came on. Immersion etc is separate.

Since we’ve had it installed we’ve had issues with the heating coming on at random times throughout the night & day (3am heating came on randomly) 
We’ve found that if we set the house base temperature to 16 degrees, and scheduled Nest to kick in at 1am to 19 degrees then the base temperature is reset to 19 degrees. 
Each day since we’ve got it the heating has been on for over 6 hours a day, whereas previously it would have been a maximum of three (and that’s a generous estimate). 

Can anyone explain to me how best to set up the Nest so that we can just control the time that the heating comes on and what temperature it comes on to. 


I’m not really (after less than a week) interested in having the Nest learn my comings and goings in the house, I don’t want it to sense when I’m away, I just want the Nest to stick to my schedule of having it come on at the time I specify, to get to the temperature I specify and not have a mind of its own (unless anyone can come up with a pain-free way of this happening!) 

Any help greatly appreciated.

The Rook

kennethsmyth

Hi there, I have two nests one for upstairs and the other downstairs.  I originally like yourself let it do its thing and it learns by you turning up  and down the nest.  I eventually didnt like it changing my schedule as I prefer to control like yourself the amount of time it was on.

If you think of it like this, a normal thermostat only works while the programmer has the system on (timed) where as the nest ignores the timer (either bypasses or programmer is removed) and puts on and off the heating depending on your temperature set for that period of the day.

Essentially the nest trys to make your house comfortable all the time not just during a timed period (like your old system).  This can actually lead to your system being on longer rather than shorter if it is cold outside and say you are trying to keep it at 18c.

To counteract the above i turned off learning, turned off time to temp (it learns how long it takes to heat up your house to the temp you want and starts the heating early to get to that temp in time).  Set your nest to be at your high temp 18c/20c for whatever time you want the heating to start at and then set your low temp say 14c for the time you want your heating to come off at.  Now you would need to set it for say the morning and evening and some people would say this ruins the whole idea of nest - i can safely say it doesnt - I would keep the auto away live and also setup geo location with all family mobiles - this will turn the heating to the low default temp when no one is in the house - this works well and will save money - you can always turn on heating in advance of coming home.

One last thing, presently you can only put in temperatures once every hour in the schedule - this means heating will be on at least an hour or if temp is reached before that.  I wish they made this 30mins.

Hope this is of help, I had researched hive etc... and nest is still the best at present (hive is more like programmer and thermo - but has a nice boost button!), the only system that could be possibly better is Ecobee 3 but this is only available in America.

Electric Ireland: Una

Hi The Rook,

Thank you for choosing Electric Ireland. Thanks kennethsmyth also for your detailed, helpful post.

Sorry to read of the issues you have been experiencing with the Nest's functionality, The Rook - if you private message us your name and telephone number, we will follow up for you with the relevant department.

We would suggest contacting Nest Ireland in the meantime also, if you wish.

Kind regards,
Una

________

The Rook

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi The Rook,

Thank you for choosing Electric Ireland. Thanks kennethsmyth also for your detailed, helpful post.

Sorry to read of the issues you have been experiencing with the Nest's functionality, The Rook - if you private message us your name and telephone number, we will follow up for you with the relevant department.

We would suggest contacting Nest Ireland in the meantime also, if you wish.

Kind regards,
Una

________

PM sent Una, thanks very much !

toby2111

kennethsmyth wrote: »

To counteract the above i turned off learning, turned off time to temp (it learns how long it takes to heat up your house to the temp you want and starts the heating early to get to that temp in time).

How do you turn off Time to Temp?Theres no off option in the Nest app.Currently my Nest is saying my room is 18.5,I just turned up heat to 19 and its saying its gonna take "2+ hours" to hit 19........thats a bit crazy. Granted,I've only had it since Tuesday so its probably still learning but still it shouldn't be that way off!!

kennethsmyth

toby2111 wrote: »

How do you turn off Time to Temp?Theres no off option in the Nest app.Currently my Nest is saying my room is 18.5,I just turned up heat to 19 and its saying its gonna take "2+ hours" to hit 19........thats a bit crazy. Granted,I've only had it since Tuesday so its probably still learning but still it shouldn't be that way off!!

Don't worry about the actual time to temp, it will learn that over time but you may want to turn off a thing called true radiant under the nest sense settings, this uses the learnings of the time to temp to start the heating earlier than scheduled so as to reach target temp by the time you set. Time to temp is the learning, true radiant the setting.

My time to temp is silly in my bedroom as the radiator is too small so the nest would switch on too early so I turned the true radiant. The nest us essentially correct but since it would take too long it's time to temp would be inaccurate

toby2111

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Don't worry about the actual time to temp, it will learn that over time but you may want to turn off a thing called true radiant under the nest sense settings, this uses the learnings of the time to temp to start the heating earlier than scheduled so as to reach target temp by the time you set.  Time to temp is the learning, true radiant the setting.

My time to temp is silly in my bedroom as the radiator is too small so the nest would switch on too early so I turned the true radiant.  The nest us essentially correct but since it would take too long it's time to temp would be inaccurate

OK,I've turned off that True Radiant setting,thanks.
I actually turned my heating to 19 over an hour ago.Temp still reads 18.5 and says it'll hit 19 in 1 and half hours!!But room is warmer than an hour ago so surely the Nest should be reading more than 18.5 that its been stuck on?

kennethsmyth

toby2111 wrote: »

OK,I've turned off that True Radiant setting,thanks.
I actually turned my heating to 19 over an hour ago.Temp still reads 18.5 and says it'll hit 19 in 1 and half hours!!But room is warmer than an hour ago so surely the Nest should be reading more than 18.5 that its been stuck on?

Depends on where you placed the thermostat I couldn't fine the best place originally so I got the stand so I could move it about - best place is away from draughts and radiators - the thermostat is quiet sensitive and I have found it accurate- if you even hold it too long it can rise it's temp

toby2111

Yeh,we have it on the stand and left it on top of the Sky box yesterday. Heat from Sky box actually increased the reading by about 3 or 4 degrees!We now have it in a corner but as you said that may be draughty.
So now(with True Radiant off) if I set heating for 7am at 19 degress,it will now kick in at 7am? And not a few hours before to build up to 19 degress at 7am?
I'm used to timed heating controls not temperature controlls so it takes a bit of adjusting!!

HeidiHeidi

toby2111 wrote: »

Yeh,we have it on the stand and left it on top of the Sky box yesterday. Heat from Sky box actually increased the reading by about 3 or 4 degrees!We have it in a corner but as you said that may be draughty.
So now(with True Radiant off) if I set heating for 7am at 19 degress,it will now kick in at 7am? And not a few hours before to build up to 19 degress at 7am. I'm used to timed heating controls not temperature controlls so it takes a bit of adjusting!!

Hallelujah! (If this is right!)

This is exactly what I've been struggling with..... I just want rads on for 10 mins before I get up for a very early morning, but when I set the temperature for say 18 degrees at 6am, the heating was coming on at 4! If that radiant temperature setting was the key, then I owe you all a pint!!

I have the thermostat in an alcove beside the fireplace it's actually behind the line of the fire, so shouldn't be affected too badly by the heat from there - but I've just learned what temperature in that alcove relates to me being comfortable on the sofa across the room. Putting it on or near something that will change temperature - like the Sky box - probably won't work!

Overall, for the remote controlability, the nest has been an absolute gift. But it's a total headwrecker moving from simple clock timing to running the heating on temperature/thermostat.

kennethsmyth

toby2111 wrote: »

Yeh,we have it on the stand and left it on top of the Sky box yesterday. Heat from Sky box actually increased the reading by about 3 or 4 degrees!We now have it in a corner but as you said that may be draughty.
So now(with True Radiant off) if I set heating for 7am at 19 degress,it will now kick in at 7am? And not a few hours before to build up to 19 degress at 7am?
I'm used to timed heating controls not temperature controlls so it takes a bit of adjusting!!

Correct Toby, true radiant off if you want exact timing, if you have good insulation and reasonably quick heating turn it on - it is a good idea but doesn't suit all houses

toby2111

Yeh,dont think True Radiant suits our old bungalow. I'll give it a go tonight so.

kennethsmyth

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Hallelujah! (If this is right!)

This is exactly what I've been struggling with..... I just want rads on for 10 mins before I get up for a very early morning, but when I set the temperature for say 18 degrees at 6am, the heating was coming on at 4! If that radiant temperature setting was the key, then I owe you all a pint!!

I have the thermostat in an alcove beside the fireplace it's actually behind the line of the fire, so shouldn't be affected too badly by the heat from there - but I've just learned what temperature in that alcove relates to me being comfortable on the sofa across the room. Putting it on or near something that will change temperature - like the Sky box - probably won't work!

Overall, for the remote controlability, the nest has been an absolute gift. But it's a total headwrecker moving from simple clock timing to running the heating on temperature/thermostat.

It's only a head wrecker because we try to control it when if fact the idea is just turn up and down as needed and it learns, however I think all of us find it hard to let go so we do the above.

I would advise you put the nest in an area close to where you sit or mainly stay - not an alcove and to even out the heat of room maybe on opposite side to radiator. Don't put in a hallway away from rooms, never works well, looks cool for visitors but doesn't work well.

In the ideal house you should be able to use all features, geo location by phone, auto away, radiant heat and learning. If all good you will actually start to not touch thermostat- it does it for you.

Ps turn off learning if you want only the schedule you setup otherwise after a week the nest will start adding new schedule points as you turn up and down.

HeidiHeidi

I had to turn off the learning as I have a totally and utterly random work- and lifestyle, there is literally no pattern to it, so the thing was turning on the heat at all sorts of inappropriate times. 

But that's fine, that's not why I wanted it. I wanted the remote control capability, which I've got.

If I can figure out how to make it go on for a short period of time on very early mornings, then I'm sorted!

toby2111

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

If I can figure out how to make it go on for a short period of time on very early mornings, then I'm sorted!

Think the shortest period is 1 hour.

kennethsmyth

toby2111 wrote: »

Think the shortest period is 1 hour.

It is only one hour but if you use the app/website IFTTT (if this then that) you can have it turn up and down temperature as if you did it manually so the 1 hour doesn't apply.

Set it for every day but just turn on the IFTTT recipe on the days you need it - not perfect but not bad

Look up IFTTT it's pretty cool

HeidiHeidi

toby2111 wrote: »

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

If I can figure out how to make it go on for a short period of time on very early mornings, then I'm sorted!

Think the shortest period is 1 hour.

Yeah, but if I can get it to come on at the time I want, I can turn it off once I'm up or before I leave.  It was trying to stop it coming on in the middle of the night that I couldn't figure out.

HeidiHeidi

kennethsmyth wrote: »

toby2111 wrote: »

Think the shortest period is 1 hour.

It is only one hour but if you use the app/website IFTTT (if this then that) you can have it turn up and down temperature as if you did it manually so the 1 hour doesn't apply.

Set it for every day but just turn on the IFTTT recipe on the days you need it - not perfect but not bad

Look up IFTTT it's pretty cool

Eh, what now???

Can you explain that in really, REALLY basic terms please??

kennethsmyth

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Yeah, but if I can get it to come on at the time I want, I can turn it off once I'm up or before I leave.  It was trying to stop it coming on in the middle of the night that I couldn't figure out.

Set up your phone in the location setting in nest (all persons phones if more than one living there) and you don't need to turn it off - it will default to away temp (set low eg 10c) when you leave and will stay that way until you return

kennethsmyth

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Eh, what now???

Can you explain that in really, REALLY basic terms please??

IFTTT is a website/app, it means "if this then that"

It allows you to setup really simple things - no programming needed, these simple things can be very powerful.

Eg if time 6am each morning then turn on nest to 18c

These "recipes" are created using icon type rules - very very simple.

In the above example "time" & "nest" are channels that you put your homes nest login details into.

Once you've switched on these channels you can create "recipes" with them

An example of one of mine is if the weather temperature tomorrow is below 1c send me an sms to let me know.

The weather channel is one channel and the sms channel is another, you just set them up in IFTTT - it takes seconds.

This recipe would be if temp tomorrow is less than 1c then sms me

kennethsmyth

Easiest way to learn IFTTT is to download app or just go to website - search IFTTT

HeidiHeidi

*head explodes*

But thanks!  I'll look into it when I have time to (hopefully) get my head around it.

kennethsmyth

Sorry last post for tonight, IFTTT is where the internet of things (IOT) gets really clever, you can make things talk to other things and do things they can't at present - it sounds complicated but it's really simple as the app etc makes it easy.

By the way your best us probably the first IOT item you may have bought (you may not have realised that!). The future of the Internet of things is going to get very exciting quickly - assuming you're into tech.

Eg I get in my car each morning to go to work as soon as my phone connects to the Bluetooth it pops up a message telling me it 42 mins to work and traffic is normal - pretty cool but actually very simple

I have told my phone my work and home address (I am a contact on my phone and told my phone this contact is me)

Location services are in but since my phone is an iPhone the locations I visit are only in the phone and not on some server tracking me. The phone builds / learns my regular locations I go to at around the same-ish times ie assumed I'm going to work in morning mon to fri. The phone realises that it has connected to a car Bluetooth kit and believes I maybe going to work so it lets me know estimated time and how is the traffic.

Each item very simple, put together powerful and useful, I only had to tell it two pieces of info.

Apologies to all for going on but this stuff is fun to me

kennethsmyth

Line above should read

By the way your nest is probably the first IOT item you may have bought

Not

By the way your best us probably the first IOT item you may have bought

All this tech and auto correct still f's upðŸ˜

Electric Ireland: Brige N

Hi there,

Thanks for your posts.

Should you have any further questions regarding the Nest please let us know, we would be happy tho help.

If you have any additional Electric Ireland queries, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks,
Brige

________

kennethsmyth

The Rook wrote: »

Hi there

I (very recently) switched over to Electric Ireland and just last Thursday we had an installer come out to put in the 3rd Generation Nest to our house. The heating setup is a gas boiler with a (previously) analogue dial that you could control the time that the heating came on. Immersion etc is separate.

Since we’ve had it installed we’ve had issues with the heating coming on at random times throughout the night & day (3am heating came on randomly) 
We’ve found that if we set the house base temperature to 16 degrees, and scheduled Nest to kick in at 1am to 19 degrees then the base temperature is reset to 19 degrees. 
Each day since we’ve got it the heating has been on for over 6 hours a day, whereas previously it would have been a maximum of three (and that’s a generous estimate). 

Can anyone explain to me how best to set up the Nest so that we can just control the time that the heating comes on and what temperature it comes on to. 


I’m not really (after less than a week) interested in having the Nest learn my comings and goings in the house, I don’t want it to sense when I’m away, I just want the Nest to stick to my schedule of having it come on at the time I specify, to get to the temperature I specify and not have a mind of its own (unless anyone can come up with a pain-free way of this happening!) 

Any help greatly appreciated.

The Rook

1. Turn off learning, turn off true radiant.
2. Clear schedules as it has been dropping in its own temps as it learnt what you did.
3. Setup your own manual schedule using the high temp you want and then later when to switch off put in the low temp you want.

ctlsleh

Climote sounds easier than Nest, does anyone have an opinion on which one is best or the benefits of one over the other?

toby2111

ctlsleh wrote: »

Climote sounds easier than Nest, does anyone have an opinion on which one is best or the benefits of one over the other?

I think Climote is good for multi zone heating. But there's an annual subscription to it which doesn't interest me. Nest is good but like all new things, it just takes a bit of time to get used to.
Mine is working fine now since I was advised to turn off True Radiant option.

kennethsmyth

Yep toby is correct - climote has subscription and is really no different than a timer and thermostat other than it can be switched on and off by mobile.

Nest and Hive are the two most relevant to most home users - I've nest but i can see how hive is very appropriate if you like the idea of turning off and on by a simple schedule and also by mobile, hive also has boost buttons and is battery operated so can be put on any wall.  I still prefer my nest and neither nest nor hive have homekit compatibility that would allow you to us siri to say "nest to 22 degrees" etc.

By the way the nest uses your location of your house to determine the weather there and the time to temp value is based on how long it has taken previously to move an amount of degrees and then looks to the outside weather/temp and applies that logic also.  So the value of time to temp of 1 hour say could be right but i have found out that its only accurate in a room that is not draughty and insulated well - as the time to temp value gets longer it gets more inaccurate.

ctlsleh

All,

very interesting, thanks for the feedback. my situation is that i have 3 zones, upstairs, downstairs and hot water, but no external thermostats, only the one thats integrated into the boiler. i want to regulate the heating more efficiently, but also want to be able to manage it remotely if needed, for example when away for the day, id like to be able to tunr it on an hour before getting home.

i know i would need 2 x nests for 3 zones, but id get one free if i moved back to EI, i also dont like the idea of having to pay a recurring fee for the Climote, although i know it will manage 3 zones, havent looked at hive.

Any suggestions on the most appropriate solution?

thanks
Eoin

kennethsmyth

ctlsleh wrote: »

All,

very interesting, thanks for the feedback. my situation is that i have 3 zones, upstairs, downstairs and hot water, but no external thermostats, only the one thats integrated into the boiler. i want to regulate the heating more efficiently, but also want to be able to manage it remotely if needed, for example when away for the day, id like to be able to tunr it on an hour before getting home.

i know i would need 2 x nests for 3 zones, but id get one free if i moved back to EI, i also dont like the idea of having to pay a recurring fee for the Climote, although i know it will manage 3 zones, havent looked at hive.

Any suggestions on the most appropriate solution?

thanks
Eoin

Both nest or hive would suit your needs.

Nest uses the thermostat and a heat link (white box). Heat link is put either in place of programmer or after and you leave programmer permanently on.

Heat link talks wirelessly to nest using its own firm of wireless communication, the nest itself connects directly to your wifi for Internet etc. access.


Hive uses 3 items, the hive thermostat, the heat link type box and a hub (another white box).

Thermostat talks to heat link box via the hub, the hub is plugged into your router. You would only need one hub for multiple hives.

Nest looks better, has some clever functions. Hive thermostat is battery powered so it's advantage is putting it where you like easily, it also has physical boost buttons. Nest needs power either by usb or power from old thermostat wiring

Electric Ireland: David

Hi ctlsleh,

Thanks for your post, and thanks too to kennethsmyth for providing some solid advice.

ctlsleh wrote:

i want to regulate the heating more efficiently, but also want to be able to manage it remotely if needed, for example when away for the day, id like to be able to tunr it on an hour before getting home.

With the Nest smartphone app you can stay in control and change the temperature from wherever you are. The Auto-Schedule feature also means that the Nest will 'learn', i.e. it will program itself to create a personalised schedule based on the temperature changes you've made. It adapts to your habits which makes being energy efficient even easier. Auto-Away also means that the Nest will detect when you're away and will turn itself down to save you energy.

Climote would also be a suitable option, considering its additional multi-zoned heating control and remote control facilities. However, as you mention, there is a recurring SIM-related charge, as the Climote can also be controlled via SMS (which makes it particularly suitable if a customer has poor wifi/broadband connectivity).

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,
David

ctlsleh

Electric Ireland: David wrote: »

Hi ctlsleh,

Thanks for your post, and thanks too to kennethsmyth for providing some solid advice.

Originally posted by ctlsleh
i want to regulate the heating more efficiently, but also want to be able to manage it remotely if needed, for example when away for the day, id like to be able to tunr it on an hour before getting home.

With the Nest smartphone app you can stay in control and change the temperature from wherever you are. The Auto-Schedule feature also means that the Nest will 'learn', i.e. it will program itself to create a personalised schedule based on the temperature changes you've made. It adapts to your habits which makes being energy efficient even easier. Auto-Away also means that the Nest will detect when you're away and will turn itself down to save you energy.

Climote would also be a suitable option, considering its additional multi-zoned heating control and remote control facilities. However, as you mention, there is a recurring SIM-related charge, as the Climote can also be controlled via SMS (which makes it particularly suitable if a customer has poor wifi/broadband connectivity).

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,
David

thanks David,

Is the recurring SIM charge mandatory or if i have good Wifi/Broadband speeds which i have, can i control it remotely from an app, even if not in the house?

Eoin

ctlsleh

kennethsmyth wrote: »

ctlsleh wrote: »

All,

very interesting, thanks for the feedback. my situation is that i have 3 zones, upstairs, downstairs and hot water, but no external thermostats, only the one thats integrated into the boiler. i want to regulate the heating more efficiently, but also want to be able to manage it remotely if needed, for example when away for the day, id like to be able to tunr it on an hour before getting home.

i know i would need 2 x nests for 3 zones, but id get one free if i moved back to EI, i also dont like the idea of having to pay a recurring fee for the Climote, although i know it will manage 3 zones, havent looked at hive.

Any suggestions on the most appropriate solution?

thanks
Eoin

Both nest or hive would suit your needs.

Nest uses the thermostat and a heat link (white box).  Heat link is put either in place of programmer or after and you leave programmer permanently on.

Heat link talks wirelessly to nest using its own firm of wireless communication, the nest itself connects directly to your wifi for Internet etc. access.


Hive uses 3 items, the hive thermostat, the heat link type box and a hub (another white box).

Thermostat talks to heat link box via the hub, the hub is plugged into your router.  You would only need one hub for multiple hives.

Nest looks better, has some clever functions.  Hive thermostat is battery powered so it's advantage is putting it where you like easily, it also has physical boost buttons.  Nest needs power either by usb or power from old thermostat wiring

thanks Kenneth,
i don't have a programmer other than the timer on front of the boiler and 3 manual levers for the 3 zones, so the Nest heat link would have to replace that somehow. ill take a look at the hive as well as i'm concerned on the long term support of the Nest.

If anyone has preference of nest over Hive Id be interested in hearing, both are remotely, ie offsite accessable from an app i assume?

thanks again,
Eoin

Electric Ireland: Una

Hi again Eoin,

Thank you for getting in touch.

The SIM fee for Climote is mandatory, at a cost of €36 per year. For customers who avail of our Climote plan, this fee is not applicable for the two years of the contract.

Yes, Climote can indeed be controlled from the customer's smart device.

Here is some further information regarding Climote with Electric Ireland on our website.

We are here on Boards.ie and our other social media channels until 6pm if you have any further queries. If you would like to speak directly to the Home Services department, they can be contacted on 1850 30 50 85 until 6pm Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays).

Kind regards,
Una

________

ctlsleh

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi again Eoin,

Thank you for getting in touch.

The SIM fee for Climote is mandatory, at a cost of €36 per year. For customers who avail of our Climote plan, this fee is not applicable for the two years of the contract.

Yes, Climote can indeed be controlled from the customer's smart device.

Here is some further information regarding Climote with Electric Ireland on our website.

We are here on Boards.ie and our other social media channels until 6pm if you have any further queries. If you would like to speak directly to the Home Services department, they can be contacted on 1850 30 50 85 until 6pm Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays).

Kind regards,
Una

________

Thanks Una,

One question. on the Nest hot water control, is that based on the boiler heating the Hot Water or on the emmersion element or is it either or?

Sorry for all the questions!

thanks
Eoin 

EI: Aoife

Hi Eoin,

There is no need to apologise for asking questions.

The Nest uses the boiler and heating zones to control hot water, so it would not control your immersion.

We hope this helps. Please let us know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Aoife

________