Census

TireeTerror

The thread about the census has been closed, so I cannot post in there.

Census guy was just around and I walked out to the gate to hand him back the form which I have not filled out.

I told him I was camping in Northern Ireland on Sunday and he said he had a form in his car for me to sign stating I was out of country. I told him as a matter of principle I did not wish to sign anything as I do not agree with anybody trying to force me to use my hand and write information down, I feel it is stopping my free will of not doing it.

He said the Gardai would be called on anyone who did not fill it in. I have a long drive and an electric gate, its secure. So they would have to climb it, and its over 6 foot high.

Do the Gards have a right to climb over without a search warrant? Would a sign stating the removal of implied rights of access stop visits without a warrant? Can they get a warrant when they do not know my name?

I'm not in here looking for answers such as "Wouldn't it be easier to just fill in the form?" etc, I could post in AH for that drivel. I will never fill out the form, it is my personal decision to do that, and I do so for no reason other than I do not want to as I believe that my free will should be recognised and accepted as it is not doing any harm to anyone else.

Pro Hoc Vice

TireeTerror wrote: »

The thread about the census has been closed, so I cannot post in there.

Census guy was just around and I walked out to the gate to hand him back the form which I have not filled out.

I told him I was camping in Northern Ireland on Sunday and he said he had a form in his car for me to sign stating I was out of country. I told him as a matter of principle I did not wish to sign anything as I do not agree with anybody trying to force me to use my hand and write information down, I feel it is stopping my free will of not doing it.

He said the Gardai would be called on anyone who did not fill it in. I have a long drive and an electric gate, its secure. So they would have to climb it, and its over 6 foot high.

Do the Gards have a right to climb over without a search warrant? Would a sign stating the removal of implied rights of access stop visits without a warrant? Can they get a warrant when they do not know my name?

I'm not in here looking for answers such as "Wouldn't it be easier to just fill in the form?" etc, I could post in AH for that drivel. I will never fill out the form, it is my personal decision to do that, and I do so for no reason other than I do not want to as I believe that my free will should be recognised and accepted as it is not doing any harm to anyone else.

Why would AGS want a warrant?

TireeTerror

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Why would AGS want a warrant?

I dont know, to gain access to speak to me? Ive a long driveway so how else are they going to get to the house.

I would not be volunteering to go and speak to them thats for sure.

Pro Hoc Vice

TireeTerror wrote: »

I dont know, to gain access to speak to me? Ive a long driveway so how else are they going to get to the house.

I would not be volunteering to go and speak to them thats for sure.

You really think they will question you. If it goes any further they will simply issue a summons. It's not a serious investigation. In fact AGS not even needed as the CSO can bring proceedings.

TireeTerror

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

You really think they will question you. If it goes any further they will simply issue a summons. It's not a serious investigation. In fact AGS not even needed as the CSO can bring proceedings.

Do they need your name for a summons? Or can they have a summons for the occupier of an address?

Hunter Mahan

I don't think you'll need to worry about Police with warrants

With trespassing you have to prove an intent to cause a criminal offence as far as I know. I'm not sure trespassing on it's own is an arrest-able offence.

It'll be just a summons in the post if they choose, and if you ignore that a fine in your absence. They need a name but that would be easily got if you work, don't work, own a car, have electricity, ever had a passsport, spoke to a neighbour, drank in your local etc etc

Pro Hoc Vice

TireeTerror wrote: »

Do they need your name for a summons? Or can they have a summons for the occupier of an address?

That will be up to CSO if they don't know who is resident then not a lot they can do about it. If they do find that info then they issue summons. Considering only 5 issued last time I would not be holding my breath.

TireeTerror

Thanks for the info. I guess I will just wait and see.


What is the actual law that you are breaking by not filling it out? It seems bizarre to me that you could be fined, and therefore locked up for non-payment of the fine because you didnt want to write something on a bit of paper.

Im not concerned with the arguments as to why they need the info or what they do with it, purely just the principle of free will and not being bullied by threats to do something I do not want to do that is not harming anyone.

nuac

TT sorry to hear that you are not cooperating with the census. Provision of services and state investment is based partly on census returns. We all have to to cooperate and do our bit.

The legislation is referred to on the census form. Failure to complete the census form is an offence under the relevant legislation

Furthermore when in a 100 years time your descendants look for your census return all they may find is a record of a court prosecution.

I note you have changed your attitude to door to door callers. On the "Door to door callers" thread here back in Oct '15 you described how as a door to door caller you got around people to deal with you. Questionable tactics.

Pro Hoc Vice

TireeTerror wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I guess I will just wait and see.


What is the actual law that you are breaking by not filling it out? It seems bizarre to me that you could be fined, and therefore locked up for non-payment of the fine because you didnt want to write something on a bit of paper.

Im not concerned with the arguments as to why they need the info or what they do with it, purely just the principle of free will and not being bullied by threats to do something I do not want to do that is not harming anyone.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/21/section/36/enacted/en/html#sec36

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/act/21/section/44/enacted/en/html#sec44

Spanish Eyes

Bullshyt.

You seem to be anti everything I think.

But goodnight and sweet dreams anyway.

It is for future planning, and future generations, I think it's wonderful. And it's anonymous for donkey's years anyway by law.

Your descendants will be delighted to find you on the census in 100 years time. Think of the footprint you are leaving behind for your descendants.

You will be dead by then, so why would you care?

Serial objector here, put on the red lights!

TireeTerror

nuac wrote: »

TT sorry to hear that you are not cooperating with the census. Provision of services and state investment is based partly on census returns. We all have to to cooperate and do our bit.

The legislation is referred to on the census form. Failure to complete the census form is an offence under the relevant legislation

Furthermore when in a 100 years time your descendants look for your census return all they may find is a record of a court prosecution.

I note you have changed your attitude to door to door callers. On the "Door to door callers" thread here back in Oct '15 you described how as a door to door caller you got around people to deal with you. Questionable tactics.

I think I already mentioned I was not in the legal section looking for a morality lecture, but seeing as you have ignored that point, it doesn't seem like the info they got in 2011 made much improvement for the provision of services.

I may have used tactics to speak to people, but I never tried to force anyone to do anything by threatening to take their liberty away. So have a word with yourself before continuing to post nonsense like this.

Hollister11

Cop on and fill it out ffs.

Pro Hoc Vice

TireeTerror wrote: »

I think I already mentioned I was not in the legal section looking for a morality lecture, but seeing as you have ignored that point, it doesn't seem like the info they got in 2011 made much improvement for the provision of services.

I may have used tactics to speak to people, but I never tried to force anyone to do anything by threatening to take their liberty away. So have a word with yourself before continuing to post nonsense like this.

There is no mention of anyone taking away any persons Liberty for not filling out a form.

Spanish Eyes

Hollister11 wrote: »

Cop on and fill it out ffs.

Serial objectors to everything.

Speedwell

OK, I used to be a gen-you-wine Tea-Party Ron-Paul Texas Libertarian not too long ago, and I did in fact boycott the census in the US. I didn't vote, I was against paying taxes.

Then I grew up and realized that there were people in the world besides myself, and liberty means living in harmony with them, and any viable arrangement between free people to live together in peace and prosperity constituted a, you guessed it, government. I also realized that government was going to happen WITH me or TO me (pick one) so I might as well raise my voice and be heard, pay my fair share and claim my fair rights.

Then I married my Irish husband and moved to Ireland, and studied a bit more about politics and citizenship, and felt like I'd been born in a hayloft. Jesus, what a load of arrogant, selfish, pig-ignorant nonsense I used to believe in when I thought I was being a liberty warrior. Good societies exist for a reason and good people do their duty.

Spanish Eyes

What is my name

Where do I live

Do I work or not

How many rooms in my house

And so on.

WTAF is the problem here since it won't be accessible until I am long fekkin dead.

Apart from Statisticians in a global sense that is. Still anonymous though. Guaranteed by law.

TireeTerror

Spanish Eyes this is the legal discussion forum. I came in here looking for answers on a genuine issue. I did not ask for your boring rant about whether someone should or should not fill out a piece of paper.

If you feel compelled to spout more and more drivel, as I see you continually do, go and post in AH.

Charles Babbage

When you live in a democratic society, you have to comply with the rule of law, as you have the opportunity to propose changes in that law at election time.

TireeTerror

Some right weirdo freak loser posts getting made in here tonight.

If this is the society I am supposed to be grateful for and comply, thank fcuk I never filled it out.

Muff Richardson

TireeTerror wrote: »

Some right weirdo freak loser posts getting made in here tonight.

If this is the society I am supposed to be grateful for and comply, thank fcuk I never filled it out.

Census Question 86a on page 16 "do you troll social media/online forums seeking meaningless attention? If answer is 'YES', why? It's pathetic"

Speedwell

TireeTerror wrote: »

Some right weirdo freak loser posts getting made in here tonight.

That's LEFT weirdo freak loser, to you.

degsie

There's always one.

nuac

TireeTerror wrote: »

I think I already mentioned I was not in the legal section looking for a morality lecture, but seeing as you have ignored that point, it doesn't seem like the info they got in 2011 made much improvement for the provision of services.

I may have used tactics to speak to people, but I never tried to force anyone to do anything by threatening to take their liberty away. So have a word with yourself before continuing to post nonsense like this.

Are you proud of the tactics you claim to have used to get past front doors to get people to switch electricity suppliers?

Refer to your own posts on the "Door to door seller" thread

Dyr

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What is my name

Where do I live

Do I work or not

How many rooms in my house

And so on.

WTAF is the problem here since it won't be accessible until I am long fekkin dead.

Apart from Statisticians in a global sense that is. Still anonymous though. Guaranteed by law.

The company who provide the CSO with the scanning machines just happen to be the same company who were providing the CIA with interrogators for their shenanigans in Abu Gharib. If you think that data will be secure until you're in your cold grave then you should google "Edward Snowden"

"Guaranteed By Law" lol

A_Sober_Paddy

Bambi wrote: »

The company who provide the CSO with the scanning machines just happen to be the same company who were providing the CIA with interrogators for their shenanigans in Abu Gharib. If you think that data will be secure until you're in your cold grave then you should google "Edward Snowden"

"Guaranteed By Law" lol

Even so(if that's true) so what if they have my information, it's pretty useless to be honest, the only ppl who's i'd not like to have the times I leave for work are the local scum wbo want to break into my home

Esel

TireeTerror wrote: »

The thread about the census has been closed, so I cannot post in there.

Census guy was just around and I walked out to the gate to hand him back the form which I have not filled out.

I told him I was camping in Northern Ireland on Sunday and he said he had a form in his car for me to sign stating I was out of country. I told him as a matter of principle I did not wish to sign anything as I do not agree with anybody trying to force me to use my hand and write information down, I feel it is stopping my free will of not doing it.

He said the Gardai would be called on anyone who did not fill it in. I have a long drive and an electric gate, its secure. So they would have to climb it, and its over 6 foot high.

Do the Gards have a right to climb over without a search warrant? Would a sign stating the removal of implied rights of access stop visits without a warrant? Can they get a warrant when they do not know my name?

I'm not in here looking for answers such as "Wouldn't it be easier to just fill in the form?" etc, I could post in AH for that drivel. I will never fill out the form, it is my personal decision to do that, and I do so for no reason other than I do not want to as I believe that my free will should be recognised and accepted as it is not doing any harm to anyone else.

The State will not force you to use your hand or write things down.

Oh wait! Do you have a driving licence? Sign with an X holding the pen between your teeth? There is a Freeman concept - you can't use CAPS. Even Garda caps.

Boards had found you not guilty, and you may leave this thread with no other slur on your character...

DivingDuck

Bambi wrote: »

"Guaranteed By Law" lol

This "guaranteed by law" nonsense is the part that irks me the most out of all the misinformation distributed by those who refuse to see any issue with the census or how it is being carried out.

Your anonymity is not, and can not be, guaranteed "by law".

Laws are broken in this country every minute of every day. The government, the CSO, and literally no other party on this earth is in a position to assure that the data will never be breached or compromised. These things happen daily, to institutions who take far greater data protection precautions than anything demonstrated here. They cannot promise this with 100% certainty. Nobody can. They should not be pretending that they can.

All that can be "guaranteed by law" is that an effort will be made to find an prosecute anyone who attempts to compromise your information.

You know, the same way attempts will be made to find and prosecute anyone who mugs you, breaks into your home, attacks you, or murders you.

Because none of those things ever happen. And if they did, the perpetrators would definitely be caught, right? It's guaranteed. By law!

Att vara en hest

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What is my name

Where do I live

Do I work or not

How many rooms in my house

And so on.

WTAF is the problem here since it won't be accessible until I am long fekkin dead.

Apart from Statisticians in a global sense that is. Still anonymous though. Guaranteed by law.

What if the current government gets overthrown in let's say a military coup? And what if the new leaders are not big fans of catholics? They now have a non-anonymous register of every catholic in the country.

It may seem farfetched but this kind of data collection is incredibly dangerous.. The intention might be good, but in the wrong hands this data can be used for horrible things. The fact that this form is mandatory and not anonymous is scary. Like something from a WW2 Germany.

Grolschevik

Att vara en hest wrote:

It may seem farfetched but this kind of data collection is incredibly dangerous.. The intention might be good, but in the wrong hands this data can be used for horrible things. The fact that this form is mandatory and not anonymous is scary. Like something from a WW2 Germany.

So. Finally. Godwin's.

MarkAnthony

Att vara en hest wrote: »

What if the current government gets overthrown in let's say a military coup? And what if the new leaders are not big fans of catholics? They now have a non-anonymous register of every catholic in the country.

It may seem farfetched but this kind of data collection is incredibly dangerous.. The intention might be good, but in the wrong hands this data can be used for horrible things. The fact that this form is mandatory and not anonymous is scary. Like something from a WW2 Germany.

Congratulations. I didn't think this thread could get any more ridiculous but you win. :pac:

Pat Mustard

Mod:

The previous census thread was closed.

This thread is now closed also.

Please do not open further census related threads in this forum, for now.