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Licence to trill

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  • 25-04-2016 1:13am
    #1
    Maudi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭


    Hello as an avid wildlife lover i was told recentely that i need a "special licence" to take pictures of a starlings nest i found in a house ive been working on as starlings are protected..and id have to apply to npws for same
    Can somebody confirm this for me..Are ..starlings are protected
    And do you need a licence to photograph their nests?


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    #2
    Zoo4m8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Zoo4m8


    Apparently...was discussed briefly here a couple days ago.


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    #3
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    You need a licence to photograph any active nest of any species.


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    #4
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    You 100% need a license to photograph any nests, eggs or chicks. Here's the link if you want to apply for one:

    http://www.npws.ie/licences/disturbance/photograph-or-film-protected-wild-animal-or-bird


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    #5
    whyulittle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭whyulittle


    Was disappointed to be stopped by a NPWS Ranger at Boora some months back and asked if I had a licence to photograph there. When I suggested a licence was only necessary around nest sites, he was adamant it was needed to photograph any wildlife, anywhere. But at the same time, he thought it was perfectly fine to do whatever you want in your garden. Wasn't any of the local rangers by the way.


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    #6
    Maudi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    You 100% need a license to photograph any nests, eggs or chicks. Here's the link if you want to apply for one:

    http://www.npws.ie/licences/disturbance/photograph-or-film-protected-wild-animal-or-bird

    Openyoureyes you are a legend..thank you


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    #7
    Kamili
    Registered Users Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    I'm not sure how valid or in date this is either but listed and protected species are here. Don't take it as gospel though

    http://www.npws.ie/sites/default/files/general/Listed_species_checklist_Dec12.pdf


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    #8
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Kamili wrote: »
    I'm not sure how valid or in date this is either but listed and protected species are here. Don't take it as gospel though

    http://www.npws.ie/sites/default/files/general/Listed_species_checklist_Dec12.pdf

    That is immaterial, as all nests are protected and, from the point of photography, a licence is required for all.


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    #9
    Kamili
    Registered Users Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    Ryland Kind Jail wrote: »
    That is immaterial, as all nests are protected and, from the point of photography, a licence is required for all.

    I was just adding it for informational purposes in response to whyulittle's post as from what I can see you do need to have a licence if photographing any animal or bird on that list, regardless of it being a nest or not.

    I could be wrong but I am sure you'll correct me pretty quickly :p


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    #10
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    whyulittle wrote: »
    Was disappointed to be stopped by a NPWS Ranger at Boora some months back and asked if I had a licence to photograph there. When I suggested a licence was only necessary around nest sites, he was adamant it was needed to photograph any wildlife, anywhere. But at the same time, he thought it was perfectly fine to do whatever you want in your garden. Wasn't any of the local rangers by the way.
    I can understand a law to prevent disturbance of wildlife would be very desirable, but a law to prevent photographing of wildlife would be just stupid.

    So the purpose of this license is to give you a temporary immunity to prosecution under the wildlife act. Specifically the offence; while engaged in a scientific or zoological study of a protected animal of
    while so engaged to interfere with or destroy the breeding place of such an animal
    My interpretation of this is that you would not need a license to photograph any wildlife or nest unless you were interfering with the nest/den as part of the process. For example a using a tele lens from a distance would not disturb the nest, but climbing up a tree and shoving a camera into the nest would.

    On the other hand, if you were interfering with the breeding site, you would need the licence, even if it was in your own garden or indeed in your house (maybe in the roof).


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    #11
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    recedite wrote: »
    I can understand a law to prevent disturbance of wildlife would be very desirable, but a law to prevent photographing of wildlife would be just stupid.

    So the purpose of this license is to give you a temporary immunity to prosecution under the wildlife act. Specifically the offence; while engaged in a scientific or zoological study of a protected animal of My interpretation of this is that you would not need a license to photograph any wildlife or nest unless you were interfering with the nest/den as part of the process. For example a using a tele lens from a distance would not disturb the nest, but climbing up a tree and shoving a camera into the nest would.

    On the other hand, if you were interfering with the breeding site, you would need the licence, even if it was in your own garden or indeed in your house (maybe in the roof).

    Your interpretation is wrong.


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    #12
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    recedite wrote: »
    My interpretation of this is that you would not need a license to photograph any wildlife or nest unless you were interfering with the nest/den as part of the process.

    The bit people forget about is disturbing the adults, which is something some people are able to pick up on and other people wouldn't notice at all. If the adult is worried about you near the nest, whether you can see the nest/chicks/eggs or not, you're causing disturbance and stopping them from normal incubating/brooding/feeding activities etc.


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    #13
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    If the adult is worried about you near the nest, whether you can see the nest/chicks/eggs or not, you're causing disturbance...
    Of course. The point is, this law is not to stop people photographing wildlife.
    Its to stop people disturbing breeding sites.


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    #14
    Stigura
    Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭Stigura


    Interesting.

    So, just for discussion: I have a nest box outside my door. It has chicks in it and I watch the adults bring them food. But, if they see me, standing in my kitchen, they veer away and sit on a post, waiting for me to go out of sight.

    Should I vacate my home, for the duration? My living here is clearly, to a degree, disturbing to the birds. Yet, by their own choice, they built that nest. Laid and brooded those eggs. Now the young are thriving. All during and despite my " Disturbance ".

    I suppose it's okay, as long as I don't point a camera at them? According to a black and white view of the law .....


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    #15
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Stigura wrote: »
    I suppose it's okay, as long as I don't point a camera at them? According to a black and white view of the law .....
    Yes, and you cannot subject them to any kind of scientific or zoological study either, without the licence.
    This would seem to be one instance of the law where "ignorance" really is a protection :pac:


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    #16
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Stigura wrote: »
    Interesting.

    So, just for discussion: I have a nest box outside my door. It has chicks in it and I watch the adults bring them food. But, if they see me, standing in my kitchen, they veer away and sit on a post, waiting for me to go out of sight.

    Should I vacate my home, for the duration? My living here is clearly, to a degree, disturbing to the birds. Yet, by their own choice, they built that nest. Laid and brooded those eggs. Now the young are thriving. All during and despite my " Disturbance ".

    I suppose it's okay, as long as I don't point a camera at them? According to a black and white view of the law .....

    There is a law saying you can't disturb breeding birds to take pictures.

    There is no law to kick people out of their houses if there's a nest nearby. Feel free to vacate it if you wish however.


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    #17
    Stigura
    Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭Stigura


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    There is no law to kick people out of their houses if there's a nest nearby. Feel free to vacate it if you wish however.

    Would you like me to leave?


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    #18
    Stigura
    Registered Users Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭Stigura


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    There is a law saying you can't disturb breeding birds to take pictures.

    So; My security camera watching their every move is fine. My making a cup of tea puts me in breach of the law?

    Just saying. I wouldn't Dream of Questioning ;)


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    #19
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    Stigura wrote: »
    So; My security camera watching their every move is fine. My making a cup of tea puts me in breach of the law?

    Just saying. I wouldn't Dream of Questioning ;)

    Security camera isn't causing disturbance.

    You making tea isn't willful disturbance and is slight enough in severity that it is likely to have little or no impact and the birds will probably become habituated to it.

    I'm sure you can see the possible problems with a law that would prosecute someone for accidentally disturbing breeding birds, even if that disturbance had little or no impact on their overall productivity. If you walked out of a shop having accidentally put something small in your pocket, the prosecution would still have to prove that you willfully stole it.

    Nobody on any side of the coin will tell you our wildlife laws are perfect, but it is certainly worthwhile having a law that discourages and prevents people risking birds, their eggs and their chicks for the sake of a photograph.


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