2D* Metroid Love-in

Mr.Saturn

I've just finished Metroid: Zero Mission and feel duty-bound to get everyone talking about this series. While it's very short, the difficulty is absent and it does a bit of hand-holding, I'm very much in love again.

You've heard it all before, whatwith the triumph of atmosphere over forcing a story on you. Gameplay that is just so undeniably smooth you have it down in a few seconds. The balance in the series generally borders on genius, in that it allows sequence breaking, but it's very rare you're coming up against anything that's outright undoable.

But, mostly, I just love being left to my own devices. Those accustomed to the familiar tropes of cut-scene, tutorial, cut-scence, stablizers and cut-scene would be surprised at how often the Metroid series just goes "actually, mate, you got this..g'wan."

I've cleared Fusion, Super and Zero Mission. Super being a favorite because it really nails down the blueprint of the original Metroid while also still standing back and letting you sort it out. There's no gimmicks, really. You're encouraged to experiment and it just pulls you along without ever really doing the whole "HEY! LOOK!" business. Fusion is a very linear experience, but it updates the mechanics considerably. It's fun, but you're constantly aware of how bottlenecked it is. Zero Mission would probably nip the "favourite" title had it not been so short and so easy. Hell, the hardest enemies in the game are two random mooks at the very end. It goes back to freeroaming of Super, with a little nudge, if you need it. So it's a welcome entry, but ever so fleeting.

So, yeah, have at it, people. Likes, dislikes, favourite entries and whatnot. Especially interested to hear from those that played them upon their release. I got into gaming very late in life and these games blew my mind, so I can imagine what effect they'd have at a formative stage.

*I qualify 2D for I've yet to get a run at the Prime series.

Star Lord

Zero Mission was indeed great, it kinda combined the best of both Metriod Fusion and Super Metroid, mixed them in a big original Metroid shaped bowl, and topped them with a nice bit of additional content that made Samus properly vulnerable just as you felt you were all fully powered and at the peak of the game! It was a really nice, refreshing twist I thought.

Fusion really is a genuinely good game, but just that little bit too directed for a Metroid game. I can see that they did so to make it a little more story driven, but locking off previously available areas in order to funnel you in a certain direction did detract from it a little for me. I did like how if you didn't collect the X as they floated around that they'd re-attach themselves to any nearby corpse to re-animate it.

But yes, Super Metroid is still the mammy of them all, the mother brain game. It directed you a little, and left you to your own devices to figure out how to get there, if you wanted to get there or go off re-exploring somewhere else you'd already been to, to see if you could find any new secrets.

I actually found the first of those "Teens react" videos that I actually liked in the recent one where they had the teens play Super Metroid for the first time. It's great seeing that the fantastic design of Super Metroid drove them to discover the things for themselves, and that the handholding that goes on in modern games isn't actually necessary when the design does the work for you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfytJmm7Wd8

Myrddin

I haven't played any of the Metroid games I went on a buying spree a while back & bought Metroid 1, 2, 3, Prime, Prime 2, & Prime 3...I need to pick up Fusion & Zero Mission still. I play on playing through them all in order, but I'm kinda dreading the first one on the NES...I'm not a fan of beyond vague 8-bit difficulty these days!

Retr0gamer

Myrddin wrote: »

I haven't played any of the Metroid games

Dr Bob

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Either have I . Well not for fir more than a minute.
I tried the snes one but the terrible on screen subtitles ( seriously what moron thought that was a good Idea?) put me off.
the later castlevania (meteroidvania) stuff though...I love them...

Retr0gamer

the subtitles are only there for the intro and outro. And yes they are stupid but the other question is why are you playing the pal version! :P

o1s1n

Myrddin wrote: »

I haven't played any of the Metroid games I went on a buying spree a while back & bought Metroid 1, 2, 3, Prime, Prime 2, & Prime 3...I need to pick up Fusion & Zero Mission still. I play on playing through them all in order, but I'm kinda dreading the first one on the NES...I'm not a fan of beyond vague 8-bit difficulty these days!

Down tools and go fetch Super Metroid. Its akin to having never played ALTTP or Super Mario World. Doing yourself and your SNES a disservice :eek:

Myrddin

I already did :P See my mention of a buying spree... (Super Metroid SFC ftw, 60Hz, english language option, very reasonable price, the perfect version to own)

o1s1n

By 'fetch' I meant go get it from your collection and stick it in your Super Nintendo

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

By 'fetch' I meant go get it from your collection and stick it in your Super Nintendo

I feel like I should play 1 & 2 first...I'm odd like that

o1s1n

Myrddin wrote: »

I feel like I should play 1 & 2 first...I'm odd like that

I know what you mean as I'm similar, but in this scenario just hit Super first.

It'd be similar to playing Earthbound before playing Mother. Earthbound and Super Metroid are just so good they're worth jumping to first.

Star Lord

Myrddin wrote: »

I haven't played any of the Metroid games

Dr Bob wrote: »

Either have I . Well not for fir more than a minute.

Retr0gamer

Myrddin wrote: »

I feel like I should play 1 & 2 first...I'm odd like that

Metroid 1 is very archaic. I'd go so far as to say it's near unplayable now. You need graph paper to map the game out or you'll be ****ed. Metroid 2 is a massive improvement except they forgot one thing, still no map. Get the graph paper out for that one as well.

Really just jump into Super Metroid. It's pretty much essential to play. I'd say it's far and away the greatest piece of game design ever created and I can't believe there's people yet to experience it.

And once you are finished look up some ADGQ speed runs. While the game has a normal path to follow it's built around being sequence broken but the game is so well made you won't realise that until a few playthroughs.

Mr.Saturn

If you really wanna play in order, go with the Zero Mission remake of the first Metroid. As I mentioned, it's really short and straightforward (and, you know, it's a more manageable game). You can consider it a kinda primer for the 2D series. It also has the original Metroid as an unlockable, in a kind of "here, look how far we've come" move (seriously, it's conceptually great, but plays out in a bit of a slog). So, yeah, you can have a 2-for-1 with a portable copy of the original too.

CiDeRmAn

I would suggest Super Metroid as it is it's own tutorial and pretty much wrote the book on teaching a player how to play without taking over or heavily signposting.
It's gorgeous too and some of the bosses are fecking huge!
Nice use of Mode 7 as well, and as you power up the suit Samus just goes from being bad ass to being supreme badass ruler of all in the final act, but that ending, sublime.
Don't hesitate, play it now!!!!

MilesMorales1

Skip metroid 1 and 2, they're not great. Start with super, work from there.

BGOllie

Myrddin wrote: »

I haven't played any of the Metroid games

ooh are we doing these now ?? cool

Hi,
I'm ollie and I haven't yet played Megaman x .

... ...
what ?
...

Andrew76

BGOllie wrote: »

ooh are we doing these now ?? cool

Hi,
I'm ollie and I haven't yet played Megaman x .

... ...
what ?
...

Mega-who? :P

At least everyone has played a Mario or Zelda game I hope!

I haven't played every Metroid game (and never will) but Super and the first Prime game are my favourites by far - both had superb atmosphere especially how they carried the Metroid gameplay into 3D - must dust off the GC someday and play Prime again. Think I have a few of the GBA games but wasn't smitten by them.

Retr0gamer

BGOllie wrote: »

I'm ollie and I haven't yet played Megaman x

I ignored it for years. It got slated by the European press which seems baffling considering how amazing the game is. It put me off the game for ages. Megaman just isn't as popular in Europe I guess.

CiDeRmAn

I have the two Megaman collections on the NTSC PS2, and they're pretty accurate.
Love to see a Metroid collection though, they could pack the lot in there without a care, and it would be magnificent!

o1s1n

It's weird how different perceptions are. I always hear that the NES wasn't as popular in Europe as the Master System, yet all my friends had the Nintendo console. Only knew one person with a Master System.

Similarly, we all played the hell out of Megaman 2.

Saying that, I didn't actually get my hands on Megaman X until a couple of years ago. It's a lovely looking game but I really don't like it nearly as much as 2.

CiDeRmAn

I missed that stuff in the 80's, being a Spectrum owner until 87 and a break until a Gameboy in '90

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I have the two Megaman collections on the NTSC PS2, and they're pretty accurate.

No, they really aren't. The emulation is appalling in them and cutting some intros and endings is baffling.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No, they really aren't. The emulation is appalling in them and cutting some intros and endings is baffling.

The ps2 version is well received, it's the GameCube port that's poor afaik

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

The ps2 version is well received, it's the GameCube port that's poor afaik

Jeremy Parish on retronauts says it's a very poor effort, it's just on GC it's worse. From my own experience the emulation is equally as off as the GC port. At least the latest Legacy Collection is a far better treatment of the games... and even then there's people moaning about the sprite flickering and slowdown that was present in the old games and is emulated accurately.

Mr.Saturn

I'm surprised with the stupidly successful run of the DS, Ninty didn't cash-in somewhat with a legit Metroid title on it. Kinda like Zelda on the Wii, it could've been a swan song for a machine, and driven up end-of-gen sales with a beloved IP.

In other news, am I wrong in thinking that Wii U VC release of Metroid Prime Trilogy hasn't dinted the price of the Wii hard copy at all?

Myrddin

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

In other news, am I wrong in thinking that Wii U VC release of Metroid Prime Trilogy hasn't dinted the price of the Wii hard copy at all?

Not wrong, that type of thing doesn't seem to affect physical collecting at all. Earthbound released on the VC for example, yet the price has only gotten higher & higher for a cart version...

Mr.Saturn

Myrddin wrote: »

Not wrong, that type of thing doesn't seem to affect physical collecting at all. Earthbound released on the VC for example, yet the price has only gotten higher & higher for a cart version...

Earthbound went up again? I recall (either Racketboy or Starmen) talking that it took a slight dip (we're talking 20-30 here), but that's kinda discouraging to read.

Mind, Earthbound's always been a curious case. It's not even slightly rare, with its quarter of a million sold and a stank-ton of shipped, but unsold copies in general circulation. It occupies this weird Venn diagram between hardcore fanbase, collectors and cash-in sellers. I mean, compare that with something like Uniracer, which is actually uncommon and in dwindling supply. They'd to take it off the shelf because of the Pixar lawsuit and it's believed to be limited to 300,000 copies in general circulation. An NTSC copy still only commands $15

Re-release can dent to collectibles, I've sometimes noticed. Marvel vs Capcom 2's digital re-release saw the 250-400 price tag of the PS2 version slashed to a tenth of what it was. I was kinda heartened to see Metroid Prime Trilogy going for 50 recently, but that seems to have been an outlier.

CiDeRmAn

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

I was kinda heartened to see Metroid Prime Trilogy going for 50 recently, but that seems to have been an outlier.

Myrddin

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

Earthbound went up again? I recall (either Racketboy or Starmen) talking that it took a slight dip (we're talking 20-30 here), but that's kinda discouraging to read.

Up & up. Selling for between $150 & $200 now, more so on the $200 end of the scale - http://www.ebay.com/sch/Video-Games/139973/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=earthbound&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=139973&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

I paid just over $120 I think for it not too long ago, & which is as close to the repro prices as it is the real deal nowadays! There's always the one or two that sell cheaply, & then others which command a higher than normal price, but ebay.com has it trending at around $180 or so.

Mind, Earthbound's always been a curious case. It's not even slightly rare, with its quarter of a million sold and a stank-ton of shipped, but unsold copies in general circulation. It occupies this weird Venn diagram between hardcore fanbase, collectors and cash-in sellers. I mean, compare that with something like Uniracer, which is actually uncommon and in dwindling supply. They'd to take it off the shelf because of the Pixar lawsuit and it's believed to be limited to 300,000 copies in general circulation. An NTSC copy still only commands $15

Indeed, not a rare game at all. More so I used it to indicate that a digital release had no impact on the price of a desirable physical item. Must pick up Unirally at some point!

Re-release can dent to collectibles, I've sometimes noticed. Marvel vs Capcom 2's digital re-release saw the 250-400 price tag of the PS2 version slashed to a tenth of what it was. I was kinda heartened to see Metroid Prime Trilogy going for 50 recently, but that seems to have been an outlier.

Interesting re the MvC2 game...that's some price drop! Re Metroid Prime Trilogy...I think Tesco had a hand in dropping that price too, that was one of the games involved in the great Tesco rush of 2014 & a large number of them headed over to the UK via ebay.

Mr.Saturn

I recall reports of folk walking up to the self-checkouts with 7-8 copies of MP: Trilogy. I was very resentful for a wealth of reasons, primarily for the fact all Tesco Rathmines had was 10 euro copies of Punch Out and Animal Crossing. Which I bought, because I'm a sucker, and then they were dropped to 5 quid a week later.

CiDeRmAn

Some argy bargy too with brazen people posting in these parts about the copies they flogged to make dough.

MilesMorales1

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Some argy bargy too with brazen people posting in these parts about the copies they flogged to make dough.

Oh yes I recall that now. Fun times... we've never had bargains as good as that since.

gouche

Just finished playing through original Metroid, which I really enjoyed actually.
Relied heavily on a map and the 3DS's restore point feature though!
Don't think I have the patience anymore to play through old NES games without some assistance!

Was going to get stuck into Metroid 2 which I've also got on 3DS but thinking I might just go straight to Super.
What's the best way to play it without the original?
Would get it on 3DS as well but it's only available on New 3DS.
Think it's available on Wii VC. I've also soft modded my Wii so could play through emulation that way, or emu on PC?

Retr0gamer

BSNES emulation would be the best outside of a SNES version. The virtual console version would be in ****ty 50hz and Wii home brew emulationn quality is piss poor.

gouche

Retr0gamer wrote: »

BSNES emulation would be the best outside of a SNES version. The virtual console version would be in ****ty 50hz and Wii home brew emulationn quality is piss poor.

Is BSNES emu still pretty intensive or is it easily handled by modern hardware?

gouche

I see the developer has changed name to Higan and added support for other formats.
There also seems to be a few options on accuracy, allowing you to choose fast, balanced or accurate emu.
That's my weekend gone so!

CiDeRmAn

I might just throw out there that real hardware is the way to go, and if space is a premium then pick up a Super Everdrive.
So, a US or Jap SNES, an RGB cable and the appropriate Super Everdrive and your SNES gaming needs are sorted.

Star Lord

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I might just throw out there that real hardware is the way to go, and if space is a premium then pick up a Super Everdrive.
So, a US or Jap SNES, an RGB cable and the appropriate Super Everdrive and your SNES gaming needs are sorted.

Or a modded SNES with a 50/60 hz switch!
Must try to get myself an Everdrive.
Would be handy if they did those multi carts, like the Famicom one you have

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, a US ...SNES .

CiDeRmAn

o1s1n wrote: »

A little harsh?
No, it's as ugly as sin!

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

A little harsh?
No, it's as ugly as sin!

If there was a meme to stab both my eyes simultaneously it would have been used instead :pac:

Something I've just realised, I've never actually seen a US SNES in person. Although it's probably for the best, I may spontaneously combust.

CiDeRmAn

o1s1n wrote: »

If there was a meme to stab both my eyes simultaneously it would have been used instead :pac:

Something I've just realised, I've never actually seen a US SNES in person. Although it's probably for the best, I may spontaneously combust.

I had one for a while, then got a PAL one and installed a switch less mod instead, runs everything.
And they are far more purdy than the left in the corner on debs night Super Nintendo.

Myrddin

Us snes > cart slot modded pal snes

Just be done with it and get one of each, the greatest console ever deserves no less!

o1s1n

Lah de dah, two Super Nintendos, no recession in your house. :pac:

Myrddin

o1s1n wrote: »

Lah de dah, two Super Nintendos, no recession in your house. :pac:

I've three, one from each region not expensive at all though, got a piss yellow jap one for nothing that I retrobrited back to glory. Got a pal one for a good price on adverts, it had a broken wire in the psu that I repaired, and I imported a us one for about €40 posted or something. It's nice to have one of each, it's my favourite console so I don't mind being a bit silly when it comes to snes stuff