Dangerous dog in apartment block

polydactyl

Just checking for opinions as I am not a dog lover so want to check I am not biased. I own an apartment and have lived there for 8 years no issue. Am fairly certain my aggrement when I purchased said no pets but management company line is "well if they are not hurting anyone nothing we can do"

Now last year a couple moved in with a huge dog either Bull mastiff or Japanese Tosa...haven''t gotten close enough to look. Not that I would as they seem like a fairly scary looking couple. They have him muzzled 98% of the time but not always and now tend to block open the emergency exit to shortcut out with him for walks....which I shut everytime I come across it but there is no alarm on the door so it doen't help.

They also let him do his business in the greeen area and never pick it up. The rest of the apartment block is very much families with small kids who play in the grass including my own.

As an owner I am trying to get the managment copy to listen to me but they seem more interested in this renter having his rights to have his dog. (I would also think its not right to keep a dog that size in an apt.

Any opinions or help on what to say to the management company?

Michael D Not Higgins

A few things to consider:

Are there other dogs in the building? It can be hard to enforce the rules if it's been years without any strict adherence.

Can you get a few neighbours who share your viewpoint together? This gives you more of a voice.

The management company is the apartment owners. The managing agent has been hired by the management company. Have you attended AGMs? It's worth bringing it up and notifying the directors of the management company as well as the agent.

maggiepip

Management is right, what harm is the dog doing? Has he bitten you or something?
It's restricted breed, by the way, not "dangerous dog". Most probably the dog is a perfectly nice dog.
Why do you want to potentially cause a couple to have to give up their dog, or have to move, just because you think they have a big scary dog?

teggers5

First of all what has this dog done for you to consider him dangerous?

As for not cleaning up after him, that is not on so the owners should be approached about that.

There's absolutely no reason a dog of any size cannot live happily in an apartment once all its needs are being met.

Hank Scorpio

He's muzzled all the time and doesn't bark keeping people up? What's the problem.

How do you know ( assume ) he's dangerous? Breed is irrelevant. Have you seen the dog attack someone?

If you don't like dogs fair enough, but it shouldn't impact other peoples opinions, seemingly this couple and their dog have done nothing wrong.

bmwguy

Just be careful with the description you are giving of the dog as dangerous. Big, yes. Dangerous, potentially, but every person in the apartment block could be potentially dangerous, who knows.

However, not picking up dog poo in an apartment block is not on, the place will be full of it soon as big dogs drop big dumps.

Apart from that though, I cant see anything that gives you a case, the fact that you don't like dogs is irrelevant.

Unless there is an explicit ban on dogs in the development of course, but even the likes of that may not be enforced and people with miniature yorkshire terriers would be bound by same rules

Dawney

As others have said- he may be on the restricted breed list but this doesn't mean he's a dangerous dog. If it were a retriever or lab or a cute fluffy dog you'd still have the same issues with the owner would you not?

Instead of putting these people in a position where they potentially have to give up their dog (and unfortunately restricted breeds are awfully hard to re-home due to people's preconceived notions, such as yours, that they're 'dangerous'), or move, how about asking the management company to put up a sign on the green instructing people to pick up after their dog, or face a fine. Or ask them to provide a bin for dog waste, or bags, or just stick up a big in your face sign in the apt block? Perhaps knowing that people are complaining about the waste being left will be enough incentive for them to pick it up?

Mrs OBumble

If you think that the dogs needs are not being met because it is living an a space which it too small, you could complain to your council's animal control officer.

I would agree with you: if the rules say no pets, then this should be enforced before harm is done, not afterwards.

Also, there should be an alarm on that emergency exit door.

Not picking up after them shows the type of people they are to be honest, it's only scum who would allow their dog dirty an area like that so for that reason alone they deserve to have the rule of no dogs enforced (which exists in almost every apartment block).

An apartment block is no place for a pet in anyway case.

Milly33

I would not think you are being harsh.. I would be a animal lover now and I see where you are coming from.
Not regarding the dangerous dog, this is a lot of stigma but then again you have the right to think this way if you are not familiar with the dog. Regarding the apartment size this doesn't really come into it, that's the owners business unless they are keeping him in a cardboard box or something..

I would maybe try to approach them and say it outright to them (a lot of people look scary but actually are fine). After that perhaps see if a group of residents would like to put a letter together. I suppose my approach would be try the nice one first and then if they do not co-operate, start videoing them taking their dog out to poop in the area and not picking it up. Report them they can be fined for this.

Leaving the exit door open also just so they can go for a walk is a bit much. Fine lets say if two of them are there and one stands at the open door while the other goes out to walk the dog but if they are leaving it open and not watching it is irresponsible of them

maggiepip

There is absolutely no problem "needs wise" with a dog living in an apartment, of any size, once the dog is being walked and brought out to exercise.
Aside from the fact they don't pick up the poo (are you sure of this?), an issue which can be easily addressed, they actually sound pretty responsible owners.
Restricted breeds, by law , are required to be muzzled in public places. They are doing this. They are also excercising their dog. There's obviously no noise issue with barking, or I'm sure you'd have mentioned it.
You should leave these people alone.

teggers5

polydactyl wrote: »

I would also think its not right to keep a dog that size in an apt.

Some people would say the same about children in an apartment

ted1

maggiepip wrote: »

Management is right, what harm is the dog doing? Has he bitten you or something?
It's restricted breed, by the way, not "dangerous dog". Most probably the dog is a perfectly nice dog.
Why do you want to potentially cause a couple to have to give up their dog, or have to move, just because you think they have a big scary dog?

He's crapping in common areas which is a health hazard as well as littering. Also dogs need too and shouldn't be kept in apartments so keeping one in an apartment could be considered cruelty

toxicity234

polydactyl wrote: »

Just checking for opinions as I am not a dog lover so want to check I am not biased. I own an apartment and have lived there for 8 years no issue. Am fairly certain my aggrement when I purchased said no pets but management company line is "well if they are not hurting anyone nothing we can do"

Now last year a couple moved in with a huge dog either Bull mastiff or Japanese Tosa...haven''t gotten close enough to look. Not that I would as they seem like a fairly scary looking couple. They have him muzzled 98% of the time but not always and now tend to block open the emergency exit to shortcut out with him for walks....which I shut everytime I come across it but there is no alarm on the door so it doen't help.

They also let him do his business in the greeen area and never pick it up. The rest of the apartment block is very much families with small kids who play in the grass including my own.

As an owner I am trying to get the managment copy to listen to me but they seem more interested in this renter having his rights to have his dog. (I would also think its not right to keep a dog that size in an apt.

Any opinions or help on what to say to the management company?

Read this twice.
Honestly the dog doesn't sound one bit dangerous. The dog sound like a well looked after good pet, with good owners.

The person who wrote this sound like someone that just want to cause trouble for the pet owner within the apt block as is look for some back up for the internet before attacking the management company with the line. "I read on the internet that this dog is very dangerous and should be living in the block"

Dial Hard

ted1 wrote:

He's crapping in common areas which is a health hazard as well as littering. Also dogs need too and shouldn't be kept in apartments so keeping one in an apartment could be considered cruelty

Everyone has agreed that the owners not picking up after the dog is a big issue, but how in God's name is keeping a dog in an apartment cruelty?

Ashbx

ted1 wrote: »

Also dogs need too and shouldn't be kept in apartments so keeping one in an apartment could be considered cruelty

That is the most ridiculous, uneducated comment I have read! Of course a dog can live in an apartment. A horse lives in a stable....which is a significantly bigger animal in a significantly smaller "house"....is this cruel? Of course not. Good dog owners will walk their dogs regardless of where they live. The fact that these people walk their dog regularly and with a muzzle gives me the impression they are good dog owners!

I am an owner of two dogs so I may be a little biased on this. The OP may have some valid points but overall I just get the sense they don't like dogs and don't want them in their apartment block and unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. I don't like my neighbours but im not going to make up false accusations about them just to get rid of them.

Dial Hard

toxicity234 wrote:

The dog sound like a well looked after good pet, with good owners.

Ashbx wrote:

gives me the impression they are good dog owners!

Well, apart from not pooper scooping. It's one of my biggest bête noirs and I'm a dog owner.

I find it can be a cultural thing sometimes. Also generational; older people can be appalling for not picking up after their dogs as it just wasn't a thing in their day.

Clampdown

Fwiw, I worked in a dog shelter for 2 years where 90% of the dogs were pit bulls and there was not one bite recorded off of them. We would get labs, poodles, etc turned in for biting people in the house far more often.

Perhaps start out by talking to the couple, ask them about the dog (pretend like you like dogs even), and ask if he's friendly. Most dogs will be friendly especially if they get used to seeing a person around. If you can open up the lines of communication you might have a better chance at getting them to address your concerns about them not picking up after the dog, which they absolutely should be doing.

The management company may not be able to stop them keeping the dog, but they can definitely post signage saying 'Clean up after your dog', 'No fouling', something like that, and if need be, tell the occupants that any costs for cleaning up after the dog will be charged to them (or taken off security deposit if they are renting). If the problem is not being handled, take a mobile phone video of the the dog in the act from a window or something to show to the management company.

apache

If you wanted to you could nail them on the poo (health and safety) and the emergency door being left open (security issue). A few warning letters from the management company needs to be sent. The house rules of my apartment block state you can have animals as long as they do not bother anybody. This is causing problems. The management company needs to sort this.

jd

Check the head lease with your solicitor. If it says no animals get him to send a letter to the directors reminding them of the terms of the lease and their obligations to enforce them.

Paulw

toxicity234 wrote: »

The dog sound like a well looked after good pet, with good owners.

Aside from the fact that the dog does it's business in a public area and don't clean up after it, which is an offence that the council dog warden can deal with. :eek:

Mrs OBumble

I love how the dog-experts here can tell if the dog's need are being met without even seeing the walking-schedule and apartment space and irrespective of the muzzle.

Frankly, if a dog needs to be muzzled if it's in public - or perhaps even when it's inside so it doesn't bark and upset the neighbours - then that's an indicator of a possible problem. Keyboard warriors on the interweb cannot determine if it is a problem or not, the situation should be referred to animal welfare experts for them to assess in real life.

maggiepip

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I love how the dog-experts here can tell if the dog's need are being met without even seeing the walking-schedule and apartment space and irrespective of the muzzle.

Frankly, if a dog needs to be muzzled if it's in public - or perhaps even when it's inside so it doesn't bark and upset the neighbours - then that's an indicator of a possible problem. Keyboard warriors on the interweb cannot determine if it is a problem or not, the situation should be referred to animal welfare experts for them to assess in real life.

Listen . Firstly a restricted breed , by LAW, must be muzzled in public. The owners are upholding the law.
Who said anything about the dog being muzzled indoors to stop barking!!!????
Where did you come up with that theory from?
The dog is being walked by its owner's, and lives indoors with its owner's, is being brought outside to toilet by its owner's. And you think animal welfare should investigate!!??? Why???
Because they all live in an apartment???
That's ridiculous.

Dial Hard

Mrs OBumble wrote:

Frankly, if a dog needs to be muzzled if it's in public - or perhaps even when it's inside so it doesn't bark and upset the neighbours - then that's an indicator of a possible problem.

No, it's really not. Dogs on the restricted breed list are required to be muzzled in public at all times. Nothing to do with barking or even aggression because the RBL was compiled pretty much arbitrarily and not based on bite statistics or anything even resembling empirical data. Basket muzzles are specifically designed *not* to inhibit a dog's ability to bark.

I realise that this is the A&P forum and discussion on what constitutes problematic dog behaviour falls out of its remit. Perhaps this would be better moved to Animal & Pet Issues or closed altogether.

CollyFlower

I don't get why people are being so hard on the OP. Most apartment's have a no pets rule. Rules are meant to be followed not broken. .. If they're being lax with that rule what else will they turn a blind-eye to?

maggiepip

maggiepip wrote: »

Listen . Firstly a restricted breed , by LAW, must be muzzled in public. The owners are upholding the law.
Who said anything about the dog being muzzled indoors to stop barking!!!????
Where did you come up with that theory from?
The dog is being walked by its owner's, and lives indoors with its owner's, is being brought outside to toilet by its owner's. And you think animal welfare should investigate!!??? Why???
Because they all live in an apartment???
That's ridiculous.

The fact the owner is not cleaning up after its dog should mean the owner is severely fined or the dog removed from the owner. The owner is not a responsible owner they are a scourge. Not cleaning up after a dog = absolute scum bag who I would not want to live beside.

Dogs should not be living in apartments anyway. They should be living outside with a shed or kennel. This new age dog inside thing needs to be set aside. We have had dogs and cats for as long as I can remember and they have not or never will be allowed to set a single paw inside the door of the house.

Also the scum appear to gravitate towards dangerous breeds so that also would make me want rid of them neighbours.

maggiepip

Arturo Lemon Radioactivity wrote: »

The fact the owner is not cleaning up after its dog should mean the owner is severely fined or the dog removed from the owner. The owner is not a responsible owner they are a scourge. Not cleaning up after a dog = absolute scum bag who I would not want to live beside.

Dogs should not be living in apartments anyway. They should be living outside with a shed or kennel. This new age dog inside thing needs to be set aside. We have had dogs and cats for as long as I can remember and they have not or never will be allowed to set a single paw inside the door of the house.

Also the scum appear to gravitate towards dangerous breeds so that also would make me want rid of them neighbours.

You show your ignorance of any knowledge there,, and you speak so piously lol.
Dogs are domesticated animals. Domestication (you obviously do not understand what that means), has altered dogs DNA to crave human company and strive to live alongside us. Dogs have shared our homes since they existed. It is not a new age thing. Some people just chose to banish dogs outdoors.
Dogs are at their happiest in the direct company of their owner. They have peace of mind and their social needs are met. This has been scientifically proven.

While it's not good to leave dog mess behind, some people are careless unfortunately, it does not mean they are absolute "scum" . In most cases making them aware would resolve the issue. Your aggressiveness shines through in your post. Are aggressive people scum?

ixus

A lot of posters on their high horse here. OP has said they aren't a fan of dogs which is fair enough. That wasn't their issue. There are 3.

1. Not always muzzled in public.
2. Leaves emergency exit open which allows potential thieves to get in. Anyone who lived in an apt block would know this.
3. Dog owners do not clean up after it in common area which is a health hazard for kids.

The OP has asked for advice on how to manage this. Using dangerous as opposed to restricted appears to be misinformed use.

OP, these are the three issues you have listed and that's how you should approach the management company. It appears to be the behaviour of the dog owners that is the issue.

Issue 2 & 3 are not acceptable. I lived in an apt block down the country once where teenagers got in an open emergency exit and set fire to an apt door for the craic. Depending on where you live, you can get all kinds of anti-social behaviour.

matt-dublin

OP, I'm a previous director on a management company for apartments.

I think broadly if the dog isn't causing any distruption there's no point in alienating your neighbours. Although your "house rules" should be permanently posted in the common areas for clarity.

We've had similar instances where I live and have chosen not to do anything about pets that don't cause harm as to be honest it will result in anti social behaviours or issues with fees etc.

However what we did do, when witnessed if one of the owners dogs would deficate in the common areas or gardens we would levy a fine onto their fees if the mess wasn't cleaned up. We had no issues introducing the fine at an AGM as there is a fair few children who use the gardens as a play area and the common census was that poop and kids don't mix well (is that chocolate on your face syndrome!)

The emergency exits (all exits and a trances) should be spring loaded for security anyway so you might want to get into your management company about that.

Hope this helps?

Tea drinker

toxicity234 wrote: »

Read this twice.
Honestly the dog doesn't sound one bit dangerous. The dog sound like a well looked after good pet, with good owners.

The person who wrote this sound like someone that just want to cause trouble for the pet owner within the apt block as is look for some back up for the internet before attacking the management company with the line. "I read on the internet that this dog is very dangerous and should be living in the block"

how is not cleaning up after the dog a "good owner"?
Dog faeces in common areas is in and of itself a public health issue and dangerous especially for children.

Paulw

Mod Note: Plenty of advice already on thread, both good and bad. OP can chase management agent about the issue, and/or contact local council dog warden about the issues.