"You shouldn't speak ill of the dead"

Sunflower 27

Really? Why not? This is something that annoys me. Why should we praise someone in death that was not a particularly nice person in life?

I find this falseness quite annoying. If we are honest, there are a lot of very unpleasant people in the world. Why act as if someone deserves to put on a pedestal and praised just because they have passed.

I have heard this saying bandied about a good bit recently. No way would I suddenly change my opinion (or be perceived to have) of someone just because they died.

Edit: To clarify, I am not suggesting we should all start slating someone maliciously once they die. I am talking about someone who was spoken of badly in life and yet in death is spoken of as if they were a good, decent human being.

What do others think?

Mesrine65

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Really? Why not? This is something that annoys me. Why should we praise someone in death that was not a particularly nice person in life?

I find this falseness quite annoying. If we are honest, there are a lot of very unpleasant people in the world. Why act as if someone deserves to put on a pedestal and praised just because they have passed.

I have heard this saying bandied about a good bit recently. No way would I suddenly change my opinion of someone just because they died.

What do others think?

Agreed, WTF are the dead going to do about it anyway?

Cathy.C

Because it's pointless and they're not here to defend themselves.

Although that Hitler feller was a right cnut.

ahnowbrowncow

I'll not hear a bad word about Hitler, a grand lad.

smash

Out of "Respect"... It's a load of shíte.

JustShon

I agree to an extent. If someone was a piece of sh1t then it sticks in the throat when people get up and talk about how lovely they were etc.

I think the real reason has nothing to do with respect for the dead person but to do with respecting surviving family members. Even the biggest piece of sh1t in the world has people who miss them when they die.

Mesrine65

smash wrote: »

Out of "Respect"... It's a load of shíte.

Respect is too valuable a commodity to be given freely, it must be earned.

Sunflower 27

Cathy.C wrote: »

Because it's pointless and they're not here to defend themselves.

It's pointless acting they are what they weren't. The falseness can be hysterical though.

Ruu

Heaven has anudder angle.

Sunflower 27

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Respect is too valuable a commodity to be given freely, it must be earned.

You said it better than I could. That is what I mean. This idea that respect is given in death when nothing was done to earn it in life.

Such hypocrisy.

cowboyBuilder

Been beaten with the Hitler comments .

Stalin was a f*cking legend tho!

My Dad is a great fan, he has a 6 x 4 foot portrait of him hanging in his living room.

Cathy.C

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

It's pointless acting they are what they weren't. The falseness can be hysterical though.

I hear you but it's a two sided coin as some people take advantage of the fact that someone has died and throw out the most outrageous horse bollox about them. If people have something to say about someone, then imo they should have the guts to do it when that person is still alive, otherwise they should just stfu about them and get on with their own lives while they are still lucky enough to have one.

Sunflower 27

JustShon wrote: »

I agree to an extent. If someone was a piece of sh1t then it sticks in the throat when people get up and talk about how lovely they were etc.

I think the real reason has nothing to do with respect for the dead person but to do with respecting surviving family members. Even the biggest piece of sh1t in the world has people who miss them when they die.

Most real aholes are likely known to be that by their families as well. Maybe it would be better to say nothing other than offer condolences to the family than act all false and hypocritical.

False respect is a joke. And the person giving it always looks like an idiot.

listermint

Cathy.C wrote: »

I hear you but it's a two sided coin as some people take advantage of the fact that someone has died and throw out the most outrageous horse bollox about them. If people have something to say about someone, then imo they should have the guts to do it when they are alive, otherwise they should just stfu and get on with their lives while they are still lucky enough to have one.

Boom!

Sunflower 27

Cathy.C wrote: »

I hear you but it's a two sided coin as some people take advantage of the fact that someone has died and throw out the most outrageous horse bollox about them. If people have something to say about someone, then imo they should have the guts to do it when that person is still alive, otherwise they should just stfu about them and get on with their own lives while they are still lucky enough to have one.

I'm not talking about malicious people that spread lies about the dead. They are no better than the ahole that died.

JustShon

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Most real aholes are likely known to be that by their families as well. Maybe it would be better to say nothing other than offer condolences to the family than act all false and hypocritical.

False respect is a joke. And the person giving it always looks like an idiot.

Sure, I'm not advocating going on about how amazing they are when they were an arsehole in life.

Maybe though, just maybe, it'd be tactful to not talk too loudly about how much of an arsehole they were where their grieving family and / or friends might see or hear it.

Sure they'll know deep down that their lost loved one was a piece of sh1t but people react to death in weird ways.

schizo1014

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Most real aholes are likely known to be that by their families as well. Maybe it would be better to say nothing other than offer condolences to the family than act all false and hypocritical.

False respect is a joke. And the person giving it always looks like an idiot.

This! I've often seen people giving false respect about a dead person to look good only to turn around to someone else and say they were nothing but a c#*t. It would really suit people to just keep their mouths closed in the first place

My uncle, my grandfather and my father could all be complete and utter a$$holes when they put their minds to it, but we're not allowed remember that anymore. In fact I was told I needed counselling to deal with my father's death, because I sometimes tell stories in which he hasn't been canonised.

DEFTLEFTHAND

schizo1014 wrote: »

This! I've often seen people giving false respect about a dead person to look good only to turn around to someone else and say they were nothing but a c#*t. It would really suit people to just keep their mouths closed in the first place

Yeah sometimes it's better to say nothing at all. That's what I do if I didn't care for the deceased.

Sunflower 27

JustShon wrote: »

Sure, I'm not advocating going on about how amazing they are when they were an arsehole in life.

Maybe though, just maybe, it'd be tactful to not talk too loudly about how much of an arsehole they were where their grieving family and / or friends might see or hear it.

Sure they'll know deep down that their lost loved one was a piece of sh1t but people react to death in weird ways.

You can be respectful and still not fall over yourself lamenting what a great loss it all is.

Sunflower 27

Deleted User wrote: »

My uncle, my grandfather and my father could all be complete and utter a$$holes when they put their minds to it, but we're not allowed remember that anymore. In fact I was told I needed counselling to deal with my father's death, because I sometimes tell stories in which he hasn't been canonised.

You don't need counselling. They may need to visit a memory clinic though

wally79

Not speaking ill of the dead doesn't mean you have to speak well of them

If you can't say anything nice just don't say anything at all

The_Valeyard

It's been said before but 'never was there a bastard put in the ground'

JustShon

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

You can be respectful and still not fall over yourself lamenting what a great loss it all is.

Hence the first line of the post you quoted, I'm not advocating praising someone just because they're dead. I hate hearing people go on and on about how wonderful someone was when half the people at the funeral are there to make sure they're really dead.

But the thread title is "You shouldn't speak ill of the dead" and I agree with that. I'm a fan of just keeping your mouth shut if you're glad someone is gone. Don't praise them if they don't deserve it but, at least if their relatives or friends are likely to hear or read it, there's no need to rip into them either.

Cathy.C

Cathy.C wrote: »

I hear you but it's a two sided coin as some people take advantage of the fact that someone has died and throw out the most outrageous horse bollox about them. If people have something to say about someone, then imo they should have the guts to do it when that person is still alive, otherwise they should just stfu about them and get on with their own lives while they are still lucky enough to have one.

I'd agree with that, if you can't bring yourself to say something nice (even just for the sake of the family who miss them), the option is there to say nothing.

Just because they're dead doesn't mean you have to say nice, but false, things about them. Equally you don't have to pick that point in time to start talking about what bastards they were either.

It's called tact.

Panthro

I'll speak ill of whoever I want, the prick.

Samaris

If you can't say anything nice...yeah, keep your still alive and non-grieving gob shut and don't make it all about yourself by showing how (falsely) regretful you are that the dead person is gone.

Sure, there's some truly nasty people out there, but unless you're related to one of them that dies, why would you even get involved? If you detest the person to the extent where you can't think of a single nice thing to say about them, stay away. It's not just about respect (for the dead, for the dead's family, for the people who might actually, shock horror, be mourning), but also about dignity, including your own.

Sunflower 27

Samaris wrote: »

It's not just about respect (for the dead, for the dead's family, for the people who might actually, shock horror, be mourning), but also about dignity, including your own.

100% agree with that statement.

Sunflower 27

JustShon wrote: »

Hence the first line of the post you quoted, I'm not advocating praising someone just because they're dead. I hate hearing people go on and on about how wonderful someone was when half the people at the funeral are there to make sure they're really dead.

:pac::pac::pac:

techdiver

Reminds me of this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98783090

People defending a cnut with the usual excuse of respect etc.

Jade Goody was a saint

The Backwards Man

I agree with the other posters who say it best when they say nothing at all. If I don't like someone when they're alive I'm very unlikely to like them much better when they're dead, but me speaking ill of them or reminding everybody what an horrendous individual they were ain't going to make them any more or less dead.

astrofool

techdiver wrote: »

Reminds me of this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98783090

People defending a cnut with the usual excuse of respect etc.

His cohort, Liam Lawlor, was also a "great lad" once dead, despite the misery he caused countless families through greed and corruption.

team_actimel

I think it's just in case the deceased hear you (if there is an afterlife that is). Same way holy people wouldn't say a bad word about Jesus or God incase he's listening.

Samaris

smash wrote: »

Out of "Respect"... It's a load of shíte.

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Respect is too valuable a commodity to be given freely, it must be earned.

*cough*bull*****cough* Well, it's something I feel strongly about anyway. Respect is LOST rather than earned. I do not demand that every person I meet proves themselves to me to give them the basic respect due another person. What sort of gyroscopically self-centred view of the world is that anyway? Do you truly think that everyone else should pander to you for your respect rather than just people treating each other as they might hope to be treated back?

Sure, there are people I don't respect. But I started off with them with an open mind, I would hope, and treated them with courtesy and manners. If they pissed me off enough, yeah, I would have lost respect for them. But most adults in my life have responded to respect with respect. Rather than my demanding their respect first before I'll deign to have respect for them.

Mesrine65

Samaris wrote: »

*cough*bull*****cough* Well, it's something I feel strongly about anyway. Respect is LOST rather than earned. I do not demand that every person I meet proves themselves to me to give them the basic respect due another person. What sort of gyroscopically self-centred view of the world is that anyway? Do you truly think that everyone else should pander to you for your respect rather than just people treating each other as they might hope to be treated back?

Sure, there are people I don't respect. But I started off with them with an open mind, I would hope, and treated them with courtesy and manners. If they pissed me off enough, yeah, I would have lost respect for them. But most adults in my life have responded to respect with respect. Rather than my demanding their respect first before I'll deign to have respect for them.

I do not demand, I do not expect every person I meet to prove themselves to me & I don't think that everyone else should pander to me for my respect...

But sure you're entitled to your opinion, as am I entitled to mine...we just differ

jackofalltrades

techdiver wrote: »

Reminds me of this thread - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98783090

People defending a cnut with the usual excuse of respect etc.

Yeah I remember that, it was grating to read people waxing lyrical about a man who caused so much damage.
His death should have been reported so we could remember what he did.
There's no way his eulogy should have been covered.