Sale agreed V Sold

lisademps

Can somebody please tell me can an estate agent write a letter telling us when to get out, if the house has gone sale agreed and not sold?

Michael D Not Higgins

What does the letter exactly say? It needs to fulfil a number of criteria to be compliant with the law and must give you notice commensurate with your length of tenure. Also if you have a fixed term lease in force at the moment they will have to wait until after that has been completed.

Butters1979

Why would an estate agent do this? It must come from the landlord.
Anyway, legally, unless you are in a current lease, if they intend to sell the property they can give you due notice to leave. They do not have to wait until the property is sold or even sale agreed.

MarkAnthony

Assuming the above has been dealt with, yes you can be given proper notice prior to the house being sold. Vacant possession is probably a requirement of the buyer. A house isn't sold until it's completely done and dusted so you would need to be out before it can be sold.

BoatMad

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Assuming the above has been dealt with, yes you can be given proper notice prior to the house being sold. Vacant possession is probably a requirement of the buyer. A house isn't sold until it's completely done and dusted so you would need to be out before it can be sold.

this is actually something we need a referendum on, a lease should not be capable of been terminated due to a sale. the buyer should simply inherit a sitting Tennant

blacklilly

BoatMad wrote: »

this is actually something we need a referendum on, a lease should not be capable of been terminated due to a sale. the buyer should simply inherit a sitting Tennant

You do know that a referendum is only required in matters concerning changes to the constitution?

MarkAnthony

BoatMad wrote: »

this is actually something we need a referendum on, a lease should not be capable of been terminated due to a sale. the buyer should simply inherit a sitting Tennant

They really shouldn't.

Proper notices periods etc. should of course be adhered to but people renting are mobile. To do otherwise would mean even less rental properties as people don't want to be committed for 4 years at a time while in the process of selling.

MarkAnthony

blacklilly wrote: »

You do know that a referendum is only required in matters concerning changes to the constitution?

It would arguably be required due to the double protection of private property.

Anyway's I see a rubber stamp 'back on topic' coming so I'm bowing out of this one! :pac:

Michael D Not Higgins

BoatMad wrote: »

this is actually something we need a referendum on, a lease should not be capable of been terminated due to a sale. the buyer should simply inherit a sitting Tennant

A fixed term lease cannot be terminated for a sale, however a tenancy outside of such a lease can, as long as it meets the requirements of the legislation.

Outside of the Residential Tenancies Act, if anyone wishes to discuss referenda and legal implications, please take it up in Legal Discussion.

Edit: The fixed term lease can be terminated if there is a break clause allowed in the lease agreement.

BoatMad

MarkAnthony wrote: »

They really shouldn't.

Proper notices periods etc. should of course be adhered to but people renting are mobile. To do otherwise would mean even less rental properties as people don't want to be committed for 4 years at a time while in the process of selling.

As an ex renters, security of tenure is the biggest issue for many tenants

The lease should continue as long as the renters pays the rent and meets the terms of the lease. The renter should be able to terminate the lease by appropriate means consistent with the type of lease

all I said is that sale of the property should not be a clause of lease or rent termination in Ireland and we need to change the law to reflect that .

EDIT: sorry Mod, over posted before saw your comments . No further discussion on this here

Butters1979

Some strange posts going on in here.
OP, if you have a lease then you cannot be asked to leave unless there is a clause in that lease which states it can be broken for sale of property.
If you are outside any lease agreement you can be asked to leave, with the required notice period, as soon as they decide to sell. They do not have to wait until sold or even sale agreed.
Most banks would require a vacant property to agree to the mortgage, so unless it is a cash buyer, it is most likely they cannot sign the contracts, and therefore move from sale agreed to sold, until you have moved out.

This explains it in full detail.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

As an ex renters, security of tenure is the biggest issue for many tenants

The lease should continue as long as the renters pays the rent and meets the terms of the lease. The renter should be able to terminate the lease by appropriate means consistent with the type of lease

all I said is that sale of the property should not be a clause of lease or rent termination in Ireland and we need to change the law to reflect that .

EDIT: sorry Mod, over posted before saw your comments . No further discussion on this here

So you think the owner of the property should have to give up all say on it for as long as a tenant wants to live there and have no reasons for asking them to leave such as sale, wanting to move in etc and of course there should be a possibility to ask people to leave for no reason every once in a while like every 4 years.

You cannot honestly suggest that you take away all these options and a tenant be able to stay in a place for decades if they wish even if the owner doesn't want this. Totally madness to even suggest something like this. The owner of the property has to retain rights to the property and avenues to take control of it it they want/need to.

lisademps

The letter states in bold and capitals at the top:

"Termination by landlord pursuant to paragraph 1 of the table to S.34 of the residential tenancies act 2004"

"Your tenancy of the dwelling at blah blah will terminate on 3rd June 2016. The notice period of termination begins on 7th April 2016. The reason for the termination of the tenancy is that the landlord intends selling the property within three months of the termination of the tenancy. You have the whole of the 24 hours of the termination date to vacate possession of the dwelling. Any issues as to the validity of the Notice or the rights of the Landlord to serve it, must be referred to the PRTB under Part 6 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 within 28 days from the receipt of it"

The landlord won't give any information, even told us not to worry about moving out, he keeps saying he can't get in contact with the estate agent, but yet today the estate agent rang me to arrange for a surveyor to come and look at it.

Michael D Not Higgins

That's a word for word copy of the sample notices from the PRTB. It appears to be a valid notice if you have been in the property for between 2 and 3 years (8 weeks notice) and there's no fixed term lease in effect.

lisademps

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's a word for word copy of the sample notices from the PRTB. It appears to be a valid notice if you have been in the property for between 2 and 3 years (8 weeks notice) and there's no fixed term lease in effect.

We've actually been in the property for 3 years and 3 months so we should be getting 12 weeks notice and not 8. I asked the estate agent where he got the 8 weeks and the landlord has told him we are living there for a shorter period, I would imagine. Anyway we don't really care as we are looking at places, we were just wondering what would happen if he actually didn't sell the place, isn't there law now saying that they have to sell if that is their reason in the first place.

Michael D Not Higgins

lisademps wrote: »

We've actually been in the property for 3 years and 3 months so we should be getting 12 weeks notice and not 8. I asked the estate agent where he got the 8 weeks and the landlord has told him we are living there for a shorter period, I would imagine. Anyway we don't really care as we are looking at places, we were just wondering what would happen if he actually didn't sell the place, isn't there law now saying that they have to sell if that is their reason in the first place.

The law requires an intention to transfer interest in the property within 3 months. If the house has gone sale agreed, that would certainly support their case as being intended to be sold. If you feel the notice is not valid, for example if there is no intention to sell, then you can open a dispute with the PRTB on the validity of the termination notice.