Accident report query

Charlottes Interweb

Hi all, just wondering about something, hope someone can advise, sorry about the long tale. Last week I was helping hold up a machine in work while it was being fitted in the afternoon and I put a lot of strain on my back. I carried on my own duties but started getting bad pains a couple of hours later, but finished out my shift.. Next day I was worse, but muddled through, but on the third day (Thursday) I couldn't hack it and left at lunch to see doc, who told me I'd torn all the ligaments and muscles in my upper back, and needed a week off. I took the weekend off (unpaid) and went back today only to be told there'd be no accident report recorded because I'd worked on after the original day I got hurt. I'm just worried if I do have further issues will the fact there was no incident report be an issue?

MarkAnthony

Have you asked why there is no incident report. What about your return to work interview, has that been recorded?

Charlottes Interweb

I was told it was because I continued working after the actual incident, more or less to say it could have happened at another time.. I filled out a back to work form today, no interview as such..

MarkAnthony

Charlottes Interweb wrote: »

I was told it was because I continued working after the actual incident, more or less to say it could have happened at another time.. I filled out a back to work form today, no interview as such..

I'd suggest speaking to a solicitor if it's something you think you need to claim for. It seems to mo the covering has already started. They'll direct you where to get a medical opinion that isn't informed by a junior manager who can't organise the right people to be available during equipment installation.

At this stage you should be able to find one who's willing to advise (briefly) for a nominal fee.

Charlottes Interweb

I'd really prefer not to have to go down the claims route, I'm back to work now, tho probably not quite fit to be, and I know I've lost the few days pay, but I'm just afraid if there might be more serious issues with my health because of this.. And that the fact the recording of the incident has been brushed aside might leave me in a more vulnerable position if this had to go further.. I'll seek some legal advice per your suggestion, really appreciate your time, thank you..

Little CuChulainn

Charlottes Interweb wrote: »

I'd really prefer not to have to go down the claims route, I'm back to work now, tho probably not quite fit to be, and I know I've lost the few days pay, but I'm just afraid if there might be more serious issues with my health because of this.. And that the fact the recording of the incident has been brushed aside might leave me in a more vulnerable position if this had to go further.. I'll seek some legal advice per your suggestion, really appreciate your time, thank you..

You can't have it both ways. You either insist on an accident report and follow up with a solicitor if they refuse and get properly treated or you chalk it down to a life lesson and forget about any help from the company in the future. The longer you put off doing the official stuff the harder it will be to link your injury to a work accident.

Charlottes Interweb

I know, I do appreciate that I'm probably being too soft, I guess what I was wondering is do they have actual grounds for refusing to file the report on the basis they're stating? It's a big enough company, I'd have thought they'd have their homework done, I heard yesterday they did the same thing to another girl only a few weeks back, and she's still out of work..

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

BattleCorp

Charlottes Interweb wrote: »

Hi all, just wondering about something, hope someone can advise, sorry about the long tale. Last week I was helping hold up a machine in work while it was being fitted in the afternoon and I put a lot of strain on my back. I carried on my own duties but started getting bad pains a couple of hours later, but finished out my shift.. Next day I was worse, but muddled through, but on the third day (Thursday) I couldn't hack it and left at lunch to see doc, who told me I'd torn all the ligaments and muscles in my upper back, and needed a week off. I took the weekend off (unpaid) and went back today only to be told there'd be no accident report recorded because I'd worked on after the original day I got hurt. I'm just worried if I do have further issues will the fact there was no incident report be an issue?

Just for clarity.

You got injured on Tuesday lifting up a machine.
You worked Wednesday.
You worked some of Thursday but went to the doctor.
You didn't come back to work until the following Tuesday. Is this correct?

When and to who did you report the incident to? Was it your manager? Were there any witnesses to you telling your manager about your back injury in case he/she denies that you said anything about your accident? You are legally supposed to report accidents so by telling your manager you have complied with the law. It's up to him to keep proper records. I'd be insisting that the incident is recorded in the accident report book.

Did the doctor give you a certificate for a week off work? If he did, why did the company let you come back to work before a week had expired? (Thursday to Tuesday isn't a week off).

If your back is still sore you shouldn't be in work. If someone "tears all the ligaments and muscles" in their back, they usually won't be fit for work within one week.

If the company fob you off and don't fill in an official accident report form, I'd seek legal advice. In fact, I'd seek legal advice eitherways.

Charlottes Interweb

BattleCorp wrote: »

Just for clarity.

You got injured on Tuesday lifting up a machine.
You worked Wednesday.
You worked some of Thursday but went to the doctor.
You didn't come back to work until the following Tuesday. Is this correct?

When and to who did you report the incident to? Was it your manager? Were there any witnesses to you telling your manager about your back injury in case he/she denies that you said anything about your accident? You are legally supposed to report accidents so by telling your manager you have complied with the law. It's up to him to keep proper records. I'd be insisting that the incident is recorded in the accident report book.

Did the doctor give you a certificate for a week off work? If he did, why did the company let you come back to work before a week had expired? (Thursday to Tuesday isn't a week off).

If your back is still sore you shouldn't be in work. If someone "tears all the ligaments and muscles" in their back, they usually won't be fit for work within one week.

If the company fob you off and don't fill in an official accident report form, I'd seek legal advice. In fact, I'd seek legal advice eitherways.

Thanks for your in-depth reply, BattleCorp.

I hurt it Monday morning of last week just before lunch. I informed my manager shortly after lunch that my back was bothering me a bit and he said he would try to get back up and help me later (problem in all of this is that this location it happened in is located away from the main site and all office/HR facilities). I carried on but around 4pm texted my manager to say I was in trouble, but he didn't see it until 5pm, where he helped me finish up.
I went into work Tuesday thinking as I was off Wednesday I'd just get through it and rest then, but on Thursday I was still as bad and had to leave at lunch and go to the doctor. Doctor diagnosed the torn ligaments and recommended the rest of last week and all of this week off due to the nature of my work, but as it was going to be unpaid I had no choice but to ask him to put the cert for the long weekend. He certed me off until Monday, and that was my day off, so I went back to work Tuesday, but I've been struggling all week, to be honest.
So, to summarise, I informed my manager the Monday it happened, verbally and then in text (no witnesses but he has already informed HR this all happened), then worked a day and a half after before being forced to stop.
Really all I want is a written record that there was an incident, tho hopefully it'll never be needed, but my own manager has hit this wall with HR over the fact they feel there's no need for an incident report due to me continuing to work the same day, and then working the day after..

_Brian

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You can't have it both ways. You either insist on an accident report and follow up with a solicitor if they refuse and get properly treated or you chalk it down to a life lesson and forget about any help from the company in the future. The longer you put off doing the official stuff the harder it will be to link your injury to a work accident.

Actually OP has two full years from the date of the incident to lodge a claim with PIAB. So he kinda can have it both ways and see how it pans out.

OP should definitely ensure an incident is recorded or at least have a letter from the company refusing to acknowledge the incident. This will show he tried to record the incident correctly.

Little CuChulainn

_Brian wrote: »

Actually OP has two full years from the date of the incident to lodge a claim with PIAB. So he kinda can have it both ways and see how it pans out.

OP should definitely ensure an incident is recorded or at least have a letter from the company refusing to acknowledge the incident. This will show he tried to record the incident correctly.

You appear to have missed the point of my post.

_Brian

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You appear to have missed the point of my post.

Sorry.
Story of my life.

Pat Mustard

Charlottes Interweb wrote: »

I'm just worried if I do have further issues will the fact there was no incident report be an issue?

Damages/assessments in personal injury cases are decided on the basis of medical evidence, not incident reports.

How can he demonstrate he was injured at work?

NUTLEY BOY

Deleted User wrote: »

How can he demonstrate he was injured at work?

On the sum total of the evidence proven to the standard of the balance of probabilities.

NUTLEY BOY

Not legal advice. Observations on the general principles.

OP really must insist on getting this type of occurrence recorded as an injury sustained at work.

The management attitude is self-serving and based on the thoroughly modern HR practice of denying that anything ever happened. It really does insult the intelligence to approach matters on the basis that if it is not written down it did not happen.:mad:

In OP's position I would write a letter to my employer setting out the relevant background and send it by registered post and request that this be taken as a formal notification of the incident and the injury. Follow up the registered letter by getting confirmation of delivery from An Post's website. This eliminates any argument about knowledge on the part of the employer.

This course of action is not the same thing as making an actual employers' liability claim. The object of the exercise is to preserve the OP's position in case things go awry medically and to put some manners on the employer.

Obiter, the facts suggest an unsafe system of work.

P.S. Is the employer not obliged to report the accident as per http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/act/10/section/8/enacted/en/html ?

Pat Mustard

Deleted User wrote: »

How can he demonstrate he was injured at work?

Plaintiffs tend to show that an accident happened by giving their own evidence and bringing the evidence of witnesses.

The nature injury and the likely cause of it are matters for medical evidence.

Pat Mustard

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Plaintiffs tend to show that an accident happened by giving their own evidence and bringing the evidence of witnesses.

The nature injury and the likely cause of it are matters for medical evidence.

But there was no accident recorded or reported and he continued working.

Pro Hoc Vice

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But there was no accident recorded or reported and he continued working.

He gives that evidence, it is up to the court to either accept that evidence or not. The defendant can record that the accident was reported a number of days later. Then it's up to doctors and lawyers to argue it out and a judge decide.

hullaballoo

Deleted User wrote: »

But there was no accident recorded or reported and he continued working.

Someone failing to write down that an accident happened doesn't mean the accident didn't happen.

I nearly cut my finger off trying to open a mangosteen yesterday morning. I didn't write it down but my finger still has a fairly major cut on it.

BattleCorp

Do you still have a copy of the text that you sent to your manager where you said that you were in trouble?

That's more evidence that you reported an incident.

Charlottes Interweb

BattleCorp wrote: »

Do you still have a copy of the text that you sent to your manager where you said that you were in trouble?

That's more evidence that you reported an incident.

Yes, we both have copies, he's already told me it won't be getting deleted, and I trust this guy implicitly, he's doing his best to help me out where he can.. He's ready to say I did verbally tell him I had hurt my back, and that I also texted in writing only two hours later..

my3cents

It may be irrelevant but just in case there is a need to claim latter I would make a point of photographing the item that was being moved/held up, document how I was instructed to move it along with how I did move it and of course record the weight of the item.

Was the weight you were expected to hold reasonable?

Charlottes Interweb

my3cents wrote: »

It may be irrelevant but just in case there is a need to claim latter I would make a point of photographing the item that was being moved/held up, document how I was instructed to move it along with how I did move it and of course record the weight of the item.

Was the weight you were expected to hold reasonable?

I'll be back on that site tomorrow, I plan on taking photographs, and there's also a cctv camera pointing directly at the scene, so I'll be calling on that too when I meet the GM today..

Weight of the hoist I'd be guessing at a half tonne, but point was only to keep it upright, just the way it was being moved was pure Irish shall we say, and it kept tilting over on top of me, that's where the weight came into play..

Charlottes Interweb

Just an update, armed with the confidence and helpful information I got here, I have successfully gotten my incident report and this week off to recover.. Much obliged everybody..