Soccer problems for son.....

LegacyUser

My little lad plays football and has done now for three years. I'll be the first to put my hand up and say he's not a natural but he works hard, attends all the training, goes to all the matches and really puts his heart and soul into it. We never really wanted him to play it but all his friends are on the team so we fully supported him from day one....we make sure he is at everything, give lifts to other kids etc...the usual stuff....

Fast forward three years. The team have gone from strength to strength and are brilliant. But my son hasn't really progressed that much but he is still loving it. Well, so he tells me...

Many matches I've stood at the side of the pitch listening to the other kids give out about him....coach does nothing. Other parents do nothing. I bite my tongue and congratulate them all when they come off the pitch. Its bloody heartbreaking.

However, a couple of months ago, we had to confront the manager over the way he was treating my son. He was leaving him out of matches, cutting his game time, roaring at him, letting the other kids roar at him....just let me say that he is 9.....so that will put this into perspective. Just let me say we struggled with whether to say anything but we felt we had to....

So, following us talking to the manager and the club.........I had a phone call from his girlfriend shouting down the phone at me all sorts of horrible stuff......my son has become an open target for slagging.......me and my husband get the cold shoulder by other parents at the matches......

I did say to myself, though, that I would take anything from anyone if it means that my son is ok on the team.....but I can see he's struggling but he doesn't want to leave. All his 'friends' are on the team...I use that term loosely because these friends are the ones who do the slagging....

I am having regrets of ever opening my mouth but I know I cant turn back time. But then on the other hand, I stood up to the manager, who in my eyes and others eyes, was bullying my child....

I usually let kids sort out their own stuff but he is an adult and I do feel it needed adult intervention...

I have heard about these soccer mom cliques/soccer dad cliques (very American I know) but I have never experienced anything like this in my life.

So...do I just continue to stand there, like a billy no mates, and watch my child be excluded more and more by his manager and peers? Because standing up for him as gotten us no where really.....

I would really appreciate advice on this...no matter what you have to say............thanks for reading.

silverharp

take him out and join another club. My son does soccer in MMYFC and that would not be tolerated, nobody is allowed give any player a hard time on or off the pitch. I don't know if you are in Dublin or not but I do tend to find that the clubs in more working class areas tend to have less disciplined kids and some of the coaches are obnoxious fckers ,effing at the kids , threatening not to play them in full earshot of everyone.

Depending on where you live or where you can get to, put the word out and find out what the vibe is about particular clubs. Most Im sure are sound but it will tend to get around if there are a few bad'uns

whiskeyman

That really sounds awful.
If your son continues in that club and in this manner, he may come to hate the sport.

Does he absolutely need to be in a club to enjoy it?
Are there other clubs, or even other sports clubs he may be interested in?

He may be better off playing football in a more 'social' setting, with friends in the park etc... where the emphases is off the competition but more on the fun of playing.

I never played any 'club' soccer in my youth, but always loved playing in the park or schoolyard.
I'm now playing as much as I can in friendly leagues / work colleagues and I love the sports so much.

helimachoptor

I was out for a work lunch yesterday chatting to a soccer coach (hes been doing it 15 years)

At that age they should be playing for fun and iirc its classed as competitive, they should be enjoying themselves.

A stressed out coach isnt going to do anyone any favours.

I would say move him

Drumpot

I would remove my son immediately from that environment. I believe There's a longer term issue whereby he learns to feel that the nasty behaviour he is being subjected to is normal.

I want my children to grow up with supportive friends. I also want them to grow up being supportive. And lastly I want them to learn the skills to remove the nasty , negative (the kind you mentioned) people from their lives when they need to.

It took me a long time to learn this skill. I love the way Helen Mirren says she wishes shed learned to say "f**k off" to people earlier in life.

I can't see any benefit from you trying to thread on eggshells with the kind of people you have described. It might not be easy for your child if you take him away from these people at first but if it's as toxic an environment as you say, he sounds better off staying well clear of that crowd. Can't be good for his self esteem getting bullied and watching his parents take the same abuse.

I try to surround myself with like minded people who I feel share my values. It gets easier as you start to isolate the negative (including family) people.

racso1975

Take a look at the FAI site in relation to child protection guidelines. You will see your child is being bullied and emotionally abused (though their parameters are to narrow on this I believe)

I would remove him but would not stop at that. If you do not take this further you leave it open to other children to endure what your son has. U9 football is about fun. It's ridiculous adults that turn it competitive living off the victories of their children or team!!!

Neyite

They are his "friends" because that's all he knows - he is only 9. When he is playing in a different team with a more inclusive policy, and its about fun and teamwork and camaraderie, he will learn the difference.

I'd be with the others - either take him our or maybe (I dunno about soccer so don't know if you can do this) enrol him in a nicer club as well so that once he settles in, he will be happy to drop the old club.

CosmicSmash

silverharp wrote: »

take him out and join another club. My son does soccer in MMYFC and that would not be tolerated, nobody is allowed give any player a hard time on or off the pitch. I don't know if you are in Dublin or not but I do tend to find that the clubs in more working class areas tend to have less disciplined kids and some of the coaches are obnoxious fckers ,effing at the kids , threatening not to play them in full earshot of everyone.

Depending on where you live or where you can get to, put the word out and find out what the vibe is about particular clubs. Most Im sure are sound but it will tend to get around if there are a few bad'uns

I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that all clubs in working class areas are less disciplined than than their counterparts in other areas? It comes across as you have a thing about working class areas from your post, as you manage to smear both the players and their coaches.

Emme

Your son needs to do something that builds him up. Soccer seems to be knocking him down. I'd be surprised if he wants to continue playing in that environment. He might do better in a different activity such as aikido or some other martial art. Respect and discipline are part of martial arts and it seems to be lacking in the soccer club.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies.

I have asked my son if he wants to leave or stay and he has begged me to stay. He would be devastated if I moved him. But it is terrible to see that he thinks this is the only way he will have friends. He did say to me before that if he didn't play for the team, he would have no friends :-(

He does do a martial art as well which is great for him. This class is the complete opposite of the football...

He is lovely little chap who just wants to belong, I think that's what it comes down to.

But I just cant believe the other parents attitude towards the aggression and towards me and his dad, all because we DARED challenge the manager...

I was reading back over my op and I probably should state as well that the manager does give him some praise after matches so he's not a complete d**k....

Somebody mentioned the FAI guidelines - I printed these out when we had the meeting with the manager - he was all 'oh I am so fond of your son and he's a great lad etc etc'....

I agree that football at this age should be about fun and fitness and 'fair play' but for this coach, its about winning, aggression and who is the best...

silverharp

CosmicSmash wrote: »

I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that all clubs in working class areas are less disciplined than than their counterparts in other areas? It comes across as you have a thing about working class areas from your post, as you manage to smear both the players and their coaches.

"all" is your word not mine and I said most are sound however It's my experience from being on the sidelines for that last 4 years (under 8's upwards) that its more likely to have an obnoxious coach or kids if the club is in a rough area. Ive seen games where the team crowd the ref if they didn't like a decision, or where the coach is highly insulting to the kids on his team and other ones where the other team refuse to shake hands at the end.
if the OP is looking for another club, the location of the club might be a factor

LegacyUser

notasoccermom wrote: »

He does do a martial art as well which is great for him. This class is the complete opposite of the football...

I was going to suggest getting him into other activities and phase the football out. I can understand how he thinks those boys are his friends and he'll loose them so you need to "replace" them for want of a better term. I am assuming he doesn't have the same friend circle from the martial arts so maybe look at what else is on offer, consider not sport/competitive activities or something similar to football like GAA so he's still getting the team element - it might be a lot at first with the football but try to get him excited for something else he'd rather be at then the football. It is awful for adults to treat a kid and a kids sports game like that but I don't think your going to change people and while you as parents can put up with your son will start to notice and he's learning a bad example of what friends are meant to be.

homerjay2005

notasoccermom wrote: »

However, a couple of months ago, we had to confront the manager over the way he was treating my son. He was leaving him out of matches, cutting his game time, roaring at him, letting the other kids roar at him....just let me say that he is 9.....so that will put this into perspective. Just let me say we struggled with whether to say anything but we felt we had to....

hi there,

so as a parent and a somebody who has been coaching 6-10 year olds for the last 4 years i am kinda torn here.

now, the baseline here is very very simple - is he enjoying it or not? that is all that matters here. if he is, then i think you are over reacting. if he is not, then you need to move him. but please please please for the sake of the child dont move him out of football, move him to a club that maybe doesnt have such high expectations as the one he is with, there is plenty of them around - a club with an atmosphere of taking part as opposed to winning.

i do see sometimes, parents being too over protective of their kids and this leads to issues, they only see their kid and dont see the full picture. it does seem however that the other kids unfortunately dont see the "taking part is all that counts" and they only care about winning, that sadly is a massive part of Irish culture at that age.

i find it a bit worrying that you blame the coach on certain things, but most of them seem to be a bit harsh apart from the roaring at him bit but id be pretty sure that if the coach is at it with one kid, he is doing it to many - it shouldnt happen but again unfortunately it does sometimes.

its a tricky one, but i think the kids happiness comes first - if he wants to stay, let him there unless you can see its really getting him down and you think he is lying to you.

notasoccermom wrote: »

But I just cant believe the other parents attitude towards the aggression and towards me and his dad, all because we DARED challenge the manager...

Be careful here, challenging the manager of an u-9 team wouldnt go down well with the other parents perhaps and this just makes things worse. if they are giving you the cold shoulder, it maybe seen as that its you who is causing the trouble.

Augme

He's so while he's obviously very young he's not stupid either. It will be very difficult to get him to give up soccer for another sport unless he wants to. Chances are he won't. If he wanted to play Rugby/GAA then chances are he'd already be playing them. Given that it's April I' assuming the season is nearly over? If that's the case I'd hang on until then and in the summer try and sign him up to some local soccer camps if possible, ones run by other clubs obviously. He might meet new friends who will be members of other clubs and then he'll probably be more open to leaving his current one if he knows people already.

jimmycrackcorm

homerjay2005 wrote:

now, the baseline here is very very simple - is he enjoying it or not? that is all that matters here. if he is, then i think you are over reacting. if he is not, then you need to move him. but please please please for the sake of the child dont move him out of football, move him to a club that maybe doesnt have such high expectations as the one he is with, there is plenty of them around - a club with an atmosphere of taking part as opposed to winning.

Op, I have to agree somewhat with this. It sounds like your kid actually enjoys being in the team but you're the one who is being over protective.

If he loves it because his friends are on the team and he doesn't himself feel he is being victimised then let him be.

I've seen my own son progress over the years from not being very fit to being
Skilful simply because kids develop at different stages. It's also a little bit valuable in understanding that life is competitive.

The only thing I'd say is that the manager should be giving him game time and not excluding him completely in a match otherwise it's pointless turning up.

I'm surprised though he hasn't been changed to a team in the club that might be more suited to his pace. In my son's case, kids are changed up and down to different teams depending on their skill levels in the summer break.

nikkibikki

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

If he loves it because his friends are on the team and he doesn't himself feel he is being victimised then let him be.

He might not realise he is being victimised though. He said he would have no friends if he didn't play soccer. So he is getting the message that he should put up with that treatment in order to have friends. For his future happiness and relationships, this isn't a message I would be happy with if it were my child. I would be disgusted if I witnessed this kind of treatment to mine or another kid.

LegacyUser

Initially I was very much on your side OP. Can't stand bullies of any hue but I would issue one small bit of caution, boys (and men) tend to bond by slagging each other. What might strike you as bullying might be something different between the boys themselves.

It's hard to know without seeing it in action but it could be something like that.

Listen to your son when he talks about it, if he's still enjoying it and getting something from it then leave him be, if he's not then look around either for another team or another sport. He's still plenty young to take up loads and loads of sports if soccer isn't for him. (Rugby and rowing in particular favour guys who aren't "skilful" but who will train week-in, week-out from my experience.)

power pants

I would keep him there. He seems to be happy there and if he wasnt you would definitely pick up on it.

When you mentioned that he goes to martial arts and is very good at it, this will keep his confidence up both physically and mentally. Your son might be very thick skinned and not see a problem with the way you think he is being treated

If he ever shows signs of feeling bullied or not enjoying it move him from it asap. Until then let him enjoy himself

CdeC

Hi OP,

It sounds like a very typical soccer team. Lads shouting at each other. Picking on the less talented players.

My advice is not to get too involved. except to try and help your son get better. He is only 9 and sometimes it takes time for coordination and speed and control to work together.
Can he start to do things that will help his soccer?
like a running club or fitness club. his speed will improve and if he's getting to those balls quicker that will be something.

Other thing is,soccer is tough. I grew up playing rugby. Rugby can be better as there is much more diversity on the playing types. As in if you are big and strong or small and quick or anything in-between there is a position that will suit you. Might be worth a try out.

Best of luck and worst case, your son is going to learn about tenacity and hardwork.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies. It does help. Especially seeing the other perspective.

The slagging, the roaring...I get that its part of 'boys being boys' (doesn't mean I agree with it) but I get it. But the intentional exclusion of him from a match was the last straw. The little lad was crying on the sidelines....the heartbreaking thing was - me or his dad couldn't make this match (sick baby, sick dad) - the only one we ever missed. And he didn't play him. The rules of the club state that every child at this level gets a minimum of 15 minutes of play.

this is the one and only time we have ever challenged anything with him.

He has told me he wants to stay and is happy there but as I said in a previous post, he has also said that he would have no friends if he left so I'm torn......but overall I do think he's enjoying it.....

We have planned to put him in two soccer schools this summer - FAI and Samba. Also, my husband works with a guy who is an amazing football player (he's about 19) and he has said he'd do a bit with him at the weekends during the summer also....

So we're gonna be proactive and get him fitter during the summer so he can go back for next season with a fighting chance. Somebody also mentioned kids moving around teams - I think this might happen next season - stronger players move to A team or something like that.

silverharp

^^

whatever else don't put up with him not being played not up to under 12's anyway, I honestly have never seen it and you are paying subs.

Kenny B

Football(and most sports) is tough at all ages especially for the parents, a coach has a certain amount of kids to look after and unless he gets help he's on his own, he needs to be able to be competitive as a losing team will end up losing kids to other local teams, plenty of opinion but little action from many parents.

Parents in this situation, if they don't want to help the coach should stay in their car for training and games. What you don't see won't hurt and your kid won't feed off that, they'll develop a thicker skin which a life lesson.

The kid loves football and may improve, he also may not, it's up to you to help him find his game, whatever sport it is, complaining about the coach rightly or wrongly serves no purpose.

ebbsy

Put him in ano the club,at a lower level than he now.

LegacyUser

Appreciate your feedback Kenny but don't agree with aspects of it...which is fine. We cant all agree...

Excluding one child from a match out of all his peers, having him crying on the sideline and not apologising about it until we had to step in.....I don't think this is appropriate behaviour for a grown man who is in charge of kids. He does have help. He has help from an assistant but really the coach has all the say....so I don't really know how me, as a parent, should just stand aside and allow this to happen? We don't fight all his battles but I thought this one needed to be fought...

We have very intention of helping him up his game...camps, one to one etc...we encourage him at every moment to go out the front with a ball and practice against the wall (if me or dad aren't free....)

anmhi02

I had the same problem with my son who plays gaa. I ended up taking him out of that club and transferring him as his confidence was hitting rock bottom. ..didn't help that mt brother in law was over the team and still kept him on the side line despite texts before matches to make sure he was at the matches! !
To say he has improved physically and mentally since the transfer is a HUGE understatement! ! I've never seen him happier. He does miss playing with his friends but has made more friends with the new club.
It is so heartbreaking to see them so discouraged and basically made an eejit of . My lad is 14. Good luck to ye both x

Flippyfloppy

I agree there's different things to take into consideration, like everyone has before mentioned. But if he is thick skinned.....how lovely is that for him? Who here wouldn't love to not care what people think about them? It's a very good trait to have. I think he's very lucky in that respect. However, of course he should be playing every match, and that needs to be sorted, one way or another, within his current team or through moving teams.

uck51js9zml2yt

I know people are giving different opinions here but as a parent of 2 boys I would say one thing.

OP you need to be a parent in this situation and if you feel he's not the right fit with this team, then move him.
Your son will say he's happy ( as does mine) but you're the adult here and you need to make the decision.
If it were my son in this situation, I'd move him.He'll get over loosing his friends once he's moved.
My eldest plays GAA and also does music which he doesn't like until he gets there!

Teyla Emmagan

That's terrible OP. I would go over the manager's head and speak to the club. That man is not promoting their best interests by treating your son like that. He sounds like a right pig. Is your son also in school with these kids? I would consider taking him out altogether and putting him in a much healthier environment. It can't be good for him being treated like that.

Neon_Lights

Coming from my experience its best not to get involved in confronting the manager, however if the team is good your son will feed off that and it will be rewarding down the line of he does train surrounded by talented players.

It would be a good idea if one of you guys got involved helping with the team, I'm not saying for neopotism now, but clubs are always looking for a hand and you may see a different side of the story. It could lead to a better relationship with the coaches and kids. It also may be a confidence boost to your son.

Football at that age should be about having fun and participation while each year making it slightly more competitive.

oh well , okay

I coach at an u9 level and have done for the last 4 yrs, I also coach at an u7 academy.

Personally I’d find it absolutely disgraceful that any child would be left on the side-line for an entire match. FAI guidelines state that during matches each child (at u9 level) is entitled to 75% playing time, now that’s not always possible if the coach has a large squad but playing time should be even enough among all the players. If a child turns up for training, is well behaved and has paid his fees well then he deserves game time and he deserves to be treated with respect. It’s non-competitive football after all and should be treated as such. How is a child to develop if they don’t get game time ? In my experience they learn a lot more during matches than at training.

I honestly would consider leaving a 9 yr old boy crying on the side line for an entire match as pure bullying.

I’d ask if the club have a child welfare officer and bring your concerns to them. If this doesn’t bring any joy well then I would unfortunately advise you to move him next season.

jigglypuffstuff

OP im no coach in football but I was a martial arts instructor for many years and I would argue that there is a 'culture' attached to competitiveness in the likes of rugby, soccer, hurling football etc, (I also played rugby and basketball for years) Furthermore id probably go as far as to say that the older one gets, the worse this competitiveness gets

If he would be interested in something like TKD, Kickboxing, Karate or something along those lines id believe it to be a far better approach...everyone's treated individually, they progress at their own pace, there is competition that doesn't involve exclusion...but at the same time are awarded the social benefits that arise from participating in any sports..plus gradings are a great confidence booster....Its pretty much a win/win

Im not saying its the solution, but its an option

beauf

Everything "oh well , okay" said above.

The reality is that some teams are all about results. They don't really care about anything else. The coach won't and neither will the parents. Its entirely pointless continuing in that atmosphere unless your child is competitive.

Other teams, perhaps even in the same club will not be. It will be about enjoying the game and getting the most out of the experience. A lot of it is about the personality of the coaches and also the boys on the team. So if its not working I would move the child to a level he will enjoy the game.

Its the same when your an adult. Some people are just no fun to play with regardless of skill levels. Lifes too short to spend it with such people.

freshpopcorn

It's a hard job coaching lids teams from what I've heard coaches generally get giving out for not playing certain kids enough and playing useless kids to much.
My advice would be see how thing work out now and if things don't work out you can move to a different club where your son might be placed on a suitable team.
Just out interest is there any soccer team in school that he could get involved in?

andekwarhola

silverharp wrote: »

take him out and join another club. My son does soccer in MMYFC and that would not be tolerated, nobody is allowed give any player a hard time on or off the pitch. I don't know if you are in Dublin or not but I do tend to find that the clubs in more working class areas tend to have less disciplined kids and some of the coaches are obnoxious fckers ,effing at the kids , threatening not to play them in full earshot of everyone.

That's not really true to be honest, especially these days. I've played Junior football, been involved in it and my kids play now and you get bad coaches, kids and parents everywhere.

My sons play underage football and of all the teams in his league (which encompasses teams from all over South Dublin), the team with the two absolute worst kids for nasty fouling (and coach and parents turning a blind eye) is from one of the best areas in Dublin.

Didn't plough through the thread admittedly but I would advise just to shop around for another club. My son's team has a wide range of abilities and no kid is castigated by the coach at that age. And to be fair, I've not really witnessed it in our league, bar one or two clubs. Fair enough, kids can be harsh to each other at that age but our club crack down on it.

Our club follow the underage guidelines set down by Devine /Doktor about non competitive, inclusive football development for children but from what I can see it varies from club to club. The bigger Schoolboy clubs, in my opinion, are more likely to ignore this to prioritize farming the best kids.

Just shop around for another club if you can. The SDFL or NDFL might be a better bet than DDSL if you're in Dublin. The SDFL for example, doesn't have results or league tables until about U12 level AFAIK.

At that age, kids should be playing for development and fun.

homerjay2005

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's a hard job coaching lids teams from what I've heard coaches generally get giving out for not playing certain kids enough and playing useless kids to much.

this is it - there are 1000s of parents out there who only want their kids to win and want their kids playing at the best level possible.

its easy to blame the coaches but if this club that the OP is taking her son to, is one of them, then you can see it from their side also.

if this club has a B or C team, where winning is not the aim then i suggest moving him to that if playing is more important for him than taking part.