Sales prep for a pony.

eorna

Hi there,
I am just wondering do yards that do sales prep also do them for ponies? I have a pony that needs a good bit of work before I sell him. My daughter has lost interest and has also developed an allergy to horses. He's 12.2hh and wouldn't be that valuable I suppose. So what I really want to know is - would it be worth financially for someone to take him on for maybe 6 weeks or so? Or how does that work ? Or can anyone recommend me how best to sell him? :rolleyes:
Thanks!

silverfox88

Hi Eorna,

It depends - what age is the pony? Does he have any breeding? What have you done with him so far?

Schooling livery is likely around €100p/w. I don't know if you're paying livery currently (as obviously the cost of schooling would offset against the cost of livery that you would be paying anyway) but I'd personally want to be doubling (at a minimum) the cost of the schooling when selling the pony. So it depends on how much you think you could sell him for with schooling, and what you think he would fetch without the schooling.

From a non-financial perspective, a pony that is well-schooled and rideable should be easier to place into a good home as well, so potentially his future would be a bit more secure too!

Ah_Yeah

He could be more valuable than you think Do you have an experienced friend or someone you would trust to give you a fair assessment of whether it's worth putting the time in? He may have a lot of potential just needs some schooling. Safe ponies are worth their weight in gold.

You'll need a child to ride him but plenty of very experienced children out there - I did all my riding as a child/teen on other people's ponies.

Just most important is to have someone experienced you trust and you know wouldn't lead you astray to get schooling livery out of you

eorna

Thanks Silver Fox 88 and Ah Yeah for your input.
He's a 12.2h Welsh Mountain type. Very nice looking pony. He can be very quiet/lazy but then he has thrown a couple of bucks too.:( He bucks every time I ask him to canter on the lunge too.Which worries me a bit. He can also put on the on the brakes when he doesn't want to go where you want him to. Having said that he gives in if you persist with him. Plus he has great jump. We have only done lead rein riding with him , but he has a bit more experience with the previous owner. I don't have him on livery and I paid 600 euros for him. I think he does have potential though, he just needs a good bit of schooling by a competent rider.

Imhof Tank

Sorry if this sounds blunt but IMO your pony has no value at present and 6 weeks of schooling livery which will cost you €600 or so won’t improve his value much beyond the €600 you gave for him.

In your position I would be looking to cut losses and give him away for free to someone competent who could produce him on for sale. If they get him going properly and turn a profit they will have earned it.

silverfox88

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Sorry if this sounds blunt but IMO your pony has no value at present and 6 weeks of schooling livery which will cost you €600 or so won’t improve his value much beyond the €600 you gave for him.

In your position I would be looking to cut losses and give him away for free to someone competent who could produce him on for sale. If they get him going properly and turn a profit they will have earned it.

I don't necessarily agree; if the pony is broken, riding, and jumping and knows all the basics then 6 weeks of consistent riding and potentially a few shows could bring his value up beyond €600! Edited just to say - I've seen a few lead rein Welshy types up for sale for circa 1500/1600 within the last 2 weeks. And these were lead rein ponies that had not done much off the lead, ads stating they would require work to be ridden off the lead. So I feel that it's not entirely accurate to deem the pony as having "no value" with little further information on him.

I certainly think it would be worth looking into getting a competent rider to rider him though - as AhYeah said there are any number of good child/teen riders only dying for something to ride! If you're not in a rush to sell him/part with him it's definitely worth looking into; if you were only going to sell him for a minimal amount/give him away then giving some time to this option won't harm his value anyway!

Ah_Yeah

I also hate to jump on the 'is he in pain' bandwagon (as so many people do when you say ANYTHING about behavioural problems), but I'd recommend getting an Equine Physio up to have a look at his back, just to make sure he's not tight or sore anywhere. And maybe the farrier can just check his feet.

Just the fact that he bucks going into canter and stops dead/refuses to go forward can sometimes be an indicator of a soreness somewhere. It can also be a sign of boldness But just good to rule out the soreness first.

Imhof Tank

silverfox88 wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree; if the pony is broken, riding, and jumping and knows all the basics then 6 weeks of consistent riding and potentially a few shows could bring his value up beyond €600! Edited just to say - I've seen a few lead rein Welshy types up for sale for circa 1500/1600 within the last 2 weeks. And these were lead rein ponies that had not done much off the lead, ads stating they would require work to be ridden off the lead. So I feel that it's not entirely accurate to deem the pony as having "no value" with little further information on him.

I certainly think it would be worth looking into getting a competent rider to rider him though - as AhYeah said there are any number of good child/teen riders only dying for something to ride! If you're not in a rush to sell him/part with him it's definitely worth looking into; if you were only going to sell him for a minimal amount/give him away then giving some time to this option won't harm his value anyway!

Yes anything is possible but I said he has no value “at present”. He was bought cheaply by the OP and has regressed since then. As things stand the pony bucks, stops and hasn’t been ridden off the lead rein by the current owner. 12.2 is over height for IPS lead rein classes also so he wouldn’t be a showing proposition either.

Good safe reliable all-rounder 12.2s are certainly valuable but they generally have verifiable recent form of some sort whether it be hunting, pony club or whatever. OP’s pony won’t have that after 6 weeks schooling and that’s assuming the schooling works out.

Anyway the question was whether it would be worth paying someone for 6 weeks of schooling livery. IMO, starting from where the pony is at today, I would say no. The suggestion of having a child or teen ride him (for free presumably is the suggestion) is fine so long as you are comfortable in their ability. Being a 12.2 you would have to talking about fairly young kids as potential riders and I personally would have concerns about putting a young kid up on a pony known to buck unless they are eg: well known producers – who would generally be charging for their services in the first place.

Ave Sodalis

Imhof Tank wrote:

Yes anything is possible but I said he has no value “at presentâ€. He was bought cheaply by the OP and has regressed since then. As things stand the pony bucks, stops and hasn’t been ridden off the lead rein by the current owner. 12.2 is over height for IPS lead rein classes also so he wouldn’t be a showing proposition either.

Most horses/ponies I know buck going into canter if they haven't cantered in a while. They buck on a lunge where they've never bucked riding. The pony also keeps quits stopping etc if you persist, which is a good sign that it's fixable with consistant riding.

Imhof Tank wrote:

Good safe reliable all-rounder 12.2s are certainly valuable but they generally have verifiable recent form of some sort whether it be hunting, pony club or whatever. OP’s pony won’t have that after 6 weeks schooling and that’s assuming the schooling works out.

I disagree. 6 weeks can break an untouched horse. Absolutely no reason to not to be able to get a bit of basic training and a local competition or two.

Imhof Tank wrote:

Anyway the question was whether it would be worth paying someone for 6 weeks of schooling livery. IMO, starting from where the pony is at today, I would say no. The suggestion of having a child or teen ride him (for free presumably is the suggestion) is fine so long as you are comfortable in their ability. Being a 12.2 you would have to talking about fairly young kids as potential riders and I personally would have concerns about putting a young kid up on a pony known to buck unless they are eg: well known producers – who would generally be charging for their services in the first place.

I would also disagree with this. I'm nearly six foot and have broke and rode 12.2 ponies. There's plenty of light people to do flat schooling, and short people to go over a jump or two. Even if you need to get a teenager to jump it (there's plenty of teenagers competent enough to do this), you can (and with that, should) loose school him to get him used to jumping again. It would absolutely be worth it.

I think if you aimed the pony for a 12.2 jumper/showing/other specific or high level sport, you'd be wasting time. However, a little pony for a kid to have fun on is more than producable in 6 weeks. The suggestion that any broken pony is worth giving away for free is bit over the top.

OP, does the pony have a book?

Imhof Tank

sup_dude wrote: »

a little pony for a kid to have fun on is more than producable in 6 weeks. The suggestion that any broken pony is worth giving away for free is bit over the top.

OK so how much would you pay to produce a fun pony from where this one is now, and how much do you think you could ask for it in 6 weeks time?

OP only gave €600 in the first place and it had been jumping with the previous owner. Do you really think it can be trained up into a €1500 or €2k pony in 6 weeks?

silverfox88

Imhof Tank wrote: »

OK so how much would you pay to produce a fun pony from where this one is now, and how much do you think you could ask for it in 6 weeks time?

OP only gave €600 in the first place and it had been jumping with the previous owner. Do you really think it can be trained up into a €1500 or €2k pony in 6 weeks?

Short answer? Yes. Value depends on the buyer and the type of market you are aiming for.

I think the point we're trying to get across here is that it's definitely worth a shot - whether it be through paid schooling or getting a small adult/teen to ride the pony. I wouldn't just go throwing the baby out with the bathwater and deciding that because the pony might not be worth a massive amount now (which I don't know, never having seen it ridden, seen it move etc etc) it categorically has no hope of being worth anything.

I also agree with sup_dude - I'm 5ft5 and have ridden small ponies in a schooling capacity too.

Edited to add - on the basis of the information provided I do believe that given 6 weeks of consistent riding, assuming no underlying physical issues or major behavioural vices bar the odd buck and the planting (which I have seen more than one stubborn child's pony do out of naughtiness) on a pony with some level of fitness I would say I could reasonably get a pony to a stage where it could be sold for circa the 1.5k mark. I certainly wouldn't see it as some sort of wild fool's errand.

Ave Sodalis

Imhof Tank wrote: »

OK so how much would you pay to produce a fun pony from where this one is now, and how much do you think you could ask for it in 6 weeks time?

OP only gave €600 in the first place and it had been jumping with the previous owner. Do you really think it can be trained up into a €1500 or €2k pony in 6 weeks?

To be honest, I wouldn't pay anything because I would be doing it myself. I have no idea what the going rates are. I've only really worked for people who deal with the owners in times recent enough to count, and tend not to ask what they charge.

Yes, I think it can be. As Silverfox says, provided no serious underlying condition, I can see no real reason why not. We have no idea what the pony did before the OP got it, only that it had experience off the rein. We have no idea when the OP got it. It's only in the last year that prices of horses are starting to go up again. However, a 12.2 pony who has a bit of a jump, can hack out, maybe go to the beach, pop over the odd log/solid fence, has been to a competition or two (even if it's just local)... I can see it making the 1500 mark with the way prices are rising again.

eorna

Thank you all for your great imput. I'm still not sure what to do, but will consider all your suggestions. And to be honest yes I would give him away at this stage. I'm sorry , I didn't mention one thing - he also has had laminitis. We have it under control at the moment and the farrier has said that his feet have improved an awful lot. But this means he can't wear shoes and is sensitive to a hard surface. But in the field or arena he's perfect. So I suppose this lessens his value even more.:rolleyes: Also he's a head tosser. The vet suggested it was an allergy, But I have watched him and he does it when he's frustrated or excited. Doesn't do it to much when ridden to be fair. And no he doesn't have a book. So....anybody fancy a beautiful looking project pony??:P:p:)!!

Ave Sodalis

How bad is the laminitis? Is there no chance of road work? Does he head shake all the time when excited, or only under certain conditions? As in when passing trees, when it's particularly bright etc

Ah_Yeah

Adding in the laminitis (a problem that requires very strict management and a knowledgeable home to ensure it doesn't go downhill quickly) and headshaking, I'm sorry but I wouldn't put a high potential value on your pony at present. I don't think given this information that it would be worth paying for schooling livery as I couldn't see you making your money back.

I would look to get a competent teenager to ride him for a nominal fee, or if he is a potentially nice pony they may be happy to ride him for free if they could compete him. Whatever you do don't advertise him as free to good home as you could potentially get some unsavoury homes interested in taking him.

eorna

Sup dude -his laminitis is fine just as long as he doesn't have grass for most of the year. He's on a bare patch of ground and I can let him out with a grazing muzzle for a gallop around the field with his pal. But no, I don't think you could do road work without special laminitis boots maybe. (Though the previous owner had shoes and hacked alright.) He shakes his head when he sees me coming with his hay,or when he's tied up or made to stand mostly. I hadn't thought of trees - he does have trees in his patch alright. Are you thinking flies?

Ah Yeah - yes I think your right. It wouldn't be worth paying someone to school him, it probably wouldn't be wise advertising him for free, and I wouldn't be happy for a child to buy him as he is.

Having painted him in such a bad light I actually think he's make a nice little pony in the right hands. For instance when we got him first he refused point blank to lunge. It was like he'd never been asked to before. Now with a bit of work he lunges very nicely just using voice control. He's the type of pony who'll try to say he's the boss but after a while he couldn't be bothered and will let you win the argument!


So..hmmmmm -what to do -what to do???? Thanks everyone you have been really helpful anyway.

eorna

........Oh and another thing- he never stops on the lead rein only when off the rein. I've tried riding him but I really feel like a big lump on him !

mystika121

Have you thought of asking a riding school if they would be interested in taking the pony on loan or working livery? Many riding schools have staff / helpers that would be light enough to school the pony and he can then be used on lessons once he improves. This will establish his way of going and give you a better idea of his capabilities.

Riding schools would have the knowledge and facilities to manage the laminitis.

eorna

Thanks Mystika - I did think of asking a riding school alright -it's a good idea. How does working livery work - is there a reduced fee?

mystika121

Hiya, working livery would be at a reduced fee - the pony would be used on lessons.

It would usually apply if the owner wanted to ride, as well as having the pony in the rising school.