Independence Day - Greatest Movie in History?

Cantstandsya

Okay, I’m exaggerating but to me this has always been one of my favourite films.

To me this film has everything you want from a popcorn flick. It’s light, it’s action packed, the message is uplifting, the characters are likeable and the soundtrack is rousing. I was a kid when it came out and I loved it and still love it. I think it (along with Jurassic Park) were my generation’s Star Wars.

Not long after it came out it became cool to hate it. It’s easy to pick apart, the yanks saving the world, the computer virus - delivered by 1996 MacBook - that disables the aliens' ships and, of course, the alcoholic hick who sacrifices himself by piloting an F-18 into the alien weapon (even worse in the original version when he flies his crop duster into the weapon).

I’ve always found the criticism baffling. Roland Emmirich is an unashamedly silly director. He’s never operated under any pretense of making serious movies. He makes big fun romps and there’s no harm in that. I think the nit-picking is misplaced.

More recently I think there’s been a mellowing of the attitude. ID4 lovers seem to have come out of the woodwork, to be holding their hands up and crying out, in one voice, that, yes, we love Independence Day.

So, with the sequel coming out soon, I am wondering what people here think? Do you all hate it, can you not get past the stupid plot contrivances or can you just sit back with your popcorn and enjoy it for what it is?

BoJack Horseman

Why would the aliens bother firing their main weapon?
If the ship is a dozen miles across, just land on a city & destroy it doing so.

Why did the air force think they could tackle a ship as big as Manhattan with a couple dozen planes with 4 x small missiles each?

Why are the aliens using a computer network compatible with MacOS?

Why are Randy Quaid's children Mexican?

Why does his farmer customer present Quaid's son with rotten vegetables?
If the crop is already ruined, there is no point "getting someone else". it's too late anyway.

How does stepping into a tunnels service duct, about 4ft deep save Will Smith's wife, their Reebok toting son & the slo-mo labrador from the inferno?


Yes, this film is great.

Cantstandsya

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Why...

Because movie?

KingBrian2

Yeah brilliant movie.

nix

I'm sorry, did someone call Will Smith like-able?


:pac:

syklops

One of my all time favourite movies.

In the genre of summertime blockbuster popcorn flicks, definitely one of the best. Best ever of all movies? No.

Theres a great video here which talks about how they did the effects in the movie, and much of it is little models, with CGI in other places. If it was made today all effects would have been CGI, and I would bet good money that it would lack much of the oomph.

Cantstandsya

syklops wrote: »

One of my all time favourite movies.

In the genre of summertime blockbuster popcorn flicks, definitely one of the best. Best ever of all movies? No.

Theres a great video here which talks about how they did the effects in the movie, and much of it is little models, with CGI in other places. If it was made today all effects would have been CGI, and I would bet good money that it would lack much of the oomph.

Very good video, thanks for posting.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Okay, I’m exaggerating but to me this has always been one of my favourite films.

To me this film has everything you want from a popcorn flick. It’s light, it’s action packed, the message is uplifting, the characters are likeable and the soundtrack is rousing. I was a kid when it came out and I loved it and still love it. I think it (along with Jurassic Park) were my generation’s Star Wars.

Not long after it came out it became cool to hate it. It’s easy to pick apart, the yanks saving the world, the computer virus - delivered by 1996 MacBook - that disables the aliens' ships and, of course, the alcoholic hick who sacrifices himself by piloting an F-18 into the alien weapon (even worse in the original version when he flies his crop duster into the weapon).

I’ve always found the criticism baffling. Roland Emmirich is an unashamedly silly director. He’s never operated under any pretense of making serious movies. He makes big fun romps and there’s no harm in that. I think the nit-picking is misplaced.

More recently I think there’s been a mellowing of the attitude. ID4 lovers seem to have come out of the woodwork, to be holding their hands up and crying out, in one voice, that, yes, we love Independence Day.

So, with the sequel coming out soon, I am wondering what people here think? Do you all hate it, can you not get past the stupid plot contrivances are can you just sit back with your popcorn and enjoy it for what it is?

If that's what you want in a movie, sure. It's basically one of those so-bad-its-funny movies - a 1960s B-mvie on a 1990s budget. Personally , I prefer something a bit more substantial.

DrumSteve

Itd be my favourite film of all time.

I have watched it so much at this stage that I can quote most of the script. Some real gold in there.

Especially from Judd Hirsch.

10000maniacs

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Why would the aliens bother firing their main weapon?
If the ship is a dozen miles across, just land on a city & destroy it doing so.

Why did the air force think they could tackle a ship as big as Manhattan with a couple dozen planes with 4 x small missiles each?

Why are the aliens using a computer network compatible with MacOS?

Why are Randy Quaid's children Mexican?

Why does his farmer customer present Quaid's son with rotten vegetables?
If the crop is already ruined, there is no point "getting someone else". it's too late anyway.

How does stepping into a tunnels service duct, about 4ft deep save Will Smith's wife, their Reebok toting son & the slo-mo labrador from the inferno?
Yes, this film is great.

And why is there a single point of failure in the aliens computer network, and why is Jeff Goldblum able to infiltrate his virus so seamlessly to exploit it? Stupid storyline.

letsseehere14

It's great entertainment. Like the OP I grew up on it. One of my first mega summer blockbusters.
If you're the type of person to judge every movie on iron clad logic or compare it to the classical greats then I'm sorry but all your pretentious faux sophistication shows is that you don't get what this was supposed to be/and ultimately is. Pure, unadulterated feel good, action!
It is, in my book, one of the greats. Followed by starship troopers, one of my all time favourite films. For different reasons of course. I have in my list of favs, films considered sophisticated and great by the 'educated masses' but this for me still ranks up there with them, just in a different genre.

beauf

Its a better than average modern day B movie with a big budget. A summer cheesy blockbuster. Nothing more than that.

Cantstandsya wrote: »

...I think it (along with Jurassic Park) were my generation’s Star Wars.,.

It might have been a huge deal for you. But for most people its a forgettable movie. Even if you don't agree with it, its had almost no cultural impact, or in cinema.

Something like SW was like Private Ryan, Angry birds, the xbox, and Kim Kardasian and a new iPhone all rolled into the one event.

Arghus

I watched this last Independence Day, appropriately enough. I was gearing up for a hate-watch, but I actually found myself enjoying it and not in a HAHAHA ironic kind of way - well in places, yes - but it won me over all over again and I had to concede that it was a better movie than I'd let myself into believing that it really was.

It's engaging: I never felt like I didn't wholly care. Maybe there are too many characters cluttering it all up, but those that are interesting are fleshed out a fair bit and played by good actors. And, I think it still holds up effects wise, 70-80% of the time anyway - The Alien attacks are still unnerving and wouldn't make into a movie of today. And most of the model work and practical stuff is still cool to look at, even if it isn't always totally convincing; there's a thrill in knowing that someone, somewhere actually built those models and trickery: it's tactile and romantic,and at least a bit more human than what you see today, which is just the result of processors workin' real, real hard.

Having said all that, I can understand the hate. It is a damn cheesy and jingoistic movie, with plenty of stooopid moments that take you right out of it: That speech deserves all the flak it gets; my toes were curling so hard in cringeful terror throughout it that I'm sure they almost snapped. Yeah, it's a silly blockbuster, but a bit of good taste never hurt any film. I think that's what most inspired the negative feelings towards the film: it's relentless, brainless, championing of team USA. It should be interesting to see how they deal in the sequel with the fact of the existence of the rest of the world being harder and harder to ignore these days. Not that such concerns mattered much in the nineties, when you could just churn out entertainment that posited the greatest goddamned superpower in the world right at the centre of the universe, no real questions asked. Hey, we bet the Russians! What else have ya got, ALIENS?.. Then, we'll whip 'em too! I think the worldview of the film dates it a lot and that helped to leave memories of it in a very disregarded state a decade ago. Nothing dates faster than whatever was recently in. But eventually things always turn around. So to look back in the noughties at Independence Day was like looking back at an extremely naff Pre-911 version of the world. However, twenty years is enough time for nostalgia to kick in and for us all to get in on that ID4 buzz again.

So, yeah, for all it's faults: it's a good film. But let's get real here: No Generational Star Wars Comparisons please. Firstly, every generation doesn't have a Star Wars. That's because Stars Wars was a one time only deal. It changed the movie making business AND it changed popular culture .At the same time. Nothing will ever replicate that, it's one of the foundational texts of popular cinema/culture and no movie, no matter how huge, that comes out today, or tomorrow, is ever going to have as much influence as it's had or will continue to have. I'm a ninties kid too and I can remember Independence day being a gigantic hit, but it didn't change my life. I think Star Wars, still, had as big an influence on people of my age, to be honest.

Kermit.de.frog

Political and sh*te movie. "Jews save the world" etc. Spare us.

Cantstandsya

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Political and sh*te movie. "Jews save the world" etc. Spare us.

Well this just took a strange turn.

So is something political when any non-Christian/white person saves the world or only when a Jew plays a role in saving it?

silverharp

I normally judge a movie based on what its like watching it at the time. it was a very good movie to see first time and when looking at it I was not pulled out of it by any of the criticisms you see later on. personally the bit that bugs me most about that movie now is the aliens using the satellites , why would they need to? it was only a clock countdown and secondly an alien fleet that big could have just sent their own beacons out to relay messages. its not Die Hard in terms of re-watchabilty but I must have watched it 5 or 6 times over the years.

beauf

Its a mindless action sc-fi disaster flick. I don't feel the need to over analyse it. I ennjoy it when its on.

Someone mentioned StarShip troopers. I think that a much better crafted movie.

Dirty Dingus McGee

It's good fun.I always watch it anytime it appears on TV.

The_Valeyard

Best fake president speech of all time.

It's terrible. What's wrong you people.

Frynge

This film and Armageddon are brilliant as long as you watch them as comedies.

Tony EH

An stupid film, with characters that are tedious. Full of desperate attempts at comedy, shamefully pompous jingoism and a woeful story line that's merely a rip off of 'War of the Worlds', that's neither compelling or funny.

The only thing that was any use were the decent special effects, which were good for the day.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Political and sh*te movie. "Jews save the world" etc. Spare us.

Jews eh, I knew it was them that...

Wait, what?

syklops

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's terrible. What's wrong you people.

I think the question is what's wrong with you?

briany

I saw it in the cinema and liked it a lot. It's not a cerebral film, but it has a decent amount of heart, which is why I think people still talk about it and there's a sequel coming out 20 years after the fact. It's nothing to do with it being a Will Smith vehicle anyway as he was also in Wild Wild West and I think everybody is still trying to forget that one.

Elessar

I agree OP it is IMO one of the greatest summer blockbusters ever made. I thoroughly enjoy it every time its on. It's no shawshank redemption but it was never meant to be. Entertaining and highly enjoyable.

I'd advise a watch of the below critique on youtube, it's quite in depth but very thought provoking. Some very good points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcma0bKjJlY

Antar Bolaeisk

As yes, the 90s when Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay made great films.

I loved Independence Day when it came out, I even had an alien from it (probably still do in a box somewhere). I still love it today.

Duggy747

Used to love watching this with my mates as we would have a great laugh with it.

Watched it last year on my own on the plane over to America but could barely stick it with the awful dialogue, it's definitely more of a film I'd enjoy watching with other people........and drink. I winced every time Bill Pullman opened his mouth.

I'll watch the sequel though for nostalgia and especially if Goldblum has a substantial enough role. :pac:

But for 90's corny disaster films, Armageddon is the one that wins out for me.

Duggy747

Duggy747 wrote: »

Used to love watching this with my mates as we would have a great laugh with it.

Watched it last year on my own on the plane over to America but could barely stick it with the awful dialogue, it's definitely more of a film I'd enjoy watching with other people........and drink. I winced every time Bill Pullman opened his mouth.

I'll watch the sequel though for nostalgia and especially if Goldblum has a substantial enough role. :pac:

But for 90's corny disaster films, Armageddon is the one that wins out for me.

I'll never forget Roger Ebert's review of that film, "The movie is an assault on the eyes, the ears, the brain, common sense and the human desire to be entertained."

Dirty Dingus McGee

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll never forget Roger Ebert's review of that film, "The movie is an assault on the eyes, the ears, the brain, common sense and the human desire to be entertained."

It's a great review alright.

The film is pure sh1te but I still found it to be reasonably entertaining.

razorblunt

Brilliant movie, for this reason alone:

Will Smith's wife: "I'm a dancer"
1st Lady (who I had a 'thing' for): "Oooh ballet?"
WSW: "... exotic"
razorblunt: "what the hell is an exotic dancer?"

In a packed cinema sitting alongside my Mam, Dad and sister.

Mister Vain

It's extremely flawed but hugely entertaining.

_Kaiser_

I dunno.. I think what we have here is a thread where many people are criticising the film for lacking something it was never meant to be

It was a huge special-effects laden sci-fi action comedy blockbuster.. one of those films that you leave your brain at the door and just go enjoy the ride. On that level it succeeds brilliantly and even today the effects hold up well. Sure the dialogue is cheesy and "Go USA!!" but again it never pretended to be anything more than popcorn entertainment.

I still watch it every now and then and I'm hoping the sequel doesn't make the mistake of going all "dark and gritty" on us, but from what I've seen it looks pretty good!

I don't know... next thing we'll be giving out that Predator wasn't faithful to military protocols or something. Not every film can be <insert favourite "hmm..that made me think" movie here> and honestly, nor should it be!

Oasis1974

Sorry Independence Day is downright awful. Cheesy and cornball are few words that spring to mind.

Wedwood

Apart from being a terrific movie, Independance Day gave us many great classic lines such as:

Will Smith - "Now that's what I call a close encounter !"

Goldblum's mate as he realises he need to get out of New York - "I need to call my mother and my lawyer. Ah forget the lawyer."

Goldblum's mate realising the aliens are about to 'checkmate' - "Oh my Gawd, Oh my GAAAAAAAWWWWWWWDDDDDDD !"

Alien abduction victim Randy Quaid to the aliens - "hello boys, I'm back !"

Alien response to President Pullman who asks what they want from us - "Die"

If you quote the lines of a movie, it's a classic !!!!

Sugarlumps

Average to awful film.

Zubeneschamali

I disliked this movie when it came out, because it was completely unoriginal, aggressively stupid and gratingly jingoistic.

But one of my favourite movies of recent years was Pacific Rim, which is also derivative, stupid and even has a similar rallying speech.

Not sure why Pacific Rim does it for me and ID4 did not, but I'm not planning to watch it again to find out.

Mr.Nice Guy

I liked this movie when I first saw it but I don't think it holds up well today, for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

The aliens were built up well but in the climax of the film they are disappointing antagonists.

syklops

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I liked this movie when I first saw it but I don't think it holds up well today, for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

I think it holds up just fine today. For what reasons do you think it doesn't? The effects now are as good and in some ways better than much of what you see today. The marriage of FX and CGI compliment each other. If it was filmed today so much more of it would be CGI and would be less striking.

GAAman

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I disliked this movie when it came out, because it was completely unoriginal, aggressively stupid and gratingly jingoistic.

But one of my favourite movies of recent years was Pacific Rim, which is also derivative, stupid and even has a similar rallying speech.

Not sure why Pacific Rim does it for me and ID4 did not, but I'm not planning to watch it again to find out.

Because Pacific Rim has giant robots, and you want a giant robot.

I know this because

I WANT A GIANT ROBOT!!![\SPOILER]

Zubeneschamali

GAAman wrote: »

Because Pacific Rim has giant robots, and you want a giant robot.

I am not sure that captures it entirely.

But perhaps if we add that it has giant robots rocket-punching interdimensional dinosaurs, the superiority of Pacific Rim's spectacular stupidity to the relatively humdrum dumbness in ID4 is clearer.

Mr.Nice Guy

syklops wrote: »

I think it holds up just fine today. For what reasons do you think it doesn't? The effects now are as good and in some ways better than much of what you see today. The marriage of FX and CGI compliment each other. If it was filmed today so much more of it would be CGI and would be less striking.

People are a lot more savvy these days when it comes to technology than when that film came out. In 1996 a lot of homes wouldn't have even had computers. Back then people were more willing to buy Jeff Goldblum figuring out a way to defeat the aliens than would be the case today.

I would agree the effects holds up well overall.

Elemonator

Didn't expect to see so many positive posts on this movie. Perhaps it is time for another viewing :pac:

Greys0n

it's strange the aliens invade only US

syklops

Greys0n wrote: »

it's strange the aliens invade only US

They didn't.

syklops

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

People are a lot more savvy these days when it comes to technology than when that film came out. In 1996 a lot of homes wouldn't have even had computers. Back then people were more willing to buy Jeff Goldblum figuring out a way to defeat the aliens than would be the case today.

I would agree the effects holds up well overall.

Surely people being more savvy with technology would mean they would be more likely to accept Jeff Goldblum finding a flaw in the aliens system?

Fysh

syklops wrote: »

Surely people being more savvy with technology would mean they would be more likely to accept Jeff Goldblum finding a flaw in the aliens system?

People are more aware of the existence of fundamentally different and incompatible computer systems, so if they thought about it (arguably the biggest stumbling block when talking about a popcorn spectacle film like Independence Day) they'd probably find the idea of Goldblum being able to write an exploit for an OS developed by aliens, that needs to run on hardware about which he knows nothing and be delivered using a protocol and interface he has never seen before, to be a bit far-fetched.

On the other hand, we're in the era of the CSI "Enhance" button so who knows...

briany

Fysh wrote: »

People are more aware of the existence of fundamentally different and incompatible computer systems, so if they thought about it (arguably the biggest stumbling block when talking about a popcorn spectacle film like Independence Day) they'd probably find the idea of Goldblum being able to write an exploit for an OS developed by aliens, that needs to run on hardware about which he knows nothing and be delivered using a protocol and interface he has never seen before, to be a bit far-fetched.

On the other hand, we're in the era of the CSI "Enhance" button so who knows...

Here's what the screenwriter of the film had to say,

Sure enough, the screenwriter had an explanation. “Okay: what Jeff Goldblum’s character discovered was that the programming structure of the alien ship was a binary code,” Devlin replied. “And as any beginning programmer can tell you, binary code is a series of ones and zeroes. What Goldblum’s character did was turn the ones into zeroes and the zeroes into ones, effectively reversing the code that was sent.”

I'm sure there's a million holes in that explanation, but fair play for at least having a go.

Mr. teddywinkles

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Why would the aliens bother firing their main weapon?
If the ship is a dozen miles across, just land on a city & destroy it doing so.

Why did the air force think they could tackle a ship as big as Manhattan with a couple dozen planes with 4 x small missiles each?

Why are the aliens using a computer network compatible with MacOS?

Why are Randy Quaid's children Mexican?

Why does his farmer customer present Quaid's son with rotten vegetables?
If the crop is already ruined, there is no point "getting someone else". it's too late anyway.

How does stepping into a tunnels service duct, about 4ft deep save Will Smith's wife, their Reebok toting son & the slo-mo labrador from the inferno?


Yes, this film is great.

Point by point.
1
Levelling the city by crushing it with gaint spaceship although would be cool looking on screen seems a bit primitive a method for an advanced alien race to use. Also where is the surprise attack. How long would it take to crush a whole city. All inhabitants would have left by the time its crushed

2
Do amrams not have massive firepower. They did use nukes eventually but last resort. Also maybe there hoping for a star wars scenario like the death star oh wait that's what happened
3
Its the 90s no one knew fook all about networks and operating systems
4
Are they Mexican or just very tanned.

5
Maybe its from an old crop he didn't spray.

6
If you cant explain it just say the aliens done it

Mr. teddywinkles

Wedwood wrote: »

Apart from being a terrific movie, Independance Day gave us many great classic lines such as:

Will Smith - "Now that's what I call a close encounter !"

Goldblum's mate as he realises he need to get out of New York - "I need to call my mother and my lawyer. Ah forget the lawyer."

Goldblum's mate realising the aliens are about to 'checkmate' - "Oh my Gawd, Oh my GAAAAAAAWWWWWWWDDDDDDD !"

Alien abduction victim Randy Quaid to the aliens - "hello boys, I'm back !"

Alien response to President Pullman who asks what they want from us - "Die"

If you quote the lines of a movie, it's a classic !!!!

Close encounter line is from aliens

briany

My favourite exchange,

Alien (speaking through the scientist): "Releeease....meeeeeee"

President: "Can there be a peace between us?"

Alien: "Peace.... No peace."

President : "What is it you want us to do?"

Alien : "DIE. DIIIEEEE"

thebostoncrab

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Close encounter line is from aliens

Nope, Smith says it after punching an alien in the face and gives the "Welcome to Earth" line.