Bullied at work

PooBal

Hi

Hoping someone can help. Just before Christmas I was being bullied by my manger for several weeks, it got so bad I had to go out on sick leave. The day I went sick I reported my manager to HR for bullying, HR said they would investagae and would be in contact in due course

By the 11th of February I still hadn't heard anything back from HR so I felt they where not taking the complaint seriously so had no option to leave.

When I emailed the same HR person and told them I wasn't returning to work. They where only too happy to accept even though they knew I was being bullied. I informed my HR rep that I still wanted the complaint investagated. He informed me they where still investigating and I would have an outcome by the end of the week.

By the end of the week all I had received was a letter confirming my resignation. To date I haven't received a copy or resolution to the complaint.

Any suggestions on what I should do? Is it illegal for a
company not to investigate bullying complaints.

Thanks you.

davo10

Have you left your employment?

Avatar MIA

Google constructive dismissal and citizens advice. Copy and paste not working for me on the phone.

It's complex and a long road...

L.Jenkins

I would recommend seeking Legal Advice from a Solicitor.

_Brian

I would expect this is fairly cut and dry...

As an employee you were out sick and had made a complaint about bullying in the workplace, the company gave a commitment to investigate as they have a responsibility to do.

The company seemed to be dragging their feet, or could have been waiting on you to return to work in full health to progress things.

You decided they weren't taking things seriously so had no option but to leave, and by your description just resigned.

As you are no longer an employee the investigation into this case will be dropped. And even if it were to progress against the remaining employee you - as a person with no connection to the company have ni right to information about the case being progressed.

By resigning as you described above you've left yourself with no real avenue to peruse.

Constructive dismissal will be thrown about by lots of people but there are very specific conditions to be met before being eligible to take such a case. The primary point being that while you were still an employee did you bring your complaint fully through the correct process affording the company options to remedy things. So, when you were unhappy with the investigation did you make an appeal to senior management regarding its progress, did you ask for reasoning behind the slow progress and then try and work with the company to progress things quicker..

Constructive dismissal does happen, but to take a case against a former employer you would need to have a paper trail of evidence showing that you as an employee tried every single avenue to rectify things and only then were left with no option but to resign.

My advice is put this episode behind you and move onto your next job without bringing the baggage of this event with you.

PooBal

davo10 wrote: »

Have you left your employment?

Hi I have left my job as she was making my life unbeatable.

PooBal

Thanks for the advice. I had reported them to the workplace relations commissioner a few weeks ago. Got a letter today from them. They are going to carry out an investigation for me.

Cheers

_Brian wrote: »

I would expect this is fairly cut and dry...

As an employee you were out sick and had made a complaint about bullying in the workplace, the company gave a commitment to investigate as they have a responsibility to do.

The company seemed to be dragging their feet, or could have been waiting on you to return to work in full health to progress things.

You decided they weren't taking things seriously so had no option but to leave, and by your description just resigned.

As you are no longer an employee the investigation into this case will be dropped. And even if it were to progress against the remaining employee you - as a person with no connection to the company have ni right to information about the case being progressed.

By resigning as you described above you've left yourself with no real avenue to peruse.

Constructive dismissal will be thrown about by lots of people but there are very specific conditions to be met before being eligible to take such a case. The primary point being that while you were still an employee did you bring your complaint fully through the correct process affording the company options to remedy things. So, when you were unhappy with the investigation did you make an appeal to senior management regarding its progress, did you ask for reasoning behind the slow progress and then try and work with the company to progress things quicker..

Constructive dismissal does happen, but to take a case against a former employer you would need to have a paper trail of evidence showing that you as an employee tried every single avenue to rectify things and only then were left with no option but to resign.

My advice is put this episode behind you and move onto your next job without bringing the baggage of this event with you.

_Brian

PooBal wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I had reported them to the workplace relations commissioner a few weeks ago. Got a letter today from them. They are going to carry out an investigation for me.

Cheers

Happy days..

Try not to dwell on it and move on with your life leaving the bully behind..

livedadream

as a HR professional the two scariest phrases after audit are: out sick, bullying.

its a nightmare and it is serious cause for concern, they should have taken action and the WRC will investigate and hopeful be able to sort it out for you.

Wanderer2010

livedadream wrote: »

as a HR professional the two scariest phrases after audit are: out sick, bullying.

its a nightmare and it is serious cause for concern, they should have taken action and the WRC will investigate and hopeful be able to sort it out for you.

Can I ask how do you deal with allegations of bullying by staff against senior managers etc? I know you say its a HRs worst nightmare but in my own experience HR are out to protect the company at all costs and will often try to twist the situation so that the person is too sensitive, taking up things wrong etc and if the person doesn't have a witness I have seen them torn to shreds over this. In short, in all the years I have been working I have never seen a boss who is accused of bullying ever get sacked or even get a warning. Its ALWAYS the employee who ends up suffering and in many cases leaving.

That's only my experience though, I would be interested in other HR perspectives.

livedadream

in advance sorry for the long post and i get a bit ranty towards the middle but its been along day and stuff like this is my biggest bug bear.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Can I ask how do you deal with allegations of bullying by staff against senior managers etc? I know you say its a HRs worst nightmare

sorry if i wasn't clear, if a colleague of mine reports to me saying they are signed off work on medical sick leave and that it is due to stress due to workplace bullying then i calmly walk to the toilet throw up and start looking for a new job ,

if it has reached that level i have ****ed up, if you as an employee or colleague of mine are so battered down at work that you are unable to attend and the thought of you attending work makes you (honestly medically) unwell, the organisation has faltered by not during their duty to take reasonable care. i means ive not noticed the warning signs and your managers or colleagues have not noticed the warning signs. It means that you are seriously unwell, this is not something I or most good HR managers take lightly, for a Doctor to sign someone off work with stress or medical leave due to bullying it takes a HELL of a lot for that note to come in the door

(a cavat : yes i accept that some doctors are buddies and will write notes but i am taking this as an honest to god case of medical sick leave)

but in my own experience HR are out to protect the company at all costs and will often try to twist the situation

look i'm not going to apologise for other HR people, there are some good some bad the same in any industry. yes we are there to protect the company, but form what? from its most vital asset? the people doing the work, come on now... common sense here most good companies have realised this by now and are at least trying.

are there times when someone has complained of bullying to me or a colleague and ive thought they are being too sensitive:

yes. it happens some people are too sensitive.

are there times when i have been sitting at my desk waiting for a complaint to be made so i can hang the person who is the bully

yes

are their times when a complaint has been made that i personally disagree with yes

BUT you still have to be impartial.

if my best friend and my worst enemy at work both companied each other for bullying they would both be treated the same way.

I and my colleagues are trained to investigate these things, we are not random people who decided one day to work in HR because we like wearing power suits and playing with money and/or peoples emotions.

We are trained, qualified and trained again in how and when to deal with stuff, i accept that some organisation have HR people who are HR in the lose sense of the word,ie: i do payroll and make sure everyones nice to each other and we have biscuits in the break room,

im not that person and either are the people on my team, I have a masters in Organisational Psychology, a HDip in Human Resources Management, I am CIPD qualified (i have to attend lectures and do competency based interviews to keep this qualification). we are the real deal.

There are rules, laws, and guidance on how to investigate these things. If they are not followed you are in the **** for want of a better phrase.

People have a poor view of HR because of people like the OP's Hr reps, who i can only assume are unaware of their responsibilities.

Yes some people are too sensitive and you have to explain that what they take as bullying is in fact not. That sometimes people are mean and that people dont have to play fair or nice in work, the workplace is not primary school, everyone doesnt have to get invited to Jonny birthday party, being left out isnt bully not everyone has to like you, harsh but the truth.


I have worked in organisations where senior managers have been re-trained in how to deal with staff, i have NEVER seen a junior member of staff be punished for complaining of bullying once it is done the right way, unfortunately in general Irish people in the workplace cant keep a secret and decide Johns bullying me im going to tell everyone except HR and then let them be the last to find out.

Please bear in mind that if you are being bullied and need help, there are ways to get help the right way.

and keep in mind that warnings and disciplinary action is private and confidential so you would never know if I eat the face of John in private and put him in a PIP (performance improvement plan) or if i'm managing him out (this can take up to a year or so) because there's been so many complaints.

I tried to look up the stats on the CIPD Website but i cant find them, but they are low, something like under 30% for first time offenders being sacked due to a complaint of proven bullying. its rare but it happens, in general a good chat with both parties, an adult conversation about what's expected and its all resolved. (best practice that is) in real life people are petty and half the organisation will know about it before i even have the minutes typed up.

sorry for the uber long post, but look its this or sit in on a disciplinary for someone sticking chewing gum under their desk for the millionth time.

Mrs OBumble

livedadream wrote: »

are there times when i have been sitting at my desk waiting for a complaint to be made so i can hang the person who is the bully

.....

I have worked in organisations where senior managers have been re-trained in how to deal with staff ....unfortunately in general Irish people in the workplace cant keep a secret and decide Johns bullying me im going to tell everyone except HR and then let them be the last to find out.

...

warnings and disciplinary action is private and confidential so you would never know if I eat the face of John in private and put him in a PIP (performance improvement plan) or if i'm managing him out (this can take up to a year or so) because there's been so many complaints.

... sorry for the uber long post, but look its this or sit in on a disciplinary for someone sticking chewing gum under their desk for the millionth time.

I think this is a classic post - one of the best I've ever read (and I love the reason you wrote it).

When I was a union delegate, union membership rates in a team rose from about 5% to 95% within one week. Someone from the HR team casually let me know that there was a team where this had happened, and that they were expecting to be kept busy. I knew without saying which team it was, and was able to give people even more encouragement to officially report their issues. But still, it wasn't until some people actually did report that HR were able to start actively managing the problem employee (ie the team manager). And most people thought that nothing was ever done about it, because from the outside it wasn't visible that this manager got both a written warning and a PIP, and was eventually restructured out.

And in this case, HR were absolutely protecting the company - but from damage inflicted by an incompetent manager.


Where things can be different is in owner-operated companies, where trained HR staff are rare, and their power levels are different. It only takes on really good HR person to change a tiger - but the tiger has to want to change!

Wanderer2010

@liveaDream, thanks for sharing that, Its interesting to hear another viewpoint on the whole HR procedure from a neutral third party. I can only go on my own experiences dealing with HR people and for the most part, I found them not only unhelpful but actively discouraging employees from making any complaints and I never witnessed any bullying managers change their behaviour. But I'm sure plenty of decent HR people exist.

livedadream

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I found them not only unhelpful but actively discouraging employees from making any complaints and I never witnessed any bullying managers change their behaviour. But I'm sure plenty of decent HR people exist.

thanks, like i said the people you are describing are not HR professionals. they may be responsible for a HR function ie training, payroll, induction but that doesnt make them Her professionals. is a massage therapist a GP? no, they do similar things ie make you feel better when you hurt but one is significantly more qualified.

I think this is a classic post - one of the best I've ever read (and I love the reason you wrote it).

thanks Ms O bumble.

It happens all the time, as HR professionals we are competing with people who are responsible for HR functions in a business but are not HR trained. it drives me demented to hear about people saying oh i reported it to HR and they did nothing or I reported it to HR and they laughed and told me not to be so sensitive. these are not HR professionals.

To the OP:
unfortunately you have shot yourself in the foot here:


While i dont doubt that your HR team might not be the best, they may have been leaving you alone as you were signed off work sick.

You handed in your notice and they confirmed your resignation, they have no further obligation to investigate, if they are good they will but you like a previous poster said, you are no longer an employee and are not entitled to any further information regarding the complaint.

Just before Christmas I was being bullied by my manger for several weeks, it got so bad I had to go out on sick leave. The day I went sick I reported my manager to HR for bullying, HR said they would investigate and would be in contact in due course

unfortunately you should have made an official complaint to HR before going out sick. you didnt give them the opportunity to resolve or investigate the issue.

By the 11th of February I still hadn't heard anything back from HR so I felt they where not taking the complaint seriously so had no option to leave.

without making excuses for your HR team, January is hell for HR teams and one of our busiest times.

also in regards to them not following up and contacting you:
From my experience if someone is out sick on stress leave (which is what you are essentially describing) i wouldn't make one phone call to you to ask you about it for fear of claims of harassment. Its a very very serious complaint work related stress.
I would NEVER call an employee who was out of doctor certified stress leave, unless completely necessary.

When I emailed the same HR person and told them I wasn't returning to work. They where only too happy to accept even though they knew I was being bullied.

they didnt know you were being bullied, you had at this stage only alleged you were being bullied, it hadn't been investigated or proven at this stage. you have to try to see if from all sides here, i understand its upsetting and obviously has deeply affected you to the point of being incapable of attending work but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I informed my HR rep that I still wanted the complaint investigated. He informed me they where still investigating and I would have an outcome by the end of the week.

this is poor practice, they cant investigate without you, as you would need to attend to give a statement etc.

By the end of the week all I had received was a letter confirming my resignation. To date I haven't received a copy or resolution to the complaint.

you wont either, you are no longer an employee, they have had all their Christmases come at once, you made an unofficial complaint, while out on sick leave, didnt produce evidence or support for the claim, they are properly delighted that they dont have to piss more people off by dragging them in asking what was going on.

Any suggestions on what I should do? Is it illegal for a
company not to investigate bullying complaints.

no not illegal as you dont work there anymore, its poor practice, but not illegal.

my suggestion is start looking for a new job and stop thinking about it if you can. you options had you made an official complaint were constructive dismissal, resolution of the matter, a proper investigation etc etc. unfortunately and look it sucks but you did shoot yourself in the foot by not staying in work or by not making the complaint before leaving.
The WRC will see it as, you went out sick, you didnt make the company aware before you went out, they arnt expected to be psychic so would have had no opportunity to assist you to resolve the matter.