Rugby 2-4-2 formation

seanm187

Hi guys.
In the42.ie today there is an interview with Keith Earls discussing the Penney/Pat Lam southern hemisphere gameplan, and he mentioned a 2-4-2 formation. How does that work?

"Connacht are playing some of the most attractive attacking rugby in Ireland at present, with much of their phase play echoing what Munster looked to do under Penney.
The set-piece power plays and strike moves may be different, but Earls recognises the shape Connacht utilise in phase play.
“It’s been impressive,” says Earls of Connacht’s approach. “It’s high-risk, but they are pulling it off.
“It’s the same game plan Rob Penney brought in to us, the two-four-two, and obviously we didn’t take to it as well as Connacht. It’s obviously good to the eye.”"

CIARAN_BOYLE

seanm187 wrote: »

Hi guys.
In the42.ie today there is an interview with Keith Earls discussing the Penney/Pat Lam southern hemisphere gameplan, and he mentioned a 2-4-2 formation. How does that work?

"Connacht are playing some of the most attractive attacking rugby in Ireland at present, with much of their phase play echoing what Munster looked to do under Penney.
The set-piece power plays and strike moves may be different, but Earls recognises the shape Connacht utilise in phase play.
“It’s been impressive,” says Earls of Connacht’s approach. “It’s high-risk, but they are pulling it off.
“It’s the same game plan Rob Penney brought in to us, the two-four-two, and obviously we didn’t take to it as well as Connacht. It’s obviously good to the eye.”"

Well what munster used to do under Penney was two forwards on each wing and four at the ruck.

FrannoFan

seanm187 wrote: »

Hi guys.
In the42.ie today there is an interview with Keith Earls discussing the Penney/Pat Lam southern hemisphere gameplan, and he mentioned a 2-4-2 formation. How does that work?

"Connacht are playing some of the most attractive attacking rugby in Ireland at present, with much of their phase play echoing what Munster looked to do under Penney.
The set-piece power plays and strike moves may be different, but Earls recognises the shape Connacht utilise in phase play.
“It’s been impressive,” says Earls of Connacht’s approach. “It’s high-risk, but they are pulling it off.
“It’s the same game plan Rob Penney brought in to us, the two-four-two, and obviously we didn’t take to it as well as Connacht. It’s obviously good to the eye.”"

it refers to how you distribute your forwards across the pitch. 2 wide on each flank and 4 in the middle. some use 3 in the middle with a roaming 7. ensures you have width and players to resource the breakdown. Requires confidence/desire to pass across the pitch and play with width. didn't work for munster as the middle pod has to be able to pass and wide players need to be incisive and comfortable running in space.

generally a more attractive style when done right. Problem is if you are static in midfield you just shovel to the wing and go no where or get hit behind gain line.

FrannoFan

FrannoFan wrote: »

it refers to how you distribute your forwards across the pitch. 2 wide on each flank and 4 in the middle. some use 3 in the middle with a roaming 7. ensures you have width and players to resource the breakdown. Requires confidence/desire to pass across the pitch and play with width. didn't work for munster as the middle pod has to be able to pass and wide players need to be incisive and comfortable running in space.

generally a more attractive style when done right. Problem is if you are static in midfield you just shovel to the wing and go no where or get hit behind gain line.

Could see Connacht doing this against Grenoble

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Could see Connacht doing this against Grenoble

Yep fast line speed in defence causes this attack problems, need a decent 10 to keep them honest with a couple of chips over the top

seanm187

FrannoFan wrote: »

it refers to how you distribute your forwards across the pitch. 2 wide on each flank and 4 in the middle. some use 3 in the middle with a roaming 7. ensures you have width and players to resource the breakdown. Requires confidence/desire to pass across the pitch and play with width. didn't work for munster as the middle pod has to be able to pass and wide players need to be incisive and comfortable running in space.

generally a more attractive style when done right. Problem is if you are static in midfield you just shovel to the wing and go no where or get hit behind gain line.

How does the backline align itself relative to the forwards?
Are they interspersed between them or are they aligned more as a second line behind the line of forwards?

FrannoFan

seanm187 wrote: »

How does the backline align itself relative to the forwards?
Are they interspersed between them or are they aligned more as a second line behind the line of forwards?

Depends. usually a first receiver(the 10 or any back) feeds the forward pod of 4. they can crash it up, play a pop on to an assist forward or play a backdoor pass out to the centers. wings (and other forwards) wide out.

not usually two lines but backs are deeper to allow for the back door option. if the backs are too deep the forward pod wouldn't work as decoy to draw defenders. (see it with some teams where they screen the forwards but it is so deep it doesn't hold and defenders and is pointless)

FrannoFan

Analysis: Connacht's 2-4-2 a symbol of their collective drive under Lam http://the42.ie/2721781

seanm187

Pretty good analysis as always from Murray Kinsella.
Its a pity that the other provinces dont play this style as its less impact orientated.
Since in general Irish teams are not as big physically as other countries it would seem to be a good fit.

The World Cup pool match and 6Ns games against France really highlighted the issue of trying to go toe-to-toe against the bigger sized teams..

Kirk Van Houten

seanm187 wrote:

Pretty good analysis as always from Murray Kinsella. Its a pity that the other provinces dont play this style as its less impact orientated. Since in general Irish teams are not as big physically as other countries it would seem to be a good fit.

Its the exact same system Penney had at Munster during his time there.

seanm187

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Its the exact same system Penney had at Munster during his time there.

I know. The Munster Mafia put an end to that pretty quickly tho by running Penney outta town..

irishbucsfan

It's somewhat like what they doing but what Connacht do is also very different in a lot of more meaningful ways. Let's not get confused by buzzwords. Noone is going to confuse Mannix's Munster attack for this Connacht team

Buer

OTB was interesting last night. I only caught the first 10 minutes but Varley said Munster simply didn't have the skills to execute it.

seanm187

Buer wrote: »

OTB was interesting last night. I only caught the first 10 minutes but Varley said Munster simply didn't have the skills to execute it.

Thats for sure. But I'm sure it was the same story with Connacht at the beginning, just that they put in the effort to upgrade their skills

sydthebeat

the big difference is the depth that connacht retain... munster were very often too flat and ended up shovelling sideways rather than taking the ball at speed from deep, as connacht do.

Buer

seanm187 wrote: »

Thats for sure. But I'm sure it was the same story with Connacht at the beginning, just that they put in the effort to upgrade their skills

True but there's an element of old dogs and new tricks also, I reckon.

I would imagine it was much easier to coach guys like Dillane, McKeon and Bealham to play a completely different way than it would be to coach POC, DOC and Varley

freyners

Buer wrote: »

OTB was interesting last night. I only caught the first 10 minutes but Varley said Munster simply didn't have the skills to execute it.

In fairness neither did Connacht when Lam came in. While its made look simple now its the result of two seasons working extremely hard on skills. Bundee's first year (not unlike Saili now) was noticeable in the amount of times he sought offloads or threw passes that the team werent able to anticpate or provide. The formation Connacht play now was only gradually introduced last year and has been a fixture this year now that the handling and awareness of the players is at the requisite level.

The reason it didnt work at Munster, in my opinions, is a combination of forcing a system that the players didnt have the skill for and the players for not working hard enough on their skills

shoutman

Another one of Murray Kinsella's deep diving analysis:

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-connacht-pat-lam-2-4-2-shape-2721781-Apr2016/

Utopia Parkway

I think Lam had the advantage that there was less expectation on him to start winning games immediately than there was on Penney down in Munster. I think Connacht lost 7 of his first 8 games or something like that. Lam had time to work on the system and skills he wanted the team to execute without the likes of Thornley and Keith Wood going through him for a short cut every week on Off the Ball on Newstalk.

b.gud

Buer wrote: »

True but there's an element of old dogs and new tricks also, I reckon.

I would imagine it was much easier to coach guys like Dillane, McKeon and Bealham to play a completely different way than it would be to coach POC, DOC and Varley

Muldoon and Muldowney are two of the older guys in the team who've thrived under Lam, this has been by far Muldoons best season in a while. At the beginning of the year I was unsure if he should be starting but now I think he should be one of the first names on the sheet. That isn't all down to skills but there has certainly been a marked improvement

Tim Robbins

sydthebeat wrote: »

the big difference is the depth that connacht retain... munster were very often too flat and ended up shovelling sideways rather than taking the ball at speed from deep, as connacht do.

I have seen some plays were they have a few guys flat and then a few others deep and then go out the back door or just go flat.

It seems the kind of thing that is just drilled into you at training - to be always looking for the space rather than the percentages.