Boru 900i Stove Problem

betterfly

Hi,
I don't often find reason to complain, and would prefer if this was an Irish success story. On Feb 24th last I bought a €1400 stove from Ganleys in Athlone. I specifically asked if the stove had any electrical fans and was told no. It seemed like a the right stove, 14kw, nice look and my friend had the 600i and he was happy with it. So far;

a) Stove was late by 3 weeks leaving us sitting with no fireplace or stove
b) Bolts were missing to assemble the stove when it came
c) Baffles in the stove were broken when it came
d) The door broke
e) The ash pan is much too small for the size of the firebox and the ash is impossible to clean out
f) The stove gives out negligible heat advantage over the open fire
g) The glass is all sooted and black

My main gripe is the noise. The stove came and it has these two electrical fans built in. I went ahead and installed it because I could see the fans had a three position switch (Off/Hi/Lo) so I checked the book which said nothing about the operation of the fans. Trouble is the fans are required to run when the stove is lit. The fans at the high setting put out 63db of noise which is close to a vacuum cleaner in terms of comparative sound. The fans have a heat switch so once the stove heats up they come on and vary in speed. If the instruction book said the fans were a requirement I would have immediately returned the stove. Because the instructions were silent on the operation of these fans, and the switch appeared to work in the correct sense we completed the installation. The fact the fans were on a heat switch quickly became apparent and incredibly infuriating.

In the strict sense my contract is with the vendor. However I am not only out the purchase price of the stove, which the vendor/agent will refund. I am out;

1) Cost of installation
2) Cost of removal
3) The 3 bags of insulation that is going to fall all over the place when we pull it out
4) Hiring an industrial hoover to clean up
5) Reinstallation of the new suitable stove

I have let both the vendor/agent and the manufacturer know I am not happy and want the stove removed. Both are dodging the bullets and blaming each other. I would rather not fall out with my local hardware store but I feel that the manufacturer has much culpability in the matter. I wrote to the manufacturer and told them how dissatisfied I am, and in the effort to compromise if the remove the stove and clean up the mess I would be happy as the vendor would give me a refund. They sent an engineer who assessed the stove to cover their position and to prepare a defence to any claim I would bring. No solutions were offered and they told me to get my solicitor to write to them and let it go legal. I am looking for essentially 3 hours work from their service engineer and thats is. Less than 100 euro worth of labour and we are done.

Instead Boru want to fight on the technicality that the website/brochure say it has twin turbines fitted as standard. I understand a turbine to mean what the dictionary says, and it is a very different thing to an electric fan. I assumed the turbines were a heat driven fan type arrangement. I also feel the electrical requirements should have been stated on the advertising along with the fact the fans (not turbines) were required in order to operate the stove. You couldn't live with the thing, and I will take it out myself if I have to. No heat and all noise is not what I expect from an Irish company championing the buy Irish case. I could have easily bought a foreign stove. It would have been cheaper and maybe I would have gotten better service.

I am going to measure up my costs and ask my solicitor to try recover my losses from either/or the vendor or manufacturer.

dudara

Your contract is with the vendor. And the value of the stove falls within the limit of the Small Claims Court, so no need for a solicitor.

AMKC

Sounds like you got a stove that was handled badly and maybe even damaged in transit and that you were also wrongly informed and mis advised in the shop when you were told it does not have fans when it in fact does have electric fans in it. You have a right to return the stove and receive either a refund, a repair or a replacement which ever you prefer.

Here is some of your consumer rights here hope these help.

What is a contract?
A contract is a formal agreement between two or more people that is enforceable by law. When you buy goods or services you enter into a contract with the seller. Contracts are made up of terms; some of which can be implied terms. Contracts may be written or oral. It is easier to know what the terms are in a written contract but an oral contract is also enforceable in law. Contracts may differ in many ways and there are no hard and fast rules governing what terms should be in a consumer contract. Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer. The following general rules apply to consumer contracts.

Consumer contracts are protected by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980.

Under this Act the purchaser of goods has a number of rights - the main ones are

Goods must be of merchantable quality – goods should be of reasonable quality taking into account what they are meant to do, their durability and their price
Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do
Goods must be as described - the buyer must not be mislead into buying something by the description of goods or services given orally by a salesperson or an advertisement.
When you buy goods in a sale you have the same rights as when you pay full price for the goods.

If you have a contract with a supplier of services you can expect that:

The supplier has the necessary skill to provide the service
The service will be provided with proper care and diligence
The materials used will be sound and that goods supplied with the service will be of merchantable quality
You can read more about your rights when you buy a service here.

If things go wrong
If you have a problem with an item that you have bought it is always the seller who should put things right. As a general rule, the seller can either repair or replace the item. Alternatively, they can refund the costs of the item or service to the consumer.

If you are not satisfied with the quality of goods or services you can:

Return the goods to the supplier who sold it to you (you should not return the goods to the manufacturer)
Act as soon as you can – a delay can indicate that you have accepted faulty goods or services
Do not attempt to repair the item yourself or give it to anyone else to repair it
Make sure that you have a proof of purchase (a receipt, cheque stub, credit card statement or invoice)
You have no grounds for redress if

You were told about the defect before you bought the item (for example, if the goods were marked 'shopsoiled')
You examined the item before you bought it and should have seen the defect
You bought the item knowing that it wasn’t fit for what you wanted it to do
You broke or damaged the product
You made a mistake when buying the item (for example, if you bought an item of clothing thinking it was black when it is actually navy)
You change your mind
Retailers are not obliged to give refunds or credit notes under the above circumstances even if you show proof of purchase.

It is important to note that there are no hard and fast rules as to which remedy you should be entitled to. When seeking redress for problems with goods or services the circumstances of each individual case must be taken into account.

Further information on your rights when goods are faulty is available on consumerhelp.ie.

If you are not satisfied with the seller's response you may be able to take a claim to the Small Claims Court.

If you made your purchase using your debit or credit card you may be able to get your bank or credit card company to reverse the transaction. This is called a chargeback. You should contact your card provider as soon as possible. Give them details of the transaction you are disputing and request that they follow it up. Most card schemes offer full chargeback rights to consumers, but with some debit cards schemes you cannot use the chargeback facility if you did not receive the goods. Further information on chargeback is available on the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission's website.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html

There is more info at that link. But most of the main points and the points you need I have posted there.

prince20

betterfly wrote: »

Hi,
I don't often find reason to complain, and would prefer if this was an Irish success story. On Feb 24th last I bought a €1400 stove from Ganleys in Athlone. I specifically asked if the stove had any electrical fans and was told no. It seemed like a the right stove, 14kw, nice look and my friend had the 600i and he was happy with it. So far;

a) Stove was late by 3 weeks leaving us sitting with no fireplace or stove
b) Bolts were missing to assemble the stove when it came
c) Baffles in the stove were broken when it came
d) The door broke
e) The ash pan is much too small for the size of the firebox and the ash is impossible to clean out
f) The stove gives out negligible heat advantage over the open fire
g) The glass is all sooted and black

My main gripe is the noise. The stove came and it has these two electrical fans built in. I went ahead and installed it because I could see the fans had a three position switch (Off/Hi/Lo) so I checked the book which said nothing about the operation of the fans. Trouble is the fans are required to run when the stove is lit. The fans at the high setting put out 63db of noise which is close to a vacuum cleaner in terms of comparative sound. The fans have a heat switch so once the stove heats up they come on and vary in speed. If the instruction book said the fans were a requirement I would have immediately returned the stove. Because the instructions were silent on the operation of these fans, and the switch appeared to work in the correct sense we completed the installation. The fact the fans were on a heat switch quickly became apparent and incredibly infuriating.

In the strict sense my contract is with the vendor. However I am not only out the purchase price of the stove, which the vendor/agent will refund. I am out;

1) Cost of installation
2) Cost of removal
3) The 3 bags of insulation that is going to fall all over the place when we pull it out
4) Hiring an industrial hoover to clean up
5) Reinstallation of the new suitable stove

I have let both the vendor/agent and the manufacturer know I am not happy and want the stove removed. Both are dodging the bullets and blaming each other. I would rather not fall out with my local hardware store but I feel that the manufacturer has much culpability in the matter. I wrote to the manufacturer and told them how dissatisfied I am, and in the effort to compromise if the remove the stove and clean up the mess I would be happy as the vendor would give me a refund. They sent an engineer who assessed the stove to cover their position and to prepare a defence to any claim I would bring. No solutions were offered and they told me to get my solicitor to write to them and let it go legal. I am looking for essentially 3 hours work from their service engineer and thats is. Less than 100 euro worth of labour and we are done.

Instead Boru want to fight on the technicality that the website/brochure say it has twin turbines fitted as standard. I understand a turbine to mean what the dictionary says, and it is a very different thing to an electric fan. I assumed the turbines were a heat driven fan type arrangement. I also feel the electrical requirements should have been stated on the advertising along with the fact the fans (not turbines) were required in order to operate the stove. You couldn't live with the thing, and I will take it out myself if I have to. No heat and all noise is not what I expect from an Irish company championing the buy Irish case. I could have easily bought a foreign stove. It would have been cheaper and maybe I would have gotten better service.

I am going to measure up my costs and ask my solicitor to try recover my losses from either/or the vendor or manufacturer.

Hi there,

Just wondering how long you had the stove in place. Im thinking of getting one but after reading this im not so sure...

Thanks

betterfly

Hi,
We had the stove from march until yesterday. We finally brought it back to the vendor and they are giving us a credit note for the purchase price. If you really wanted one I bet Ganleys in Athlone would love to sell it to you.

We're researching other brands now.

dudara

betterfly wrote: »

Hi,
We had the stove from march until yesterday. We finally brought it back to the vendor and they are giving us a credit note for the purchase price. If you really wanted one I bet Ganleys in Athlone would love to sell it to you.

We're researching other brands now.

Just a note that if the goods are faulty, you are entitled to a refund, repair or replacement. A refund should be via the original method of payment. A credit note is not a valid refund (although you can of course accept it if it suits you).