Another court summons for speeding thread

younggalway

Sorry I know this topic has been covered to death here but I'm wondering if anyone has any recent experience of judge's rulings in this area.

So,
I got pulled by a Guard with a camera gun doing 119km/hr on the Athlone bypass (100km/hr) back in September. I got the 2 notices but I never paid them as I simply could not afford them. I am a full time student so neither 80/120 euro were easy to come by. Anyway its too late now and I have received a court summons for 2 weeks time in Athlone. I know it is impossible to predict what the judge will rule but I was hoping if someone could offer a best case scenario? I live off 50 euro a week so even the cost of going to Athlone is going to be a challenge, a friend is lending me 120 euro which Im going to offer to the judge/guard/court, whoever, and explain that this is all i have and I wasn't trying to get away with not paying etc.

Im trying to convince myself they'll will be somewhat lenient given my circumstances but I know at the back of my mind they deal with this every day and probably don't care about my excuses. I should also say that I already have 6 points from the time I owned a car (2 speeding offences form go-safe vans), if I were to get 6 points in court I will lose my licence which I am terrified of even though I am not driving at the moment. Will the judge know about these points already or should I say it, but risk it backfiring?

Basically I'm fxxxxd and I need help form anyone that knows what I should do. (Please no 'you should have paid/ it your own fault' etc, I know)

CiniO

AFAIR maximum penalty points issued by court for speeding is 5, so you won't loose your licence.
Don't worry then.

RoyalMarine

Maybe you should walk in there, confess to being a dangerous driver (speeding, caught multiple times, 6 points, fines etc) and hope that your honesty carry's some weight.

I'd also suggest you consider slowing down.....

younggalway

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Maybe you should walk in there, confess to being a dangerous driver (speeding, caught multiple times, 6 points, fines etc) and hope that your honesty carry's some weight.

I'd also suggest you consider slowing down.....

Thank you so much for your suggestion, it is exactly the kind of helpful advice I requested.

JPNelsforearm

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Maybe you should walk in there, confess to being a dangerous driver (speeding, caught multiple times, 6 points, fines etc) and hope that your honesty carry's some weight.

I'd also suggest you consider slowing down.....

Boooooooooooooo

younggalway

CiniO wrote: »

AFAIR maximum penalty points issued by court for speeding is 5, so you won't loose your licence.
Don't worry then.

Thank for this CiniO, I thought I had read it's double the original conviction so it would be 6, I'm hoping to God its only 5 so

ironclaw

I know your circumstances arn't great, but you'd be a little mad to walk into a court without some form of legal representation. Most colleges have some form of legal advice service, worth a shot to get a little advice. The law world is very musty and formal in places, you can land on the wrong side of a judges court even by the way you dress or act.

You can't loose your license but all the same, I wouldn't wander into a court with no prior legal advice.

pa990

CiniO wrote: »

AFAIR maximum penalty points issued by court for speeding is 5, so you won't loose your licence.
Don't worry then.

as long as the op has only received one summons.. but if a summons as been sent for each alleged speeding offense, then both will be heard separately , and the OP could possibly receive 6 points for each matter..

younggalway

ironclaw wrote: »

I know your circumstances arn't great, but you'd be a little mad to walk into a court without some form of legal representation. Most colleges have some form of legal advice service, worth a shot to get a little advice. The law world is very musty and formal in places, you can land on the wrong side of a judges court even by the way you dress or act.

You can't loose your license but all the same, I wouldn't wander into a court with no prior legal advice.

Hi Ironclaw, sorry I don't mean to sound naive but I have never been in this position, do most people in these situations get a solicitor? I know there is a legal advice center in college and I will try to get into them before the court date. I just assumed a solicitor would be of no benefit as its a fairly simple case and the only variance with other cases would be down to an individual judge's degree of leniency on the day. Also I just cant afford a solicitor. I was going to ring a solicitor to see if they could advise but I assume theyre not in the habit of giving free advice like that.

younggalway

pa990 wrote: »

as long as the op has only received one summons.. but if a summons as been sent for each alleged speeding offense, then both will be heard separately , and the OP could possibly receive 6 points for each matter..

Its just the 1 summons for the incident in September, the other 2 speeding fines are from 1 and 2 years ago and were paid in time as I was working full time.

pa990

younggalway wrote: »

Its just the 1 summons for the incident in September, the other 2 speeding fines are from 1 and 2 years ago and were paid in time as I was working full time.

does the summons mention the two dates (unlikely) or both dates ?

if its just the one date, then expect to get double points, ie 6

if its for the two dates (unlikely) then expect to get 6 points


the moral of the story is: pay your fines on time or expect 6 points

Tefral

Half the country seems to get off on using the excuse that they never received the FCPN. Not saying that you should be going to court and lying or anything.

younggalway

pa990 wrote: »

does the summons mention the two dates (unlikely) or both dates ?

No the summons only refers to getting stopped in September. The other points are sorted, the fines were paid and I have them 6 points. I just mentioned them as I was wondering will the judge be aware I have them if I don't mention the, I'm afraid if he knows I have 6 points for speeding already he won't pay a bit of heed to my situation this time

younggalway

cronin_j wrote: »

Half the country seems to get off on using the excuse that they never received the FCPN. Not saying that you should be going to court and lying or anything.

I know, I've read all about it but is that not just for ones issued by go-safe? Also, hypothetically one could be worried about using this excuse as a hypothetical judge might hypothetically get pissed off and throw the book at the hypothetical accused. Hypothetically.

CiniO

pa990 wrote: »

does the summons mention the two dates (unlikely) or both dates ?

if its just the one date, then expect to get double points, ie 6

if its for the two dates (unlikely) then expect to get 6 points


the moral of the story is: pay your fines on time or expect 6 points

Where do you get this 6 points thing?
For speeding it's 3 points on paying the fine, or 5 if convicted by court.

No matter how much judge wanted, he still can't issue 6 points for single speeding offence.

pa990

CiniO wrote: »

Where do you get this 6 points thing?
For speeding it's 3 points on paying the fine, or 5 if convicted by court.

No matter how much judge wanted, he still can't issue 6 points for single speeding offence.

you're correct... my mistake


i just presumed points were doubled upon conviction in court

kirving

High horse:

For someone with 6 points already, and possibly another 5 on the way, you've really got to take this more seriously and get yourself a solicitor.

The way the judge will see it, you could afford to drive, insure the car, etc, already had 6 points and still chose to speed, and then ignore the fine, your going to have a rough day if you go alone.

Seriously though, I don't agree with the extra points if you go to court for a genuine cases, it's purely to force people to accept points in fear of more, and punishes those who couldn't come up with the money or never got the notice.

CiniO

Kevin Irving wrote: »

High horse:

For someone with 6 points already, and possibly another 5 on the way, you've really got to take this more seriously and get yourself a solicitor.

But realistically what can judge do.
He can, and most likely will issue OP with 5 penalty points.
He can give him a fine - how big?

He can't ban OP from driving, as his speeding was not dangerous or anything. He wasn't much over the limit.


Only reason to get solicitor in that case, would be to negotiate amount of fine OP can get, which I don't believe could be any big anyway.
Possibly solicitor might cost more than a fine.

younggalway

Kevin Irving wrote: »

High horse:

For someone with 6 points already, and possibly another 5 on the way, you've really got to take this more seriously and get yourself a solicitor.

The way the judge will see it, you could afford to drive, insure the car, etc, already had 6 points and still chose to speed, and then ignore the fine, your going to have a rough day if you go alone.

Seriously though, I don't agree with the extra points if you go to court for a genuine cases, it's purely to force people to accept points in fear of more, and punishes those who couldn't come up with the money or never got the notice.

Thanks for the contribution but I don't think I can properly convey how seriously I am taking this. I haven't slept since I got the letter and all I think of is getting a massive fine which I cannot afford to pay. I'm not looking for sympathy from the judge, I am wondering if I simply state my circumstances (ie. I am in absolutely no position to pay this fine) that he/she may say 'pay the original late penalty (120e) and take 3/5 points?
And as for hiring a solicitor, I would love to have one with me on the day, if only to speak on my behalf as I am bricking it, but that's just not an option. Do you think the judge will take me less seriously without some form of representation?
is it true that if the guard doesn't show up they can throw out the case? Or is that wishful thinking?

Esel

From what you have said, the only hope you realistically have is to try to speak to the prosecuting Garda before your case comes up and put your situation to him/her. Hope you can recognise him/her.

Buffman

younggalway wrote: »

is it true that if the guard doesn't show up they can throw out the case? Or is that wishful thinking?

The judge can choose to adjourn the case if he/she wants, but it's far more likely for the case to be struck out if the guard's a no show without a good reason.

younggalway wrote: »

And as for hiring a solicitor, I would love to have one with me on the day, if only to speak on my behalf as I am bricking it, but that's just not an option. Do you think the judge will take me less seriously without some form of representation?

No, plenty of people opt to represent themselves, just be factual and explain you're circumstances to the judge.

younggalway wrote: »

I don't think I can properly convey how seriously I am taking this. I haven't slept since I got the letter and all I think of is getting a massive fine which I cannot afford to pay. I'm not looking for sympathy from the judge, I am wondering if I simply state my circumstances (ie. I am in absolutely no position to pay this fine) that he/she may say 'pay the original late penalty (120e) and take 3/5 points?

The law regarding fines changed earlier this year with the Fines Act. The judge has to consider you're circumstances, so bring your bank statements etc with you.

The legal forum might be able to offer examples of past cases. (They don't do legal advice)

9935452

Esel wrote: »

From what you have said, the only hope you realistically have is to try to speak to the prosecuting Garda before your case comes up and put your situation to him/her. Hope you can recognise him/her.

Thats the best advice ive seen cinsidering the circumstances.
OP if you know the guardsexplain the situation name try to make contact before the court date and plead your case with him

GM228

Buffman wrote: »

The judge can choose to adjourn the case if he/she wants, but it's far more likely for the case to be struck out if the guard's a no show without a good reason.



No, plenty of people opt to represent themselves, just be factual and explain you're circumstances to the judge.



The law regarding fines changed earlier this year with the Fines Act. The judge has to consider you're circumstances, so bring your bank statements etc with you.

The legal forum might be able to offer examples of past cases. (They don't do legal advice)

Is the court fine not the fixed €120 on conviction?

Or is it subject to a maximum of €X?

If it's a fixed fine the judge dosn't consider your circumstances.

PeteK*

pa990 wrote: »

as long as the op has only received one summons.. but if a summons as been sent for each alleged speeding offense, then both will be heard separately , and the OP could possibly receive 6 points for each matter..

It's best to get both heard at the same time if anyone is in this situation because only a maximum of five points can be added.

Esel wrote: »

From what you have said, the only hope you realistically have is to try to speak to the prosecuting Garda before your case comes up and put your situation to him/her. Hope you can recognise him/her.

I agree with this. You're best bet is to speak with the guard and hope they withdraw it out or put in a good word but it's not looking good that you've been done for speeding twice before. The judge won't know unless s/he asks.

As for the fine, it'll be maximum €1k but unlikely to be anywhere near it. I'd be surprised if it's more than €200. You are entitled to pay in instalments but 10% is added by the state.

I'd dress smart and present yourself well because you never know how the judge might feel. Good luck!

josip

When I used to read the local district court accounts for traffic offenses, the judge usually imposed a fine of €x if the defendant was represented and 2 times €x if the defendant didn't have representation, where €x was what the local solicitors used to charge for representing for traffic offenses.
So it worked out the same overall cost.

MarkAnthony

Okay so, you've managed to get €120 to go to court with but couldn't pay the FPN. The legal advice bit has been done to death so some financial advice; if you slow down a bit and deal with things as they occur you'll find yourself much better off. The insurance cost alone of having 6/11 points must be eye watering.

99% of the time I recommend legal advice but really here it's a case of pitching up and hoping the Judge is in a good mood. Peter's advice above is good. Make sure you dress smart and be seen to take it seriously. God love ya a day in the DC is going to be an eye opener for you.

In the meantime get hold of a Tom Tom sat nav, and install Brian Blessed on it screaming at you if you go over the limit.

MarkAnthony

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Okay so, you've managed to get €120 to go to court with but couldn't pay the FPN.

+1 on that surely you could have got 80 euro from a friend of parents to pay the original fine, you knew well it wasn't going to go away and was only going get worse.

Not sure how you can run a car if you are so stuck for money that you can't afford 80 euro. What happens when you need tyres or a service or if something goes wrong with the car.

sunnysoutheast

9935452 wrote: »

Thats the best advice ive seen cinsidering the circumstances.
OP if you know the guardsexplain the situation name try to make contact before the court date and plead your case with him

Whilst I understand the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" aspect of the advice given what would you actually say to the Garda in reality?

"You know that speeding ticket you gave me a while back, will you let me off?"

Presumably if it's gone out as a FCN and got all the way to a court summons the only option for the Garda is not to turn up to court, if they were so minded?

Atomic Pineapple

Hank Echoing Tour wrote: »

+1 on that surely you could have got 80 euro from a friend of parents to pay the original fine, you knew well it wasn't going to go away and was only going get worse.

Not sure how you can run a car if you are so stuck for money that you can't afford 80 euro. What happens when you need tyres or a service or if something goes wrong with the car.

I agree, this will reflect badly on you if your case is based on not being able to afford the initial fine. The judge will query how you have €120 to offer now but couldn't get the lend of €80 at the time to cover the initial cost of the fine. Be prepared to be able to explain that.

If you only live on €50 a week the judge will also likely query how you can afford to drive a car and cover maintenance, fuel and insurance costs on the car.

pablo128

Atomic Pineapple wrote: »

I agree, this will reflect badly on you if your case is based on not being able to afford the initial fine. The judge will query how you have €120 to offer now but couldn't get the lend of €80 at the time to cover the initial cost of the fine. Be prepared to be able to explain that.

If you only live on €50 a week the judge will also likely query how you can afford to drive a car and cover maintenance, fuel and insurance costs on the car.

Did it occur to you it could be his mother or fathers car?

Atomic Pineapple

pablo128 wrote: »

Did it occur to you it could be his mother or fathers car?

It did but just like the judge wont I didn't assume.

9935452

pablo128 wrote: »

Did it occur to you it could be his mother or fathers car?

The judge could look at it like ' if his parents are good enough to lend him the car , they would be good enough to lend him the 80 euro to pay the first fine' so that avenue might backfire if said in court.

pablo128

9935452 wrote: »

The judge could look at it like ' if his parents are good enough to lend him the car , they would be good enough to lend him the 80 euro to pay the first fine' so that avenue might backfire if said in court.

My comment was aimed at the 3 people in this thread who assumed it was his own car, and sure aren't you loaded if you own a car.

There's another thread on Boards regarding the new push by Gardai on bald tyres, and one poster was trying to defend poor people driving around on bald tyres! You couldn't make it up.

MarkAnthony

pablo128 wrote: »

My comment was aimed at the 3 people in this thread who assumed it was his own car, and sure aren't you loaded if you own a car.

There's another thread on Boards regarding the new push by Gardai on bald tyres, and one poster was trying to defend poor people driving around on bald tyres! You couldn't make it up.

There was a brilliant thread/post from one lad who said he forwent tax for tyres. I'd actually have given him a break if I was in the DC. Thankfully for Ireland that's never going to happen.

mikeym

pablo128 wrote: »

There's another thread on Boards regarding the new push by Gardai on bald tyres, and one poster was trying to defend poor people driving around on bald tyres! You couldn't make it up.

So poor people dont exist???

Sorry to burst your bubble but they do.

MarkAnthony

mikeym wrote: »

So poor people dont exist???

Sorry to burst your bubble but they do.

They really shouldn't be driving or having children.

pablo128

mikeym wrote: »

So poor people dont exist???

Sorry to burst your bubble but they do.

What's bizarre about this is that you replied on this thread, but not the other one.

mikeym

MarkAnthony wrote: »

They really shouldn't be driving or having children.

Such a burden on the welfare system. :rolleyes:

What exactly has it got to do with motoring?

mikeym

pablo128 wrote: »

What's bizarre about this is that you replied on this thread, but not the other one.

I just replied to it now.

MarkAnthony

mikeym wrote: »

Such a burden on the welfare system. :rolleyes:

What exactly has it got to do with motoring?

It was supposed to be ironic, never mind back to procrastinating somewhere else.

Johngoose

cronin_j wrote: »

Half the country seems to get off on using the excuse that they never received the FCPN. Not saying that you should be going to court and lying or anything.

I'm not condoning lying either,but were notices sent by registered post?If not maybe you never got them?

younggalway

Thanks to most for their input. Just to answer a few questions/assumptions. It was my mam's car, as I do not own a car, as stated in my first post. Also those wondering where I conjured up 120e ? That was also stated in my original post.

To the financial advisors amongst us, while I appreciate it would have been a much better solution to have paid the 80 euro originally,I unfortunately do not have access to a time machine so that's irrelevant and does not aid my situation in any way now.

Also I was wondering, is there a minimum penalty that has to be applied in this situation? Or is it entirely up to the judge to decide what to do?

MarkAnthony

younggalway wrote: »

Thanks to most for their input. Just to answer a few questions/assumptions. It was my mam's car, as I do not own a car, as stated in my first post. Also those wondering where I conjured up 120e ? That was also stated in my original post.

To the financial advisors amongst us, while I appreciate it would have been a much better solution to have paid the 80 euro originally,I unfortunately do not have access to a time machine so that's irrelevant and does not aid my situation in any way now.

Also I was wondering, is there a minimum penalty that has to be applied in this situation? Or is it entirely up to the judge to decide what to do?

IIRC it's 5 point automatically for it getting to that stage, there will then be a fine.

ED E

Once, ok.
Twice, well....
Thrice....Maybe you're better off getting the bus for a while.

MarkAnthony

ED E wrote: »

Once, ok.
Twice, well....
Thrice....Maybe you're better off getting the bus for a while.

Don't let him drive a bus FFS.

Esel

^
^^

One,
Two,
Three

comedians in this thread.

I'm saying I could be the turd, in case you are a bit slow on the uptake.