Deposit of €160 for a free pre school place?

Mindset

I put my daughters name down in a montessori in Drogheda Town for their free pre school year starting september 2016. I was told in order to secure a place i had to pay in full a deposit of €160. I paid €20 there and then and went away to think about it. I got a txt from them a few weeks later asking if I was going to pay he rest of the deposit to secure her place and that there were only two places left.
This was back in March so what was urgency?
Anyway i paid the rest in full and got a receipt but since then I've decided to keep my daughter in the creche she's currently in for the pre school year.
I rang them to advice them i wound be taking a place in september but they won't give me my deposit back, any of it.
Ive never heard of a creche asking for a deposit just to put your name down but especially as its for a free year anyway.

does anyone have any experience of this or a similar situation, and do i have any rights to get my money back??

P. Breathnach

The purpose of taking a deposit is to protect the business from capricious clients who might book a place and then not take it. Once they have reserved a place for your child, they will refuse that place to other children.

Do you think it is reasonable to mess them around like that?

Mindset

I understand that but its not like i cancelled her place a week before she was due to start in September, its only April. I have no doubt they will be able to give that place to someone else. Im sure they have a waiting list of people in case someone changes their mind. In fact thats how i got my daughter into the creche she's in now. Someone changed their mind. It happens.

You don't have to pay a deposit when you're booking an appointment at the hairdressers do you? Its the same principle.

uck51js9zml2yt

I paid a deposit for my son to book his place which I got back when he started.
If I had cancelled I would have lost it.
They would have completed paperwork for the department for your child which takes time. Time isn't free in business.

PLL

That is madness, I paid a deposit to secure my daughter's school place (Junior Infants) that was only €75 and I was happy to pay it because it is a popular school in a city and I was happy she had a place. The money is also used for admin/photocopying etc fees so I don't have to pay anything in September. She did not have to pay any form of deposit for the playschool she is currently in, I could understand a small deposit, but €160 is crazy money!

Also, you mentioned how they will easily fill that place - you're very right. I got a leaflet through my door today from a preschool advertising enrolment.

I'm not sure where you could go about seeing about getting the deposit back but seeing as the free preschool year is a FREE government funded scheme I don't think it is right that the place is trying to make money out of parents. Maybe contact someone at the department of children and youth affairs - http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1143

Toots

I paid a deposit for my son for the free preschool year. From talking to others who have a kid the same age, it's standard, they all paid deposits. It took until October for the department to sort out the ECCE forms and once it had all gone through the deposit was refunded. They're perfectly within their rights to charge a deposit, it's to cover them for these exact circumstances - someone takes a place but then pulls out.

Cabaal

The use of deposits are a way of making sure people follow through on something, if the customer doesn't follow through on the previous agreement then the deposit is used by the business to compensate for this failing. Its perfectly reasonable for the pre-school to keep the deposit.

If you had any doubts to begin with it would have been best to not pay any deposit.

All it takes is a few parents doing the exact same thing as yourself and it means they are likely refusing other parents based on them expecting them to be full and they are out of pocket. A business needs to protect itself from these types of losses.

PLL, a school place and a pre-school are very different. The pre-school isn't a school and isn't run by Department of Education, it is instead a private business. At the end of the day nobody forced the OP to pay the deposit, they did it by their own free will.

Cabaal

Mindset wrote: »

You don't have to pay a deposit when you're booking an appointment at the hairdressers do you? Its the same principle.

Not really,
A hair dressing appointment is 1 session, a pre-school placement is equal to countless sessions throughout the year and far more money then any one hair cut would ever bring in. So they are not like with like as examples.

Of course if a hair dressers did wish to charge a deposit upon booking then its perfectly legal for them to do so. Those that pay it and later complain when they loose it if they cancel the appointment would have no leg to stand on.

If a customer/parent doesn't wish to pay a deposit then nobody of forcing them, they can simply go to a different business

Mindset

well i guess the general consensus is that they are perfectly within their rights to charge a deposit. Thanks for the feedback everyone, i just don't have any experience with this sort of thing and it seemed a bit harsh to me. I suppose they have to protect their interests as a business against flakey people like myself

ScouseMouse

PLL wrote: »

That is madness, I paid a deposit to secure my daughter's school place (Junior Infants) that was only €75 and I was happy to pay it because it is a popular school in a city and I was happy she had a place. The money is also used for admin/photocopying etc fees so I don't have to pay anything in September. She did not have to pay any form of deposit for the playschool she is currently in, I could understand a small deposit, but €160 is crazy money!

Also, you mentioned how they will easily fill that place - you're very right. I got a leaflet through my door today from a preschool advertising enrolment.

I'm not sure where you could go about seeing about getting the deposit back but seeing as the free preschool year is a FREE government funded scheme I don't think it is right that the place is trying to make money out of parents. Maybe contact someone at the department of children and youth affairs - http://www.dcya.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1143

The point you are missing is the place is FREE TO YOU, because the government is actually paying for it. Its quite possible the pre-school has been caught out by people registering but then not turning up. This then causes the school to have empty place which may not be filled. Empty places mean they don't get paid.

Its quite reasonable to expect a deposit to hold the place.

galljga1

O.P., wait a while and ring up to confirm your place. It is possible that the place will have been reallocated. If this is the case, demand that you are guaranteed a place or you get your money back. They cannot have it both ways.

Mountjoy Mugger

It's easy to be wise after the event however, people should always check to see if it's a refundable or non-refundable deposit.

dudara

galljga1 wrote: »

O.P., wait a while and ring up to confirm your place. It is possible that the place will have been reallocated. If this is the case, demand that you are guaranteed a place or you get your money back. They cannot have it both ways.

They actually can, if their T&Cs cover them. They can keep the deposit as the OP has informed them she is not taking the place, and they can allocate the place to another family.

ssmith6287

Its a deposit. the purpose of the deposit is to guarentee business on your behalf. If you break your guarentee you loose your deposit regardless if its €5 or €1000

Mindset

dudara wrote: »

They actually can, if their T&Cs cover them. They can keep the deposit as the OP has informed them she is not taking the place, and they can allocate the place to another family.

I think ill just have to keep the place and send her there in september. You get the depoit back after they start. Ill see what happens then.

Thanks for all the advice, i still think its their deposit could be a bit more resonable and they could allow for cancellations before a certain time period. They are applying for funding from the government which wont be done untill the term actually starts. Anyway it doesnt matter, it is what it is. Lesson learned.
Thanks again

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mindset wrote: »

I think ill just have to keep the place and send her there in september. You get the depoit back after they start. Ill see what happens then.

Thanks for all the advice, i still think its their deposit could be a bit more resonable and they could allow for cancellations before a certain time period. They are applying for funding from the government which wont be done untill the term actually starts. Anyway it doesnt matter, it is what it is. Lesson learned.
Thanks again

Firstly, you had better check fairly quickly that the place is still available. You can't book a place, cancel it, and then just expect the place to be still there.

You also seem to have no regard for the amount of time required to apply for funding and the amount of red tape and forms there are to complete. These things have to be done well in advance of term start.

Mindset

Gabriel Chilly Vulgarity wrote: »

Firstly, you had better check fairly quickly that the place is still available. You can't book a place, cancel it, and then just expect the place to be still there.

You also seem to have no regard for the amount of time required to apply for funding and the amount of red tape and forms there are to complete. These things have to be done well in advance of term start.

Thank you but i have done that and her place is secured. I cancelled her place yesterday afternoon but when i found out the deposit was non refundable i told them i would keep her place this morning.

I appreciate the amount of red tape involved, im not in the industry, i suspect you might be though, otherwise you wouldnt be still going on about it. Fyi it was actually the lady in this particular creche who explained that they can only submit their attendance and apply for the funding once term has started not before.
Sooo im not disregarding anything.

Wesser

Mindset wrote: »

I think ill just have to keep the place and send her there in september. You get the depoit back after they start. Ill see what happens then.

Thanks for all the advice, i still think its their deposit could be a bit more resonable and they could allow for cancellations before a certain time period. They are applying for funding from the government which wont be done untill the term actually starts. Anyway it doesnt matter, it is what it is. Lesson learned.
Thanks again

Looking at the first paragraph here, it makes me think that you are planning to take the child out as soon as your deposit has been refunded. Is this what you mean by this sentence? If so I think it's unfair to mess people around like this.

Remember it's your child they are looking after, it's not an appointment for your nails. I think it's very important that there is a totally trusting relationship between you and them. If you don't trust them now, and things haven't even started, then you are off to a bad start. Suggest sending your child to someone you trust completely.

VincePP

Mindset wrote: »

You don't have to pay a deposit when you're booking an appointment at the hairdressers do you? Its the same principle.

Some do these days. Similarly with restaurants. And very normal with hotels.

Imagine your indignation if you turned up with your child and they said they gave the place to someone else? Deposits work both ways, it cements the contract.

wokingvoter

If deposits were refundable, then what would the purpose of them be?

cms88

Gabriel Chilly Vulgarity wrote: »

Firstly, you had better check fairly quickly that the place is still available. You can't book a place, cancel it, and then just expect the place to be still there.

You also seem to have no regard for the amount of time required to apply for funding and the amount of red tape and forms there are to complete. These things have to be done well in advance of term start.

You're forgetting that this is a parent you're talking about, in their eyes they're entitled to everything their own way regardless of rules etc

cms88

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The purpose of taking a deposit is to protect the business from capricious clients who might book a place and then not take it. Once they have reserved a place for your child, they will refuse that place to other children.

Do you think it is reasonable to mess them around like that?

Of course it is. I mean the business is always wrong..

ssmith6287

Waiting for the term "shame on you", which as we all know is the ultimate tactic used in todays entitlement driven society

L1011

Mindset wrote: »

i suspect you might be though, otherwise you wouldnt be still going on about it.

Jumping to conclusions that someone is connected to something when their opinions don't match yours is a very bad idea and not conducive to proper discussions.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mindset wrote: »

Thank you but i have done that and her place is secured. I cancelled her place yesterday afternoon but when i found out the deposit was non refundable i told them i would keep her place this morning.

I appreciate the amount of red tape involved, im not in the industry, i suspect you might be though, otherwise you wouldnt be still going on about it. Fyi it was actually the lady in this particular creche who explained that they can only submit their attendance and apply for the funding once term has started not before.
Sooo im not disregarding anything.

I most certainly am not involved in the business but I am informed enough about matters to see how much work and regulation is involved. And, I was only 'going on' about it in response to your own query. Why ask f you don't want/like the correct answers?

Mindset

Gabriel Chilly Vulgarity wrote: »

I most certainly am not involved in the business but I am informed enough about matters to see how much work and regulation is involved. And, I was only 'going on' about it in response to your own query. Why ask f you don't want/like the correct answers?

I did ask, because i wasnt sure about it and i did thank everyone for their input and acknowledged that the general concensus was that a deposit was normal practice and i accepted that. What i dont get is why people are making all sorts of assumptions about me and going do far as to call me entitled ect..... not you, but someone else in this thread. Im not long living here and im a single mum so i was genuinely unsure.

Thanks for your feedback, and i dont mean that sarcastically.

dudara

@cm88 - Your contributions to this thread have not been helpful and are no longer welcome. If you cannot offer advice to the OP, then please don't post.

dudara

njs030

I would politely ask if they can reassign the place could I have my deposit back. Being nice might make them more likely to help you.