Genetic genealogy

jos28

I'm currently doing an online genealogy course with futurelearn
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/genealogy.

I'm really enjoying the course. Last week we covered genetic genealogy and I didn't enjoy it as much as previous weeks. I reckoned that tracing through DNA testing is in it's infancy and not worth looking into. In the meantime I joined a FB page for Kerry genealogy and got a result with my very first post. I found someone in NYC with whom we share the same GG Grandmother.
Guess how she linked herself to my lot - you've guessed it - DNA testing through Ancestry. I'm not in the database obviously, but she found someone linked to my tree who is.

Has anyone used this service and if so, how did you get on.
Thoughts please....

Waitsian

My mother did the test and we were able to establish a link to two family connections which pre-date civil records and in parishes whose records don't go back much further. To date the family names were just family folklore so we were delighted with the results. With the help of those distant cousins connected by DNA I now have new research avenues and I am collaborating with them.

Hermy

I didn't realise genetic genealogy was at the stage where it could link individuals together.
I wrongly assumed it was still only about telling you from what part of the world your ancestry originated ie whether you're a descendant of Charlemagne or Genghis Khan or the like.

jos28

I thought the same Hermy, I presumed it could just tell you what ethnic group you hailed from. I was really surprised when I heard that's how my 'new' cousin made the connection to my family. Fair play to your mother Mod, way ahead of the rest of there. It must be great to find someone connected to you who has explored other avenues and be able to benefit from that.
I was so sceptical when I learned about it last week and really wasn't that interested. I am NOW !!

Jellybaby1

I was told (by a friend) that if you pay top whack for those DNA tests, you will get lots more information than if you pay a lower amount. I suppose it also depends on the company doing the tests. I've no experience of it myself.

L1011

Hermy wrote: »

I didn't realise genetic genealogy was at the stage where it could link individuals together.
I wrongly assumed it was still only about telling you from what part of the world your ancestry originated ie whether you're a descendant of Charlemagne or Genghis Khan or the like.

It can only go up and down direct lines, currently and I suspect ever - but its relatively easy to do so now. I'm trying to see if one of my male maternal cousins would do it to see if we find any matches on a suspected connected male line which could jump over a record gap in Nenagh - however if nobody on that other side has done it I could find myself forking out for lots of tests!

spurious

Not meaning to cast nasturtiums (as they say) on anyone's families, but surely all it would take would be a visit from the travelling fair, or circus, or a couple of handsome divils coming to town and it's quite possible an entire 'line' in a family would be wrong. That's if following the male line, which is always the more risky one.

pedroeibar1

spurious wrote: »

.........but surely all it would take would be a visit from ....... and it's quite possible an entire 'line' in a family would be wrong.

Naah. never happen. Tell that to the Archbishop!;):p:)

JustTheOne

Aren't we all related anyway?

We share 99.9% dna with every other human so there you have it.

Waitsian

I think it was 99 sterling. I'll write up a fuller answer, when I get a chance, of the results. I was sceptical but was genuinely delighted with the results.

Ipso

DNA resting for geneology is fairly well established, and accurate, at this point (there may be some fune tuning in the near future).
The problem with autosomal tests (looks at the entire genome) is it can tell you that you are related to someone but not how. They seem to be accurate to about five generations, going beyond that your number of relatives increases exponentially and false positive results can happen, plus the randomness of DNA recombination can produce funny results.
These tests are better used as a complementary technique with a family tree.
Y DNA and mitichondrial DNA tests look at direct male and female lines, in the case of Y tests they can connect you witj other males who share a male common ancestor in your male line. Again they seem to be accurate to a point.
As said these tests can also tell you what populations you are most like but a recent "exotic" ancestor can skew the results as the further back your ancestors the less DNA you inherit from them.

RGM

There are three major types of DNA testing for genetic genealogy:
- Autosomal: This tests parts of all your chromosomes, which means you can potentially match with cousins from any branch of your family tree. As Ipso said, it can't give you the exact relation, but two people with good enough family trees and a close enough relation have an opportunity to try to figure it out. Anyone can take this test.
- Y-DNA: This tests the Y chromosome. Only men have Y chromosomes, so only men can take it. Also, since the Y is passed from fathers to sons, this type of testing specifically deals with direct male lines only. It can potentially be useful in connecting men who have the same surname and are of the same lineage. There are a couple different approaches to testing the Y, which is where a previous comment about paying more for different levels comes in.
- mtDNA: This tests mitochondrial DNA, which everyone has. However, while men have mtDNA from their mother, they do not pass it on. So while everyone can take this test, it is basically the opposite of the Y-DNA test in that it traces only the direct maternal line. This is the least useful for modern genealogical purposes since surnames are not generally passed down the maternal line.

I've done autosomal testing with three companies: 23andMe, Ancestry.com, FTDNA. I've also done Y-DNA testing through FTDNA, where I admin a project for my surname. I've had a few family members do autosomal tests as well. Some of the connections I've made with distant cousins through all this testing has helped me learn things about my family tree that I may not have been able to through traditional methods. It has also provided supporting evidence for nearly my entire family tree going back to great-great-grandparents. There has been a surprising lack of scandal in my tree from the start.

It's a fascinating subject.

jos28

Having scoffed at the idea originally, I had to admit I'm now tempted.

RGM

jos28 wrote: »

Having scoffed at the idea originally, I had to admit I'm now tempted.

It's reasonable to have been skeptical and it is still very much a developing field. I should also point out that not everyone will get the same value from it. From a genealogy standpoint, how much it can help you depends entirely on the distant cousins you match with, what they know, and how cooperative they are.

From a practical standpoint though, most people seem very comfortable with the idea of paternity tests and their accuracy. The science behind this is really just an extension of that, naturally with less accuracy the further the relation is.

cat_r

In my family we jumped into testing with a lot of traditional research still to do but have still found it of benefit. We've gone for autosomal testing which finds cousins on both sides of the family. One set of results were not promising but did help us learn and the matches should improve as more people get tested.  Another relative found that a cousin has been organising dna testing for a couple of years, so there are a lot of close matches that should be easy enough to confirm with some work.  Other results have confirmed traditional research on one branch but failed to confirm a family story about a link on another. We have also found a very unexpected match. 

dubhthach

I've done a fair bit of testing myself, but my own interest is more in the Genetics side and what it tells us about population history as oppose to genealogy. I've seen cases out there of people who've been adopted use Genetic Genealogy to find connections to their biological family etc, however if you really into it for Genealogy what I would say is it's a complement to existing methods (documentation etc.) and not a replacement.

Here's example of Autosomnal testing comparing a sample (mine) in this case with other world populations. This is on AncestryDNA.

RGM

Your trace regions are a bit more exotic than mine.

dubhthach

RGM wrote: »

Your trace regions are a bit more exotic than mine.

Indeed, I'm debating getting my parents tested with Ancestry to see if it's a case of actual trace regions (eg. if one of them shows than I know which line of descent it comes from) or a case of "Calculator effect"

The Finnish/Northwest Russia comes up though in FamilytreeDNA as well as some Central Asian:



FTDNA don't have a distinct Irish sample population so their "British Isles" component basically maps onto my "Irish" and "British" component in AncestryDNA (90% vs. 89%+2%)

Jellybaby1

Anyone like to share how much these tests cost? Are prices falling atall atall? I'm not too interested in getting it done but others in my family might. I rather fancy being a lady viking myself. Maybe our red roots might grow out at some stage and some blonde ones might appear in a few generations.

dubhthach

AncestryDNA is fairly affordable, £79 excluding delivery, you post the sample back to their office in Dublin, from memory the postage back was free.
http://dna.ancestry.co.uk/

Their testing database is approaching something like 2million people.

Once you get results you can always "transfer" them into FTDNA database ($39 transfer fee). The advantage there is with one test you get a sample in two testing databases, so you might find matches (3-5th cousins) in one database that aren't in another.

Leaving that aside there are a number of other tools out there in testing community for looking at deep ancestral components etc. Gedmatch been one, the other I can think of is dna.land which is a US academic run site, crowdsourcing samples for research etc.

pedroeibar1

FamilytreeDNA have an offer on at the moment - $99 +postage

RGM

Yeah, there are generally sales all around this weekend for "DNA Day."

For anyone looking into it, these are the companies to stick to:
autosomal testing: AncestryDNA, 23andMe, FTDNA
Y-DNA testing: FTDNA

23andMe recently raised their prices, so at this point my personal opinion is that AncestryDNA offers the most bang for your buck. They're also the only one at the moment that has a specific Irish category in their breakdowns, the others haven't caught up yet and have only "British and Irish" or "British Isles."

RGM

dubhthach wrote: »

RGM wrote: »

Your trace regions are a bit more exotic than mine.

Indeed, I'm debating getting my parents tested with Ancestry to see if it's a case of actual trace regions (eg. if one of them shows than I know which line of descent it comes from) or a case of "Calculator effect"

The Finnish/Northwest Russia comes up though in FamilytreeDNA as well as some Central Asian:



FTDNA don't have a distinct Irish sample population so their "British Isles" component basically maps onto my "Irish" and "British" component in AncestryDNA (90% vs. 89%+2%)

Yeah, FTDNA just shows me as 100 percent "British Isles." They don't have any trace regions at all. In this area, I think they're behind both Ancestry and 23andMe, with Ancestry currently out in front.

Waitsian

mod9maple wrote: »

I think it was 99 sterling. I'll write up a fuller answer, when I get a chance, of the results. I was sceptical but was genuinely delighted with the results.

I forgot about this.

So my mother did an Ancestry Autosomal test, as did I. I have to be honest I don't understand the Ethnicity Estimate but for what it's worth my breakdown was 51% GB, 43% Ireland and 3% Western Europe (+ trace regions). My mother's was: 62% Ireland, 33% GB and 3% West Asia (+ trace).

The beauty for me was that I've been able to confirm surnames always alleged in our family past but never proven because of a lack of pre-civil records eg parish records that began not much sooner than 1864. For eg it was always said we had McDonald ancestors from Cootehill, or McElroy from Creggan in South Armagh. Well people in the Ancestry database matched my DNA who had these names and locations in their family tree and by getting in touch we were able to narrow the search and prove the link.

So I've been able to directly communicate with distant cousins and collaborate, which is marvellous. We can compare notes from our respective trees.

The other thing I've been able to do is download my raw DNA data and upload it to Gedmatch. Now that's all a bit more complicated but I'm learning. Hopefully I'll find some more collaboration partners.

For less than £100 it's been very worthwhile. It mightn't be for everyone. It helps if you have an extensive family tree, as do your matches. I'm delighted with the results. It's helped tidy up some loose ends and start new branches.