Primary school enrolment with fake address

jbourneuse

Hi Everyone

Please help.

I applied a junior infant school for my boy end of Feb. Right before the easter holiday, the principle in that school phone me that they don't have space for my boy. They take 54 pupils this year, my boy is on 55.

The policy they decide to take the kids in are:
1. brother/sister already in school
2. live in the school area (address)
3. prioritized by age

The thing is that they take the address into account but they don't ask us to provide any document to prove the address. And I know there is at least one kid using fake address in the application and that kid got an offer.

I spoke to the principle about the address that they should ask every applicants provide the proof of the address (utility bill etc.). but the principle does not want to take the suggestion for this year. I also mentioned that there is someone using fake address. The principle said he'll phone the neighbour or anyone he knows to verify the applicant's address, but I doubt he'll do it.

My boy is 4 now, he is really smart, love to learn things and surely ready for the school now. Keeping him for another year is wasting his time, one year isn't short. And that school is closest school to us, only 1 mile away from my home

So I am asking for help what I can do now.
There is also an education department in my town, is there someone/department dealing with this kind of thing?
Or shall I tell the principle directly WHO is using fake address (I probably know WHO)

Any suggestion please help.
Thank you very much

byhookorbycrook

If he is 55 on a list of 54 he will probably get a place as some people accept places in many schools. I don't think I would be telling the principal that X is using a false address, but that's just me.

jbourneuse

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If he is 55 on a list of 54 he will probably get a place as some people accept places in many schools. I don't think I would be telling the principal that X is using a false address, but that's just me.

The principle already told me that all 54 have accepted the places.

sareer

jbourneuse wrote: »

The principle already told me that all 54 have accepted the places.

Unfortunately sounds done and dusted. I am not sure anyhing can be done now. Maybe try for additional schools?

cerastes

You applied for a school place for a child at the end of Feb this year and you think a place will be available this year??
How do you know the other person is using a fake address? how do you propose to prove it? why would you think the Principal would even discuss another familys childs application with you? Have they applied previously having lived there?
There may be a process for dealing with that, but I was of the understanding that you need to apply in the year prior to starting?

jbourneuse

cerastes wrote: »

You applied for a school place for a child at the end of Feb this year and you think a place will be available this year??
How do you know the other person is using a fake address? how do you propose to prove it? why would you think the Principal would even discuss another familys childs application with you? Have they applied previously having lived there?
There may be a process for dealing with that, but I was of the understanding that you need to apply in the year prior to starting?

I talked to the principle two years ago for enrolment, I went to him twice last year. It is just the enrolment officially starts this Feb for my boy as he is 4 this year.

Moonbeam

There is still chance of a space as other schools will not have made their offers yet.

jbourneuse

Moonbeam wrote: »

There is still chance of a space as other schools will not have made their offers yet.

That is the best hope. Depending luck.
Just getting dispointed because someone else made the wrong thing.

overmantle

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If he is 55 on a list of 54 he will probably get a place as some people accept places in many schools. I don't think I would be telling the principal that X is using a false address, but that's just me.

I agree. There are some people who accept places in several schools, with no thought for others on the waiting list or for the schools, who are sometimes left in very difficult situations. These parents can't send their child to all of the schools, so it's very likely you will get an offer if you are next on the list.

Rachiee

If hes only 4 i wouldnt be stressing about getting him into school i know you dont want to waste time but unfortunately you dont have much of an option he'll get in next year.

RainyDay

There is a long tradition in this little scam in parts of Dublin, particularly where young families want to stay in the area that they were brought up, but can't afford the house prices. So they move a bit further out, but use Granny's address for the school application. I'm not so sure it is a great idea. The local school is often the best school. Those who travel long distances are often excluded from social activities or after school stuff or evening sports or clubs.

In the UK, they got into some mad stuff, with schools hiring private detectives to validate that people actually lived at the addresses claimed.

For the OP, I'd be very surprised if every one of the 54 accepted children ended up taking their places. There is bound to be one that moves away or emigrates or opts for another school

jbourneuse

RainyDay wrote: »

There is a long tradition in this little scam in parts of Dublin, particularly where young families want to stay in the area that they were brought up, but can't afford the house prices. So they move a bit further out, but use Granny's address for the school application. I'm not so sure it is a great idea. The local school is often the best school. Those who travel long distances are often excluded from social activities or after school stuff or evening sports or clubs.

In the UK, they got into some mad stuff, with schools hiring private detectives to validate that people actually lived at the addresses claimed.

For the OP, I'd be very surprised if every one of the 54 accepted children ended up taking their places. There is bound to be one that moves away or emigrates or opts for another school

Thank you for the reply.
I talked to Section 29 department for appeal. The person in Section 29 told me that there were cases that people found someone live in different area but they got offer, people do appeal regarding to the false address, but did not win. Because the enrolment policy is made by school, if the policy does not mention checking the address and school follows the policy in their enrolment, there is no fault on the school.
So even I appeal, it probably is same.
I end up to rely on my luck now, hope there is one family decide to move away to another school

ted1

jbourneuse wrote: »

The principle already told me that all 54 have accepted the places.

But of the 54 it's probably 30 of theirs 3rd choice and someone will be offered a place in a higher choice later in the summer and then a place becomes free

ted1

jbourneuse wrote: »

I talked to the principle two years ago for enrolment, I went to him twice last year. It is just the enrolment officially starts this Feb for my boy as he is 4 this year.

That's very odd. We were number 69 ( 60 places) and we put our name down at 4 weeks old. She got a place as 10 declined

lazygal

Our first choice school has 30 places but has gone down to number 70 on a waiting list in a previous year. It's really common to have names down in more than one school.

stlane

Don't send your child to school at four! No matter how smart he seems to be, school is not a good place for a four-year old to learn. Most of the countries with the highest literacy and numeracy stats in the World don't start their kids till they are at least six; Finland when they are seven. What's the rush?? Build a proper foundation before you start building walls. No matter how bright a child is they can still extend vocabulary, learn relationships, increase dexterity - outside of school. In fact they will do it better out of school than they will inside. Find a good pre-school that embraces the Aistear programme. He'll thrive there. Your son will be fine. In the words of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - DONT PANIC!! :-)

sadie06

cerastes wrote: »

You applied for a school place for a child at the end of Feb this year and you think a place will be available this year??

You do know that's how the majority of primary schools operate, yes? No application forms are handed out until Feb for the Sept intake.

Before that, you are merely on a mailing list for notification of the meeting for new junior infants, at which the forms are handed out.

It is not possible to 'apply' before that, and I can't think of a single school that operates a first come first served policy.

byhookorbycrook

sadie06 wrote: »

You do know that's how the majority of primary schools operate, yes? No application forms are handed out until Feb for the Sept intake.

Before that, you are merely on a mailing list for notification of the meeting for new junior infants, at which the forms are handed out.

It is not possible to 'apply' before that, and I can't think of a single school that operates a first come first served policy.

Our school is siblings and then 1st come. Many ET schools are 1st come too.

sadie06

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Our school is siblings and then 1st come. Many ET schools are 1st come too.

Wow...for a body that pride themselves on inclusivity, that's quite a restrictive policy. So if you move house when your child is 3 you have zero chance of getting them into the ET school?

tina1040

stlane wrote: »

Don't send your child to school at four! No matter how smart he seems to be, school is not a good place for a four-year old to learn. Most of the countries with the highest literacy and numeracy stats in the World don't start their kids till they are at least six; Finland when they are seven. What's the rush?? Build a proper foundation before you start building walls. No matter how bright a child is they can still extend vocabulary, learn relationships, increase dexterity - outside of school. In fact they will do it better out of school than they will inside. Find a good pre-school that embraces the Aistear programme. He'll thrive there. Your son will be fine. In the words of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - DONT PANIC!! :-)

You can't compare Junior Infants to what 7 year olds would be learning in Finland!!! I can't imagine 7 year olds staying home and then learning Jolly Phonics etc.!!!
Junior Infants curriculum is for 4 year olds. Some parents wait til 5 but that's personal choice.

ahappychappy

ETs like all schools have a degree of flexibility in devising their access. Siblings first is the fairest, it is difficult enough doing one school run before work, managing on school calendar. Then it is first come basis. It will depend on the demand if a three year old would get a spot, in my area there are now four ETs so there would be a reasonable chance.

pwurple

stlane wrote: »

Don't send your child to school at four! No matter how smart he seems to be, school is not a good place for a four-year old to learn. Most of the countries with the highest literacy and numeracy stats in the World don't start their kids till they are at least six; Finland when they are seven. What's the rush?? Build a proper foundation before you start building walls. No matter how bright a child is they can still extend vocabulary, learn relationships, increase dexterity - outside of school. In fact they will do it better out of school than they will inside. Find a good pre-school that embraces the Aistear programme. He'll thrive there. Your son will be fine. In the words of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - DONT PANIC!! :-)

I cringe when that finland thing is rolled out. You know what else they don't have? Poverty, mixed languages. Finish society is wealthy, white, blond, uniform ethos. It is a completely different situation to here.

http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/helsinkitimes/2009mar/issue12-92/helsinki_times12-92.pdf

bluedragonfly

My nephew didn't start school or learning to read till age 7, he's in Sweden where that's the norm. He's now doing a masters following achieving a good degree. I agree don't panic, not starring school when they would be capable will not hold them back, they'll just leave school a year older....and maybe more mature and able to cope with drinking, nightclubs, starting uni etc etc in teenage years.

Albeit, I'd be really surprised if all 54 did take the places they've accepted come sept. They'll have there names down at other schools that haven't offered places yet and at least one is bound to move.