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would you apply for this job?

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  • 10-04-2016 10:36pm
    #1
    mengele
    Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭


    Just saw a job up in an etb site for 2.66 hours which was for a language. Probably 1 period a day for 4 days. Would people actually apply for this job?


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    #2
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    mengele wrote: »
    Just saw a job up in an etb site for 2.66 hours which was for a language. Probably 1 period a day for 4 days. Would people actually apply for this job?

    If it was very close. The job is probably gone but if you haven't had many interviews, it would be good for experience. It may also open up another school for subbing. Does it state what the reason for the vacancy is? There could be something next year? Have you any contacts in the school? I don't trust ETBs in the slightest and it has been their way to keep people on as low hours as possible.


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    #3
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Given my current circumstances no I wouldn't, but when I was starting out I would have. These types of contracts are widespread and there is no shortage of applicants. There are more than ten teachers in my school on less than 5 hours.


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    #4
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Lennon Uptight Values wrote: »
    Given my current circumstances no I wouldn't, but when I was starting out I would have. These types of contracts are widespread and there is no shortage of applicants. There are more than ten teachers in my school on less than 5 hours.

    That's the ETB policy I think. I don't know how anyone could survive on 5/6 hours? They even give out CIDs for those hours. I think I would take my chances with day to day subbing where you definitely make up the 2.66 hours easily in one day. Sub teachers seem to be scarce nowadays and that could be a result of people being tied to a school for a few hours per week.

    If I was a principal I would try and should anyway from the Ward report give people as many hours as possible but I guess there are a few principals who only worry about themselves and not the lives of their employees.


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    #5
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ethical


    Corrupt Crooks! Its time we had a whistleblower in teaching.


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    #6
    sitstill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    ethical wrote: »
    Corrupt Crooks! Its time we had a whistleblower in teaching.

    I worked in an ETB, well VEC at the time, school for a year and I had a RPT contract for 1 hour 20 minutes a week. That is 2 periods a week which were on 2 different days.

    I always got subbing and probably averaged about 6 hours a week as it was a large school but during the holidays I only got paid for my 1 hour 20 which complicated things when I wanted social welfare that summer.

    The majority of teachers in that particular school were part time. All had under 18 hours and many had less than 6 hours.


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    #7
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    That's fairly bad planning by the Principal unless it was a last minute thing. Remember if you get a CID, there's a circular that says all future hours in your subject must be offered to you first and also a Principalmust make every effort to get your CID to 22 hours


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    #8
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    TheDriver wrote: »
    That's fairly bad planning by the Principal unless it was a last minute thing. Remember if you get a CID, there's a circular that says all future hours in your subject must be offered to you first and also a Principalmust make every effort to get your CID to 22 hours

    This is simply ignored wholesale across my ETB. There are multiple part time CID teachers of just about every subject in my school. TUI have not been successful in stopping it happening. The circular is useless.


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    #9
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Were they all taken on in the same year or got CIDs based on job shares maybe?


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    #10
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Were they all taken on in the same year or got CIDs based on job shares maybe?

    No. They have been taken on each year starting ten years ago. There are 19 part time CID teachers. It's a deliberate policy not just some accident or coincidence. On top of that are another 9 part time teachers hired in the past year or so, all working towards more part time CIDs. It's nothing short of a disgrace.


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    #11
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    Surely this is only possible if those with the CIDs allow it to happen? If the hours are there, they're there. If the school hires a new teacher rather than offering the hours to a qualified teacher with a CID already in place then there must be some sort of legal avenue the teacher can go down, right?


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    #12
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Correct realjohn once the subjects are the same or there is another reason such as need 3 maths techera because they're streamed and on at same time and hence cant give hours to same teacher. but that's a very rare situation a school would be in. Unfortunately some principals give the rest of us a bad name


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    #13
    PMBC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭PMBC


    Lennon Uptight Values wrote: »
    No. They have been taken on each year starting ten years ago. There are 19 part time CID teachers. It's a deliberate policy not just some accident or coincidence. On top of that are another 9 part time teachers hired in the past year or so, all working towards more part time CIDs. It's nothing short of a disgrace.

    Whistleblow. Report to Dept of ED.


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    #14
    PMBC
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭PMBC


    Lennon Uptight Values wrote: »
    This is simply ignored wholesale across my ETB. There are multiple part time CID teachers of just about every subject in my school. TUI have not been successful in stopping it happening. The circular is useless.

    Has TUI written formally to employer/ETB. Is there not a teacher's rep. on the Board?


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    #15
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Surely this is only possible if those with the CIDs allow it to happen? If the hours are there, they're there. If the school hires a new teacher rather than offering the hours to a qualified teacher with a CID already in place then there must be some sort of legal avenue the teacher can go down, right?

    The TUI have been involved on a number of occasions. What more can we do when TUI are not successful? Your fixed term hours are at risk if you are seen to rock the boat - believe me I know that only too well to my own cost.

    The circular is vague and includes a get out clause of "considering the curricular needs of the school". Apparently satisfying the curricular needs of my school requires having 28 part time teachers with at least three per subject. Not to mention another two teachers with no timetable at all so the DPs life is made easy for covering classes.


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    #16
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    On many occasions with the union involved, I find the correct union people have not been contacted or local delegates are not effective in their role. The curricular needs Line is for what I suggested above and you must have a lot of facts to back it up.


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    #17
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Lennon Uptight Values wrote: »
    The TUI have been involved on a number of occasions. What more can we do when TUI are not successful? Your fixed term hours are at risk if you are seen to rock the boat - believe me I know that only too well to my own cost.

    The circular is vague and includes a get out clause of "considering the curricular needs of the school". Apparently satisfying the curricular needs of my school requires having 28 part time teachers with at least three per subject. Not to mention another two teachers with no timetable at all so the DPs life is made easy for covering classes.

    Etbs are circuses. People wonder why they don't get great results or attract certain students. It is clear why. Then again the whole recruitment process is rotten from the top down so it is no surprise what goes on.


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    #18
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,434 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Etbs are circuses. People wonder why they don't get great results or attract certain students. It is clear why. Then again the whole recruitment process is rotten from the top down so it is no surprise what goes on.
    One size doesn't fit all/paint all with one brush. SoMe ETBs are great with zero nepotism and great support for schools with some very high achieving schools on the books


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    #19
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Got my job not knowing a sinners soul in my school or the ETB. I resent this tarring of ETB's as full of nepotism, drives me nuts. Plenty of teachers in my staff who got their job on merit and our students do very well thank you very much-we are significantly oversubscribed


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    #20
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Got my job not knowing a sinners soul in my school or the ETB. I resent this tarring of ETB's as full of nepotism, drives me nuts. Plenty of teachers in my staff who got their job on merit and our students do very well thank you very much-we are significantly oversubscribed

    Of course I'm not insinuating that everyone in the etb were handed jobs. What I am referring to is the management of hours more so in relation to this thread. My comment did come across quite scathing on a second read.


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    #21
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Nepotism in hours? I haven't seen that either. Though I have seen complete exploitation of young teachers with the hope of hours and the total over use of small contracts including 17.6hrs


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    #22
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Nepotism in hours? I haven't seen that either. Though I have seen complete exploitation of young teachers with the hope of hours and the total over use of small contracts including 17.6hrs

    That is what I was referring to.


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    #23
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Ah ok, nepotism is favouring relatives or friends hence my confusion. In that case I completely agree. One year in particular four of our staff members were offered 17.6hr CIDs. Four?! I mean come on, 18hrs is a full time job


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    #24
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Ah ok, nepotism is favouring relatives or friends hence my confusion. In that case I completely agree. One year in particular four of our staff members were offered 17.6hr CIDs. Four?! I mean come on, 18hrs is a full time job

    That is totally rotten. Why would talent stay at a place like this that simple uses an employee? (I know the answer). This is the exact systems which aids to the slow but pernicious demoralising of teachers and once they become permanent on 22 hours after years of slogging it can be easy to sit back so to speak after this treatment.


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    #25
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Or you don't sit back, you challenge your 22hrs and encourage the other three to do the same. I got it after getting the union involved. One got it without an argument as it was an error on the contract (apparently?!). One didn't bother and stayed on theirs. The last was told that they really needed a second subject because timetabling didn't allow the full 22. They took it on board and will get it now. I haven't sat back, I've got informed (as have two of the others) and am now on the union workplace committee.

    I will say things are much better now, and there are far less part timers on staff though I still don't agree with a system that would issue those contracts without noticing that it was absurd


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