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clubhouse and pitch owned by trustees?

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  • 10-04-2016 8:37pm
    #1
    WhiteWalls
    Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭


    I only found out that my local pitch and clubhouse is basically owned by a few people from the area who are called trustees.

    Is this the case with most clubs?


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    #2
    tickingclock
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭tickingclock


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    I only found out that my local pitch and clubhouse is basically owned by a few people from the area who are called trustees.

    Is this the case with most clubs?

    I'm involved in a local GAA club. The trustees don't own ours. They are liable if we ever can't repay a loan. They don't actually own the clubhouse and pitches.


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    #3
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,289 ✭✭✭megadodge


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    I only found out that my local pitch and clubhouse is basically owned by a few people from the area who are called trustees.

    Is this the case with most clubs?

    That's the case in a lot of sports clubs not just GAA ones.


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    #4
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    I only found out that my local pitch and clubhouse is basically owned by a few people from the area who are called trustees.

    Is this the case with most clubs?

    The trustees do not own the club and pitches, if they are vested in the GAA. There general duties are responsibility for loans and for holding the property in trust for the club

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #5
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,289 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    The trustees do not own the club and pitches, if they are vested in the GAA. There general duties are responsibility for loans and for holding the property in trust for the club

    Land Registry doesn't register trustees anymore. The actual trustees are registered as the property owners on the Land Registry system.


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    #6
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    megadodge wrote: »
    Land Registry doesn't register trustees anymore. The actual trustees are registered as the property owners on the Land Registry system.

    As far as I know it is still legally held in trust. As well as the local trustees there is usually 1-2 GAA trustees from county and province. For something underhand to be done all trustees must sign.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #7
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    I only found out that my local pitch and clubhouse is basically owned by a few people from the area who are called trustees.

    Is this the case with most clubs?

    They only own it in their capacity as trustees. It's pretty standard stuff for GAA clubs and other types of sports clubs. Clubs, as entities, can't legally own property or borrow money, it must be done by Trustees.


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    #8
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    tickingclock wrote: »
    I'm involved in a local GAA club. The trustees don't own ours. They are liable if we ever can't repay a loan. They don't actually own the clubhouse and pitches.

    Their only liability is in their function as Trustees (usually of the collateral securing the loan). Trustees aren't personally liable for the club's debts.


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    #9
    WhiteWalls
    Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭WhiteWalls


    namloc1980 wrote:
    Their only liability is in their function as Trustees (usually of the collateral securing the loan). Trustees aren't personally liable for the club's debts.


    If they put their own assets up against a loan then surely they are liable?


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    #10
    Danville
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Danville


    Clubs are not legal entities and so cannot get loans.
    The trustees are elected by the club members.
    Club trustees are the ones who get the finance in their own joint personal names, The club then does the fundraising to repay the loan.
    The trustees are so jointly and individually liable in the event of a default and any security they may have put in place with the bank becomes liable to forfeiture.


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    #11
    WhiteWalls
    Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭WhiteWalls


    Danville wrote:
    Clubs are not legal entities and so cannot get loans. The trustees are elected by the club members. Club trustees are the ones who get the finance in their own joint personal names, The club then does the fundraising to repay the loan. The trustees are so jointly and individually liable in the event of a default and any security they may have put in place with the bank becomes liable to forfeiture.


    Legally they own the pitch and have control over it though?


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    #12
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭howiya


    Have a look at pages 170-172 of the official guide

    http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/2015%20Official%20Guide%20-%20Part%201.pdf


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    #13
    Danville
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭Danville


    howiya wrote: »
    Have a look at pages 170-172 of the official guide

    http://www.leinstergaa.ie/_fileupload/2015%20Official%20Guide%20-%20Part%201.pdf

    To clarify my original post further:
    Financial institutions will no longer lend to clubs as when problems ever developed, nobody in the club would take responsibility.
    It was always the fault of a previous committee!

    So now lending is done to the trustees personally.


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    #14
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,180 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Danville wrote: »
    To clarify my original post further:
    Financial institutions will no longer lend to clubs as when problems ever developed, nobody in the club would take responsibility.
    It was always the fault of a previous committee!

    So now lending is done to the trustees personally.

    Lending was always done to Trustee's

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #15
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    WhiteWalls wrote: »
    If they put their own assets up against a loan then surely they are liable?

    A trustee who put up their own personal assets as security against a club loan would seriously want their head examined!


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    #16
    Boom__Boom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,101 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    A trustee who put up their own personal assets as security against a club loan would seriously want their head examined!

    I'd really like to see the GAA bring in rules that pretty much forbid clubs from going into debt unless they have extremely good reasons for doing so and extremely good plans in terms of paying any loans off.

    I'd also like to see some rules about landswaps/sales of club lands and the like. A not insignificant number of clubs got in bother during the boom time doing deals with developers and the GAA don't seem to have put any rules in place to stop more instances of the the same happening again down the line.


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    #17
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Have any trustees ever got in bother due to being liable for a loan repayment that the club could not meet?


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    #18
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,068 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Have any trustees ever got in bother due to being liable for a loan repayment that the club could not meet?

    Trustees aren't personally liable for club debts. The only way they could be liable is if they put up their own assets (which would be insane) or through deliberate actions or misconduct that affected the club financially. In that case the club could sue the Trustee.


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