Traded in car - getting eflow bills. Also no tax book yet for new car

chops018

Hi all,

Bare with me for a bit please, although I will try to make this as short as possible and not to identify the dealer (yet anyway).

So six weeks ago I traded in my car - I needed a diesel as I was changing from getting a train to driving to work.

Anyway, this dealer had a proper place with about 20-30 cars there, website, the whole lot. He also has his company registered with the CRO. So I assumed I could trust him.

I signed my tax book and left it with him as he said he will hold it and send it away when a person buys it.

I then said to him ok no problem, so will I sign the tax book for the car I am getting now? He said no that he does all that online. I said ok no problem. Got home and felt that what he said was fishy but checked it out online and seems dealers can do it all online. Rang the tax office and they also confirmed this. I thought great that if he does it online I will probably get the tax book really quick.

4 weeks and no sign of the tax book.

I rang him but got through to his "employee", (he seems to redirect his mobile to this employee a lot) and I asked what the story was with the tax book and he said oh it was sent, I said well I rang Shannon and they have got no notification. He then got angry and accused me of being smart with him, and said that he was only trying to help me and that he was told by the guy who sold me the car that it was sent. I backed down and said ok I'm sorry maybe I was being a bit smart, but said that it's frustrating as it's been 4 weeks and I need to tax the car to drive to work. He then told me not to worry about it and he will say it to the guy I did the deal with again and told me to ring back, assured me it would be sorted.

That was near Easter so I said ah well I will ring them again the end of next week and hopefully I get it in the meantime.

I ended up going back to work and half forgot.

Got my dad to ring on my behalf as I was in work. He rang last week and got through to the same guy, asked him what was going on as he told us that he was doing it online (dad was with me when I bought the car by the way) and that obviously if he did it online that we should have got the tax book back quickly. The guy then said oh he didn't do it online he posted the tax book and that maybe it was lost in the post. My dad said well we never asked to sign it before it was sent which is illegal so what's going on. Said look we don't do things like that here that it's all just a mistake and assured my dad that it would be sorted and that if it was lost that they can apply for a new one for us. Dad left it at that and said right if we hear nothing he will ring back next week.

So, he rang today when I was in work, guy who never seems to know what's going on answered and said he was on his lunch, he asked to speak with the person who we originally bought the car off (who is the owner) but he wasn't available and said to call back later. My dad tried to call back shortly after that but got through to the same guy (bear in mind this mobile number is supposed to be the owners), the guy got angry and said look I told you I'm on lunch etc. so my dad got angry back started to say do you think I want to be ringing you at all, you're the one that doesn't know what's going on and we just want to get the tax book so we can tax the car. Guy continued to get irate, as did my dad, so my dad told him to lose the attitude and if he's supposed to be an employee of this company but knows nothing. Anyway he gave him another number for the guy we dealt with and he got through to him and this guy started apologizing etc. saying he would sort it out and that's not how they run things (could be true, we could have just got unlucky).

My dad then said right hopefully that will sort things.

Anyway I got home this evening at 7.30 pm to a letter with 2 eflow penalties from the car that I traded in and I hit the roof. Funnily enough the ad for my old car is still on his site for sale so I screenshotted the ad and circled the dates which proves I wasn't the owner of that car at the time the penalties came in. Doubt I will need it anyway as they are a registered company but just incase it is magically taken down.

I rang eflow and they said that I should try sort it with the dealer but they put the penalties on hold till it's sorted their end or if a change of ownership comes through.

I honestly don't know what to do for:

1) The tax book and getting it sorted as it's been almost 6 weeks now and still nothing (they keep saying they will sort it but don't appear to be doing anything).
2) The eflow penalties.... should I expect the dealer to pay it? If a new registration comes through then maybe they will be billed?


Any advice or tips welcome please.

Atlantic Dawn

100% blame is with the dealer, I would contact them tomorrow and tell them you are going to send them a solicitors letter. Question them as to whether they are trying to avoid paying tax on the sale of your car and tell them you will contact Revenue if you don't see a change of ownership registered on motortax.ie for the car within a week. You have followed the exact procedure in trading it in, the ball is in their court as to how they conduct their business...

Did the dealer get you to fill in form RF105?
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/RF105_en.pdf

If you sell your vehicle to a motor dealer, you have to complete Form RF105 (pdf) which is available from the motor dealer. The completed form should be returned to the Driver and Vehicle Computer Services Division, while the Vehicle Licensing Certificate and Vehicle Registration Certificates (Vehicle Registration Certificate for post-April 2004 vehicles) are given to the motor dealer.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/buying_or_selling_a_vehicle/change_of_ownership.html

chops018

I never filled that in as to be honest I wasn't even aware that that's what was done and took his word for everything.

I can't go up but my dad said he will ring/call up for me.

Well I could be wrong but I don't see what a Solicitors letter could do apart from scare tactics or just pursue them in a civil action which would be a waste of money going to Court etc. You can't initiate proceedings looking for a tax book to be sent. Well technically you could I suppose as they are breaching the contract but it would be a horrendous waste of money. Maybe I am wrong.

Is there any other way to go about it?

colm_mcm

Put the reg of the new and old car into the vehicle transaction query section of www.motortax.ie and see if it was transferred to a dealer name.

This is done online in place of an rf105. My guess is the guy is a muppet and doesn't do his paperwork or chase customers for tax books why they trade stuff in

chops018

Thanks.

I did that already but unfortunately "No Vehicle Registration Certificate issued in the last 3 months" comes up for the new car I got and the car that I traded in.

And the thing that is pissing me off the most is that whenever you ring them the "employee" has a terrible attitude and doesn't seem to want to help at all.

When you do get through to the owner, very rare, he's the opposite, promises to sort everything but nothing seems to be done.

I wouldn't mind if we were ringing them constantly but we only rang them 4-5 times over 6 weeks.

colm_mcm

The guy should have put the car in the dealer code before doing the change of ownership online.
If he has indeed changed ownership online, he'd still have the cert.
I'll bet he doesn't have the cert.

chops018

I'd well take that bet in that he doesn't have the cert.

But what I can't understand is why he would bother selling a car without a cert or something that would sort it quickly when he could as surely he would have been aware that whoever he sells it to would be chasing him up over the cert.

I was fuming this evening with the eflow penalties along with the fact that I still haven't got the tax book back made it a lot worse.

Atlantic Dawn

chops018 wrote: »

I'd well take that bet in that he doesn't have the cert.

But what I can't understand is why he would bother selling a car without a cert or something that would sort it quickly when he could as surely he would have been aware that whoever he sells it to would be chasing him up over the cert.

I was fuming this evening with the eflow penalties along with the fact that I still haven't got the tax book back made it a lot worse.

He probably sold the car on to some part time unofficial dealer and handed him the signed cert.

colm_mcm

Usually they'll hope that you get a replacement cert your self through a very tiresome process involving a commissioner of the peace.

chops018

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

He probably sold the car on to some part time unofficial dealer and handed him the signed cert.

Does that mean I may be liable?

robtri

Do you have a receipt of sale from the dealer showing you sold the car??

if So get onto Eflow with that, they often take that as proof and will stop billing you.

If not I would be down on the dealers door in the morning, not leaving till it is sorted out...

chops018

Yes, I have a receipt.

It is just from one of those crappy receipt books though and has no company name on it.

But it does include the car information of the car I bought and has the sellers name and number.

Would this be enough?

Anyway my dad is heading up there tomorrow (as I will be in work) to see what the story is and hopefully get it all sorted.

mickdw

chops018 wrote: »

Yes, I have a receipt.

It is just from one of those crappy receipt books though and has no company name on it.

But it does include the car information of the car I bought and has the sellers name and number.

Would this be enough?

Anyway my dad is heading up there tomorrow (as I will be in work) to see what the story is and hopefully get it all sorted.

Is there anything stopping you at this stage from going in there with the transfer to a dealer form in hand and getting that signed into his garage name from actual transfer date.
Re the new car, I'd forget about dealer and go through the annoying process of getting form stamped by main dealer and commissioner of oaths. It is a pain but at least you will be making headway and not be frustrated from being f*cked about.