Our Cleaner is Stealing from us

LegacyUser

Hi all,

We get a cleaner to do some work in the house for a couple of hours every two weeks. Turns out she's stealing from us.

Any advice as to how to deal with it - she has a key to the house

Thanks

Merkin

How do you know she is stealing from you?

LegacyUser

Suspected for a while and left some bait for her today to confirm

LegacyUser

We have suspected for a while - to be honest we knew but lots going on and only recently confirmed. Left money in a drawer today and it was gone when we came home

uck51js9zml2yt

Its hard to prove.
YOu could talk to the Guards but for immediate resolution, tell her that her services are no longer required.

If she wants a reference. You dont need to give one but cant give a bad one.
She worked with you from XX date to YY date.

ted1

Record it again and then go to guards. Don't let her do it to another family

punisher5112

Get a hidden cctv camera set it up and also in good position to get culprit.


Then when you have the footage you can do 2 things ...
1 report to cops or 2 confront her with the evidence and give her a chance to return all taken.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the reply

Been speaking with my partner and we reckon she has probably taken hundreds of euro...we just thought the other person was taking the money.

<mod snip, sorry crosses the line to legal advise>

Xterminator

hidden cctv really?

do you need the drama?

Tell the cleaner her services are no longer required. problem solved. everyone gets on with their lives.

screamer

Xterminator wrote: »

hidden cctv really?

do you need the drama?

Tell the cleaner her services are no longer required. problem solved. everyone gets on with their lives.

This and change your locks. She may have a copy made and if she's ok to steal from you I'd not be ok knowing she could have access to your house at any time.

ArtyC

Did you hire the cleaner from an agency? Id report it to them if you did

homerjay2005

Xterminator wrote: »

hidden cctv really?

do you need the drama?

Tell the cleaner her services are no longer required. problem solved. everyone gets on with their lives.

f*ck that, she should pay back what she has taken.

put in a hidden camera, then show here the proof. tell her unless she pays back everything she took, you will call the cops.

should solve most of it.

Lux23

Hidden camera? I think that sounds a bit extreme and I would seek legal advice before considering this. But perhaps you should call the Guards and ask their opinion? Since it's their area of expertise.

Neyite

Just go to the Gardai and leave them, the professionals, to worry about entrapment /CCTV or whatever, and they can conduct an investigation in a proper way. Amateur sleuthing with bait/ CCTV might only undermine or invalidate any evidence the Gardai try to gather.

If she is stealing hundreds from you, she could be stealing thousands from another person she cleans for. It could be an old person getting their pension or savings plundered. If she is employed by an agency, she is destroying the reputation of that agency - a business someone has worked hard to set up.

Meanwhile, gather things of value and stuff like bank books and ask someone trusted to hold on to them for you if the cleaner is due back in.

You cant go in guns blazing and accuse someone of theft - you could end up in bother as a result. You really need to report it properly.

LegacyUser

Stealing Cleaner wrote: »

Thanks for the reply

Been speaking with my partner and we reckon she has probably taken hundreds of euro...we just thought the other person was taking the money.

What other person? Did I miss something here? If you have a doubt in your mind you can't just be accusing people

Rubberchikken

if it were me, i'd just say that she's no longer needed. give her a basic reference if requested and leave it at that.
if you want the hassle of gardai etc then make a formal complaint but you have to weigh up if it's really worth it.

was she referred to you or did you go through an agency? if either of these, then a chat with the people there may shed some light, but if she came without references then i think you were just unlucky.

Keane2baMused

Rubberchikken wrote: »

if it were me, i'd just say that she's no longer needed. give her a basic reference if requested and leave it at that.
if you want the hassle of gardai etc then make a formal complaint but you have to weigh up if it's really worth it.
.

I would definitely say it's worth it if it means she won't go on to rob other people blind! Imagine she was with an elderly or disabled individual next? She could completely screw them over.

No way would I want that on my conscience.

OP you need to go to the gardai and see what they say.

tomwaits48

where did you source the cleaner from?

mud

observer123 wrote: »

What other person? Did I miss something here? If you have a doubt in your mind you can't just be accusing people

They mean their partner thought they were taking the money and vice versa only to find out it was (allegedly) the maid.


I wouldn't go down the cctv route without professional advice. It's a tough situation. You don't want to leave yourself exposed by accusing her nor do you want her to go on and fleece others!

If it's an agency I would talk to them and see if there is a protocol for this situation.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the responses

Individual was referred by a friend which is a bit akward. We did a thorough check of the house today and it seems like the cleaner has helped herself to vouchers, presents and hundreds of euro.

Unfortunately there's no proof so nothing to be done. I'm going to talk to the guards about it but don't expect anything from it.

Inclined to change the locks and tell her that we know what she has done and leave it at that

Thanks

topmanamillion

It'd be unfortunate if the OP accidently left their camcorder or other video recording device running while the cleaner was in the house and just happened to catch them in the act.

pablo128

topmanamillion wrote: »

It'd be unfortunate if the OP accidently left their camcorder or other video recording device running while the cleaner was in the house and just happened to catch them in the act.

Don't you have to have signs up if you want to use CCTV against someone?

punisher5112

pablo128 wrote: »

Don't you have to have signs up if you want to use CCTV against someone?

Domestic no.

If business yes.

Op could put a small sticker in front window and one on the rear they would be well covered.

If for instance they do plan on using footage it would be recommended not to leave valubles in plain sight so that would be a defence that it was entrapment.

If one were to do it they would be best have something left in a drawer but also show on the footage they did place it there and then replace camera back in position.

LegacyUser

Have you treated her like your employee or have you paid her cash in hand.I would assume you have a tax bill coming if you haven't followed the correct path also.
It may be easiest to change the locks and put it down to a lesson learned as she can also report you !

arayess

Anon14 wrote: »

Have you treated her like your employee or have you paid her cash in hand.I would assume you have a tax bill coming if you haven't followed the correct path also.
It may be easiest to change the locks and put it down to a lesson learned as she can also report you !

why would the OP have a tax bill?
There is no tax obligation on the OP

tinkerbell

Anon14 wrote: »

Have you treated her like your employee or have you paid her cash in hand.I would assume you have a tax bill coming if you haven't followed the correct path also.
It may be easiest to change the locks and put it down to a lesson learned as she can also report you !

What does a tax bill have to do with anything? A cleaner is self employed - it is their responsibility to sort out their tax affairs, not the OP!

I'd be setting up a hidden camera, set a trap and recording her. Then go to the gardai. Or just go directly to the gardai.

But for goodness sake, do not follow advice such as just tell her to leave or give her a basic reference (WTF?!) because who knows who else the scumbag is stealing from and who will go on to steal from others.

CaraMay

Why would you give her a reference ?????

I would let her work and forget to pay her and then the following time when she asks for the money tell her you are taking that in lieu of all she stole. I would still give her name to the police in case it happens again which it likely will.

Does she give you receipts? If not, I would report her to the tax man snd tell get you see doing it.

o1s1n

CaraMay wrote: »

Why would you give her a reference ?????

I also find this a little mind boggling.

Keane2baMused

Anon14 wrote: »

Have you treated her like your employee or have you paid her cash in hand.I would assume you have a tax bill coming if you haven't followed the correct path also.
It may be easiest to change the locks and put it down to a lesson learned as she can also report you !

The cleaner is responsible for organising her own tax affairs, she would be considered self employed.

It's very unlikely she would even be earning enough from the OP to pay tax on it anyway.

Rubberchikken

it's not the op's rtesponsibility to be concerned if the cleaner is stealing from others.
tbh, if i was experiencing this and it happened a second time, i would have called time on the person at that stage.
allowing it to continue and leaving vouchers, presents and hundreds of euro around smacks of carelessness.

talk to the gardai byall means, but learn from the whole episode.

LegacyUser

Yep your dead right - kicking ourselves. Lots going on in our lives but still!!

intheclouds

Rubberchikken wrote: »

it's not the op's rtesponsibility to be concerned if the cleaner is stealing from others.

Dunno about that tbh.

If you know someone is committing a crime you should report them. Its one of the ways in which people in a society help each other, by reporting crimes so that hopefully the person responsible for them is prevented from subjecting someone else to them.

Sure, legally the OP doesnt have to do diddly, but morally the correct thing to do would be report it to the Guards.

LegacyUser

Going anon for this, I suggest you contact the guards and report the situation because at least in the future you have something to fall back on in the event there is evidence. I was accused of theft in an office unbeknownst to me until I left and couldn't understand why I couldn't get work in the area I specialised in, once I was informed I contacted the gardai and they conducted an investigation. I will be following through with all formal procedures and making sure my previous employer are held accountable for damages and loss of earnings as a result. As far as I'm aware the "theft" wasn't even reported to the gardai, despite any claims that they did. Had they done so at the time it could have been fully investigated and I could have been cleared of any charges. There were security cameras on the premises and I could account for my whereabouts at all times. I was unaware that there was an employee there with a bone to pick and given the evidence now it looks like she may be charged with committing fraud. It's really important that you follow this up with the guards, not just for your sake but in the event of your employee bringing charges against you.

Keane2baMused

Rubberchikken wrote: »

it's not the op's rtesponsibility to be concerned if the cleaner is stealing from others.

Typical old Irish view. Turn a blind eye, I don't care once it's not happening to me!

Absolutely senseless, it is morally wrong to ignore someone one directly breaking the law when you have the power to put an end to it.

ShiverinEskimo

Report it to the guards. Forget about clandestine cctv camera set ups etc. Just both of you go to the station and both make statements saying you left money in a drawer and the only person with access between then and when it went missing was the cleaner. Explain that the issue started after she started and list everything that's missing if you can.

Terminate her employment, change the locks and leave it to the guards to investigate. For all you know there are other complaints against her. It's possible that enquiries at other houses she cleans will uncover more undetected thefts.

She could be skimming thousands from multiple properties.

Esel

intheclouds wrote: »

Dunno about that tbh.

If you know someone is committing a crime you should report them. Its one of the ways in which people in a society help each other, by reporting crimes so that hopefully the person responsible for them is prevented from subjecting someone else to them.

Sure, legally the OP doesnt have to do diddly, but morally the correct thing to do would be report it to the Guards.

In this case, the OP does not 'know' - they (strongly) suspect.

I know what you mean at the same time...

screamer

It's 4 days since you posted this I hope you've shown her the door and changed the locks already. She's be long gone if she'd stolen from me. Your home is your castle you don't let people rob it.

intheclouds

Esel wrote: »

In this case, the OP does not 'know' - they (strongly) suspect.

I know what you mean at the same time...

Well thats actually part of the same point tbh, you report it to the Guards so that they can investigate. None of this cctv or setting traps silliness.

The OP knows they are being robbed and they think its the cleaner - thats what they tell the Guards.

davmol

Get a 50 euro note.Put a discreet but distinguishable mark on it.Plant it where she will see it.Talk to the guards before hand and tell them when she will be working.
As soon as she leaves-check the cash is taken and have to guards outside ready to pounce.
You now have evidence.Tell her offside that you have evidence of that and the other amounts she robbed.
Tell her you will give her 2 weeks to pay it back if not you will go to the guards with everything and prosecute her to the full.

Get your cash back and prosecute her anyway.Disgusting leech.If she is doing it to you she is doing it to others and this needs to stop.

beertons

I wouldn't bother. You won't get anything back that's been taken. Just cancel her and get someone else. Tell your friend who recommended her, she could be thieving from them too.

retro:electro

davmol wrote: »

Get a 50 euro note.Put a discreet but distinguishable mark on it.Plant it where she will see it.Talk to the guards before hand and tell them when she will be working.
As soon as she leaves-check the cash is taken and have to guards outside ready to pounce.
You now have evidence.Tell her offside that you have evidence of that and the other amounts she robbed.
Tell her you will give her 2 weeks to pay it back if not you will go to the guards with everything and prosecute her to the full.

Get your cash back and prosecute her anyway.Disgusting leech.If she is doing it to you she is doing it to others and this needs to stop.

I don't know what planet you live on, but there isn't a notion that any guard would ever wait outside someone's house waiting to hop on the suspected thief; you've been watching too many movies.

intheclouds

davmol wrote: »

Get a 50 euro note.Put a discreet but distinguishable mark on it.Plant it where she will see it.Talk to the guards before hand and tell them when she will be working.
As soon as she leaves-check the cash is taken and have to guards outside ready to pounce.
You now have evidence.Tell her offside that you have evidence of that and the other amounts she robbed.
Tell her you will give her 2 weeks to pay it back if not you will go to the guards with everything and prosecute her to the full.

Get your cash back and prosecute her anyway.Disgusting leech.If she is doing it to you she is doing it to others and this needs to stop.

This is actually funny.

Even when a serious crime has been committed or is being committed it can be difficult to even get an answer to the phone ringing in the local station, let alone get them to call out and actually, you know, deal with the crime.

To think theyd be willing to actually hang around and wait to pounce on someone that you have entrapped is hilarious.

Telly is not reality.

ShiverinEskimo

davmol wrote: »

Get a 50 euro note.Put a discreet but distinguishable mark on it.Plant it where she will see it.Talk to the guards before hand and tell them when she will be working.
As soon as she leaves-check the cash is taken and have to guards outside ready to pounce.
You now have evidence.Tell her offside that you have evidence of that and the other amounts she robbed.
Tell her you will give her 2 weeks to pay it back if not you will go to the guards with everything and prosecute her to the full.

Get your cash back and prosecute her anyway.Disgusting leech.If she is doing it to you she is doing it to others and this needs to stop.

OP - do not suggest this to your local guards. There's a good chance you'll be sectioned under the mental health act.

As above, make the complaint, give your statement, sack the cleaner and change your locks.

That's really all there is to it. Anything else is hollywood.

5rtytry56

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

OP - do not suggest this to your local guards. There's a good chance you'll be sectioned under the mental health act.

As above, make the complaint, give your statement, sack the cleaner and change your locks.

That's really all there is to it. Anything else is hollywood.

Agreed. And the Irish Council for Civil Liberties might be contacted. And there is a very high probability they would take the side of the cleaning worker.
Surprised this has'nt been mentioned so far. Also, I'm pretty certain the Irish Council for Civil Liberties
http://www.iccl.ie/
would have a presence on boards.ie.

Eimee90

Have you confronted her yet, OP? I would film it only it to be a hundred percent sure.

dudara

@elsa21 - Welcome to Personal Issues. Please note that requesting updates is strictly forbidden in the PI forums. I'd suggest reading the forum charter before posting again.

dudara