Crewcab measurement

KwackerJack

Can someone one please explain the crewcab measurements for a passenger jeep conversion.

I don't want all the legality banter just the measurements.

Thanks

s14driftking

Think it's 40something percent load space behind rear seats. What make jeep is it

mullingar

High of loading aperture(from the floor to the roof) must be a min of 800mm
Area of Aperture (door opening) must be greater than 12800cm*2
Length of cargo bay must be at least 30% of the wheel base. Measurement is taken from the top of the seat (positioned at a angle of 25 degrees) to the back door.

Some vehicles that qualify for Crewcabbing:

Toyota Landcruiser/Amazon
Mitsubishi Pajero
Range Rover
Isuzu Trooper
Nissan Patrol
Land Rover Discovery
New Model BMW X5

pcardin

mullingar wrote: »

High of loading aperture(from the floor to the roof) must be a min of 800mm
Area of Aperture (door opening) must be greater than 12800cm*2
Length of cargo bay must be at least 30% of the wheel base. Measurement is taken from the top of the seat (positioned at a angle of 25 degrees) to the back door.

Some vehicles that qualify for Crewcabbing:

Toyota Landcruiser/Amazon
Mitsubishi Pajero
Range Rover
Isuzu Trooper
Nissan Patrol
Land Rover Discovery
New Model BMW X5

what about these below< seen them on donedeal selling as crew cabs?

bmw x5 old model
volvo xc90
lexus rx
mercedes ml old an new model
audi allroad

xabi

mullingar wrote: »

High of loading aperture(from the floor to the roof) must be a min of 800mm
Area of Aperture (door opening) must be greater than 12800cm*2
Length of cargo bay must be at least 30% of the wheel base. Measurement is taken from the top of the seat (positioned at a angle of 25 degrees) to the back door.

Some vehicles that qualify for Crewcabbing:

Toyota Landcruiser/Amazon
Mitsubishi Pajero
Range Rover
Isuzu Trooper
Nissan Patrol
Land Rover Discovery
New Model BMW X5

E70 or F15?

KwackerJack

I've a 2006 Kia Sorento that I'm putting back on the road after the transfer box decided to die (Common Issue)

I've a car also but would rather keep the seats in the jeep just in case

newcavanman

New VW toraeg must be ok. I know two people have bought them brand new, crew cab since xmas. Bought from VW main dealers

KwackerJack

I see Sorento's online that are crew cabbed but I want to be sure in case I ever hit a check point.

Gumbo

pcardin wrote: »

what about these below< seen them on donedeal selling as crew cabs?

bmw x5 old model
volvo xc90
lexus rx
mercedes ml old an new model
audi allroad

old model X5 (E53 Shape) do not qualify. Many got through when the legislation was only passed and the Tax office were not up to speed on them, they accepted the Engineers Report as gospel.

I now have it from a Senior member of Motor Tax that there is a buliten on the X5 (E53) and any that come in for conversion are rejected, there are also a few other jeeps listed.

I got my ML done by some NSAI place and i'm also told that the old ML's are ok.

The Lexus RX does not qualify either, the company that done my conversion told me that too.

I was speaking to Cafco the other day and the E70 X5 qualify if they are the 7 seater model, obviously the rear 2 seats will have to be removed but seemly theres a bigger volume there due to the rear 2 seats in the first place.

hi5

Ford Kuga.

R.O.R

There's something to do with the weights now as well. Not sure if that's new or just being enforced, but I struggled to get someone to price me on crew cabbing a panel van last month and that was due to weight issues.

I know someone who had a full fat last model range rover done recently and that had to be 4 seats to get through.

KwackerJack

Are the Sorento'so on the rejected list?

Av8or

How about the Jeep Grand Cherokee?

Av8or

How about the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Mercedes LWB G-wagen?

R.O.R

Av8or wrote: »

How about the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Mercedes LWB G-wagen?

Agenlli are selling a 5 Seat Grand Cherokee Commercial - http://fiat2010tallaght.webzone.ie/used-cars/Jeep/Grand-Cherokee/GRAND-CHEEROKEE/201314545313878490/

So that must be possible, and should have a type approval code.

God knows about a G-Wagen, but it's probably cheaper to buy and run a standard passenger vehicle than it would be to buy a used G-Wagen and convert.

Guy:Incognito

Theres a load of xc90s knocking about. Have they since been stopped or can they still be done?

Av8or

I spoke to one of the conversion companies earlier today and they say that the Jeep Grand Cherokee does not qualify. Given this, I decided to see exactly what the rules are, and there are a few documents on the RSAI website.



Ignoring the lashing point requirements, there are two main areas.

1. The main criteria relating to weights is that a goods-carrying capacity must be equal or higher than the person-carrying capacity. The weights/loadings must be calculated. They use the figure of 68(kg) as an additional passenger weight. For a 4/5 seater crewcab, the formula is this:-
P-(M+Nx68) is greater or equal to N x 68 (either 272kg 4 extra seats or 204kg is 3 extra)
P is the Maximum laden mass
M is the mass in running order (vehicle with >90% fuel including items as per manufacturers spec i.e. spare wheel/tools etc plus 75kg as standard driver weight
N is number of seats (*excluding driver*)

In the case of the Grand Cherokee, P=2795kg, M=2220kg, N=4 therefore 2795kg - 2492kg = 303kg (which is more than 4 x 68 (272) so qualifies on weight

2. Cargo area - If two rows of seats, loading aperture shall be at least 600mm (Jeep 737mm). The length of cargo area shall be 30% of wheelbase (Jeep 2781mm wheelbase and 940mm cargo length = 34%)

So, according to these criteria, the Jeep Grand Cherokee qualifies for N1 status as a 5 seat commercial.

Am I missing anything?

Av8or

Damn, misread the loadspace figures. If one row of seats, the minimum access height is 600mm. If two rows of seats, it's 800mm, so 740mm on the Jeep is outside the requirements :-(

BorneTobyWilde

Do estate cars qualify ? Something like a volvo v70 or a mercedes e320 estate. They have huge load area, much bigger than a jeep.

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Do estate cars qualify ? Something like a volvo v70 or a mercedes e320 estate. They have huge load area, much bigger than a jeep.

If a lot of SUV's fail on the loading aperture area, do you think estates will pass?

Av8or

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Do estate cars qualify ? Something like a volvo v70 or a mercedes e320 estate. They have huge load area, much bigger than a jeep.

Both of those would fail with the <800mm rear door opening height.

BorneTobyWilde

R.O.R wrote: »

If a lot of SUV's fail on the loading aperture area, do you think estates will pass?

Eh because an estate is 3 times as big as that little boot space on a range rover.....

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Eh because an estate is 3 times as big as that little boot space on a range rover.....

No it isn't. The Range Rover has a massive boot.

Range Rover - 909 litres
E320 estate - 695 litres
Volvo v70 - 575 litres.

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Eh because an estate is 3 times as big as that little boot space on a range rover.....

Loading aperture.

If you aren't sure what the words mean, Google is your friend.

BorneTobyWilde

A big opening but feck all room. So basically an Irish thing that one would see in no other country. Make it up as you go along rules to define what is ok and what is not.

A mercedes e300 estate w124 is 824mm . Would this suit.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A big opening but feck all room.

I posted numbers to completely rubbish what you are saying.

Also it's not just opening its height from the ground which all estates will fail on as they are far lower than an SUV.

osheen

Xzavier Flat Second wrote: »

I posted numbers to completely rubbish what you are saying.

Also it's not just opening its height from the ground which all estates will fail on as they are far lower than an SUV.

And thats why we cant get cheaper lr defender crew cabs - all down to the rear door :-(

BorneTobyWilde

http://www.adverts.ie/commercial-vans/merc-250-td-estate-commercial-333-tax/7500635

And the truth shall set you free.

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/commercial-vans/merc-250-td-estate-commercial-333-tax/7500635

And the truth shall set you free.

Because rules never change.....

BorneTobyWilde

R.O.R wrote: »

Because rules never change.....

And that is point I'm trying to make, the rules were made up, plucked from thin air . Its funny that in 2016 Ireland still has no clue about tax on vehicles.
Last year to tax a truck it could cost over 5k, some haulage firm challenged that in court and because of it all tax on semi trucks had to be dropped to 333.

Height, width ,litres.... only in Ireland.

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And that is point I'm trying to make, the rules were made up, plucked from thin air . Its funny that in 2016 Ireland still has no clue about tax on vehicles.
Last year to tax a truck it could cost over 5k, some haulage firm challenged that in court and because of it all tax on semi trucks had to be dropped to 333.

Height, width ,litres.... only in Ireland.

N1 classification, which the 5 seat Discovery, Pajero, Land cruiser and 4 seat Kuga fall under, is an EU vehicle classification.

Tax on trucks is not always 333, it depends on the unladen weight of the vehicle as to how much it costs to tax.

Any chance you'd do some research before posting utter bollocks as fact?

Av8or

Av8or wrote: »

Damn, misread the loadspace figures. If one row of seats, the minimum access height is 600mm. If two rows of seats, it's 800mm, so 740mm on the Jeep is outside the requirements :-(

I bought a Lancer off a garage that sells Jeeps, they sell 5 seat commercial Grand Cherokees new, I'm 99% sure anyway.

BorneTobyWilde

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And that is point I'm trying to make, the rules were made up, plucked from thin air . Its funny that in 2016 Ireland still has no clue about tax on vehicles.
Last year to tax a truck it could cost over 5k, some haulage firm challenged that in court and because of it all tax on semi trucks had to be dropped to 333.

Height, width ,litres.... only in Ireland.

If the Irish government had their way they wouldn't allow 5 seat commercials at all, they were forced to because it's an EU wide regulation and it's the EU that make the rules on height, width etc.

Av8or

The whole tax/commercial system is a pink elephant, and always has been. I've been caught up in this for years now. I originally imported a Land Rover Defender 130 crewcab (pick-up-style bed) and the VRT office deemed it commercial. The tax office, however, insisted it was private (5 seats - which, with a 4.6 litre V8 engine would have needed a mortgage to tax). I ended up putting it back on its old UK plates and used it under the radar for a year or so, when the rules changed yet again. I re-registered it in Ireland and paid commercial tax. Back to today, I have a LWB Mercedes Sprinter which our company use for goods and transporting staff (it has a number of removable seats) and it is *ONLY* used for commercial use (we are a VAT registered Limited company). PSV status is not an option, as we do not accept payment for travel and do not want to go down the road of having drivers PSV qualified. Hence, we are unable to tax this vehicle commercially. As you can imagine, this is frustrating when you see Cyril Ponsenby-Smythe commercially taxing his Range Rover Vogue Autobiography!

It is not a level playing field, and never probably will (and the rules are due to change again at the end of June).

mullingar

Augeo wrote: »

I bought a Lancer off a garage that sells Jeeps, they sell 5 seat commercial Grand Cherokees new, I'm 99% sure anyway.

Would it be a north Midlands establishment?

Av8or

Augeo wrote: »

I bought a Lancer off a garage that sells Jeeps, they sell 5 seat commercial Grand Cherokees new, I'm 99% sure anyway.

Certainly the WJ and WK models fail the opening height figure. Not so sure about the current WK2 models. The only number I could find from a US site is 31.2", which is still just shy of the necessary 800mm.

sword1

It is not a level playing field, and never probably will (and the rules are due to change again at the end of June).[/QUOTE]

European rules to change or Irish?

mullingar

mullingar wrote: »

Would it be a north Midlands establishment?

Nope, Cork City
http://www.danseamanmotors.ie/node/17749

Av8or

sword1 wrote: »

It is not a level playing field, and never probably will (and the rules are due to change again at the end of June).

European rules to change or Irish?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, started to research this, but couldn't find it. This was advised to me by two different crewcab conversion companies.

Gumbo

Revenue have already issued the tax offices with a list of cars that do not qualify. In Dublin if you try send in an E53 X5 for conversion to N1 they return it unprocessed straight away. It doesn't matter what cert or engineers report you have with it. They do allow 2 seater conversions of course.

The newer E70 X5 qualifies for 5 seater N1 as I found out this week.

BorneTobyWilde

kceire wrote: »

Revenue have already issued the tax offices with a list of cars that do not qualify. In Dublin if you try send in an E53 X5 for conversion to N1 they return it unprocessed straight away. It doesn't matter what cert or engineers report you have with it. They do allow 2 seater conversions of course.

The newer E70 X5 qualifies for 5 seater N1 as I found out this week.

https://www.donedeal.ie/commercials-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e-class-e320-cdi-crew-cab/12076578

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/commercials-for-sale/mercedes-benz-e-class-e320-cdi-crew-cab/12076578

And?

BorneTobyWilde

R.O.R wrote: »

And?

You said it would fail due to rear loading size.
Yet there it is ..

R.O.R

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

You said it would fail due to rear loading size.
Yet there it is ..

So, that was recently converted was it?

It was probably converted to a crew cab quite some time ago (it's not a new vehicle you see) when the rules and regulations were a bit more lax.

If you are convinced it would be OK to do the same again now, by all means, feel free to give it a go and let us know how you get on.

pcardin

what happens if I buy a Lexus RX or BMW old X5 that is already registred as crew cab and go to tax office to tax it, is there a risk that they might reject to tax as crew cab or I should be fine.

Ps. I do own a business and I am VAT registered.

Av8or

kceire wrote: »

Revenue have already issued the tax offices with a list of cars that do not qualify. In Dublin if you try send in an E53 X5 for conversion to N1 they return it unprocessed straight away. It doesn't matter what cert or engineers report you have with it. They do allow 2 seater conversions of course.

The newer E70 X5 qualifies for 5 seater N1 as I found out this week.

Does anyone on here have a copy of this alleged list?

The Sidewards Man

There is a place in Longford that will crew cab anything, measurements are irrelevant.

Gumbo

pcardin wrote: »

what happens if I buy a Lexus RX or BMW old X5 that is already registred as crew cab and go to tax office to tax it, is there a risk that they might reject to tax as crew cab or I should be fine.

Ps. I do own a business and I am VAT registered.

Yes. They will reject it on transfer of ownership seemly. Like the previous campaign on the 2 litre on the book brigade.

Av8or wrote: »

Does anyone on here have a copy of this alleged list?

Don't know if it's in public circulation but I can ask "my guy" inside the system. He's an AO in the section that deals with this.

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

There is a place in Longford that will crew cab anything, measurements are irrelevant.

There's loads of places that will do the measurements and issue you with the documentation, but once you send it to the tax office to change the class of vehicle, that's where it's rejected.